Why did Jesus drink wine?

[forrestkc]

Yes, Jesus drank wine but it wasn't wine like we know it. It was crushed grapes.

Yeah, crushed grapes that were then fermented until it turned to wine, stored, and probably aged for a while. It's not like they just cracked open a can of welches concentrate back then. Of course it was wine. People back then drank wine and beer like we drink coke or ice tea. There is nothing wrong at all with having a glass of wine or cold beer. Jesus drank wine because he probably liked it. They probably had a few rounds over the course of a dinner. That said, there is a difference between drinking a couple of glasses of wine or beer and getting stumbling drunk. The question is not how much a person drinks, its how they handle themselves when they drink. There are people who can drink 4 or 5 beers over the course of a night out with friends and always keep their composer, but there are also people who have a couple of drinks and make an horse's rear out of themselves. It is a sin when a person does not know their own limits.

[LossForWords]

I think some of you are right.

I don't think there is a problem with drinking, I think there is a problem when your drinking begins to impair your judgement and behavior.

Wow, ya know, this is the second thread I've mentioned this in...but I feel really light headed. My head actually feels too light, and my eyes are doing funny things. It's a really strange feeling. I'm going to go drink some sugary juice to see if that helps...

[minnow]

They probably had a few rounds over the course of a dinner. That said, there is a difference between drinking a couple of glasses of wine or beer and getting stumbling drunk.

Hence the accusations levelled against Jesus by those opposed to him, that he sinned by over-indulging (in both food and drink).

Luke 7:33-35 NASB

"For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, 'He has a demon!'

"The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!'

"Yet wisdom is vindicated by all her children."

How many people realise that gluttony is as sinful as drunkenness? Has alcohol become a "whipping boy", yet a blind eye is turned toward the seemingly more benign over-indulgence in food?

[Axxman]

Crushed grapes ferment and turn into wine. It doesn't take long for the process to occur. The only thing that stops the process of fermentation is Pasteurization, a process not developed until the mid-1800's. The result of is fruit juice.

Gotta chime in here. Grapes (crushed or otherwise) DO NOT naturally turn into wine. Fermentation is a process that requires time and ingredients. You cannot simply leave some crushed grapes out for a while and have wine one day. If you attempt this...all you will wind up with is rotten grapes.

At the time, the only choices available were water, wine and milk.

I believe this comment paints too narrow a picture. There were also tea's, and juices. Also all beverages in the 1st century could be mixed with a variety of honey (sugars), herbs, and flowers creating a WIDE range of varying flavors and choices. It is a flawed argument to say Jesus must have drank wine because he had no other choices.

[undone]

When Jesus tells the parable of the wine in new and old wineskins, He says that you would not put new wine into old wineskins. I believe this is because as the wine ferments, it expands and stretches the skin. When it becomes empty and if you were to put some more new wine in it (grape juice and whatever else is in it to make it ferment properly - possibly yeast?), the new wine would expand in the old skin that was already stretched. At some point the old skin will have reached its maximum stretching capacity and having already been stretched once, it would break the old wineskin. Therefore, it is reasonable to conclude that the wine they drank was fermented and had some amount of alcohol in it.

Also consider when Paul writes, "Be not drunk with wine, which leads to debauchery, but instead, be filled with the spirit of joy". You again have to assume there is alcohol in it to get drunk on and lead yourself to debauchery (acting foolish). Note that it did not say drinking wine leads to hell. Also, it suggests that alcohol is a depressant and keeps you from experiencing true joy.

Also, someone mentioned rotten wine, I believe this is vinegar isn't it?

[undone]

Plus, I think wine is a useful alternative to water that may contain a variety of unhealthy impurities in many cultures throughout the world.

[Axxman]

When Jesus tells the parable of the wine in new and old wineskins, He says that you would not put new wine into old wineskins. I believe this is because as the wine ferments, it expands and stretches the skin. When it becomes empty and if you were to put some more new wine in it (grape juice and whatever else is in it to make it ferment properly - possibly yeast?), the new wine would expand in the old skin that was already stretched. At some point the old skin will have reached its maximum stretching capacity and having already been stretched once, it would break the old wineskin. Therefore, it is reasonable to conclude that the wine they drank was fermented and had some amount of alcohol in it.

Also consider when Paul writes, "Be not drunk with wine, which leads to debauchery, but instead, be filled with the spirit of joy". You again have to assume there is alcohol in it to get drunk on and lead yourself to debauchery (acting foolish). Note that it did not say drinking wine leads to hell. Also, it suggests that alcohol is a depressant and keeps you from experiencing true joy.

Also, someone mentioned rotten wine, I believe this is vinegar isn't it?

Clearly, some "wine" in the first century was fermented. It would be ludicrous to suggest otherwise. However, it is just as ludicrous to assume that all "wine" is fermented. I would agree that in the parable of the wineskins Jesus is probably referring to fermented wine.

Plus, I think wine is a useful alternative to water that may contain a variety of unhealthy impurities in many cultures throughout the world.

First century Jerusalem had a fresh, constant supply of underground water. It was a renewable resource from the Gihon river. It is true, that in ancient times a small amount of wine would be mixed with water in order to limit impurities. Much like today, we add various chemicals to our water in order to make it drinkable...but no one would suggest that we go out and drink those chemicals. One could hardly make the case that adding 1 part of wine to 8-12 parts of water amounts to drinking alcohol, anymore than drinking water today is the same as drinking chlorine. Jerusalem was blessed with their vast water supply.

[undone]

When Jesus tells the parable of the wine in new and old wineskins, He says that you would not put new wine into old wineskins. I believe this is because as the wine ferments, it expands and stretches the skin. When it becomes empty and if you were to put some more new wine in it (grape juice and whatever else is in it to make it ferment properly - possibly yeast?), the new wine would expand in the old skin that was already stretched. At some point the old skin will have reached its maximum stretching capacity and having already been stretched once, it would break the old wineskin. Therefore, it is reasonable to conclude that the wine they drank was fermented and had some amount of alcohol in it.

Also consider when Paul writes, "Be not drunk with wine, which leads to debauchery, but instead, be filled with the spirit of joy". You again have to assume there is alcohol in it to get drunk on and lead yourself to debauchery (acting foolish). Note that it did not say drinking wine leads to hell. Also, it suggests that alcohol is a depressant and keeps you from experiencing true joy.

Also, someone mentioned rotten wine, I believe this is vinegar isn't it?

Clearly, some "wine" in the first century was fermented. It would be ludicrous to suggest otherwise. However, it is just as ludicrous to assume that all "wine" is fermented. I would agree that in the parable of the wineskins Jesus is probably referring to fermented wine.

Plus, I think wine is a useful alternative to water that may contain a variety of unhealthy impurities in many cultures throughout the world.

First century Jerusalem had a fresh, constant supply of underground water. It was a renewable resource from the Gihon river. It is true, that in ancient times a small amount of wine would be mixed with water in order to limit impurities. Much like today, we add various chemicals to our water in order to make it drinkable...but no one would suggest that we go out and drink those chemicals. One could hardly make the case that adding 1 part of wine to 8-12 parts of water amounts to drinking alcohol, anymore than drinking water today is the same as drinking chlorine. Jerusalem was blessed with their vast water supply.

Thanks Axxman!

[Guest lovinghim4ever]

I drink wine. I can have a glass a night for a week and then go months without one. Therefore, I have no personal conviction against drinking wine since it appears it doesn't control me or affect my witness.

I do not smoke. I can't just have one cigar; I'd be a chain-smoker. Therefore, I have a personal conviction against smoking since it would control me and negatively affect my witness for the Lord (and destroy my physical body).

We all experience different convictions, I believe, because different things affect us differently.

Drinking wine is not a sin. There is nothing wrong with an occassional glass of wine or even an occassional cigar. On the other hand, through excess, allowing those things to control you and remove your focus off of Christ is sinful.

If I could limit myself to one occassional cigar, I'd light up today. ...but I can't. ...so I don't.

Excellent post Wayne!

Everyone should live their lives according to their own convictions.

I believe it is okay for us to share our convictions as long as we don't try to force them on others.

If you are NOT convicted - drink wine; but not in excess as the Bible says.

If you ARE convicted - don't drink wine; but not in judgment as the Bible says.

If you are underage, then you should not drink wine, as it is against the law of the land.

If you are of age, then it is still against Scripture to get drunk.

Yes it is true that Jesus drank wine, but he also wore only sandals and walked everywhere He went. Would you wear nothing but sandals and use only you feet for transportion using the same argument? I would hope not!

[senerhu]

I don't have a problem with people drinking wine as long as it's not excessive. For those who think it wrong, I see nothing wrong with their beliefs...