In the beginning........

[Sconzy]

In the begining of what you see and don't see.... God was

[Openly Curious]

'hupo'

While going over the Old Testament I came across the first verse (yet again) and was stopped dead in my tracks by a question.....

Gen 1:1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

In the beginning of what?

In the "beginning" God created the "heavens" and the "earth"

This is a very interesting verse with many more that follows it in the word. You have to understand first that at one time the world that we live in did not exist. That being the case our world had to have a starting place hence the beginning. And in the beginning of our world God created first the heavens. Now the heavens it refers to here is God's abode the place in which He and His angelic host resides. God's abode is part of our world and God created the place where He resides at first that is where He started at our world as He simply began with that. There are actually 3 heavens that are taught in the word and the third heaven is God's abode.

Then it says that God created the earth this was the place where God created for mankind to dwell at but at this time the earth was without form and void as water was upon the face of the deep that is how it looked until God created further and as the earth was covered in water the spirit of God brooded over the waters of the face of the deep wanting to create something out of nothing. And so God starting speaking things into existence as you can further read on and it happened.

Then you can read on if I'm not mistaken in chapter 2 of Genesis that it tell us that this was the "record" of the generations in which God had created everything that He did and that basically He had given this record to us of the Beginning of our world so that we would know that it was God who created it and in what order that he did it.

OC

[hupo]

Just when did God create and make the material universe?

The Bible says that the heavens cannot be measured and the host of heaven cannot be counted (Jer. 31:37; 33:22-25). If this is true then the material universe is vast beyond conception, and as God has existed from all eternity it is also hard to concieve that He only decided a few millenniums ago to do something.

In answer to this question the Bible tells us that, "In the beginning [literally, by periods or ages] God created the heaven [Hebrew, heavens] and the earth," it does not say "Six thousand years ago God created the heavens and the earth," as is generally taught by man. Does anyone know just when the beginning was? If anyone does know, then they know more than God as revealed. If no one knows just when the beginning was then it stands to reason that we just do not know and therefore, we should not teach that the beginning was 6,000 years ago. As far as any man knows it could have been six billion years ago.

When we speak of the six days and the creation of the present life in Earth, we can speak with definate authority that it was 6,000 years ago. This can be seen by the lengths of the various dispensations since Adam.

Some teachers use Exodus 20:8-11; 31:17 to prove that the heavens and the Earth were created in the six days of Gen. 1:3-2:25, and therefore, that they were created about 6,000 years ago. However, nothing is said of the original creation of the heavens and the Earth in these passages. In these Scriptures the Hebrew, asah, meaning to make out of already existing material, is used instead of the word bara, to creat. These verses picture the re-creation work of the six days, and not the original creation "In the beginning." Asah never means to create.

Undoubtedly, God created and made the different parts of the material universe and each thing therein, using the same care as in the six days when He restored the planet Earth to a habitable state and made a new order of Earth creatures, after its destruction and ruin caused by the first war ever fought. This war was a cataclismic battle between God and Satan, when Lucifer invaded Heaven to cast God out. Satan was defeated and cast back down to the Earth, as is written in Isa. 14:12-14; Luke 10:18. This war was fought long before the days of Adam, for Lucifer was already a fallen creature when he came into Adams Eden. For an unknown period, there was an original social system on this Earth ruled by Lucifer as proved in (Isa. 14:12-14; 45:18; Jer. 4:23-26; Ezek. 28:11-17; 2 Pet. 3:5-7). Along with this origional social system there were land animals, birds, fish, and other creatures created, and they were destroyed in the flood of Gen. 1:2; Ps. 104:5-9; 2 Pet. 3:5-7. It is to this period that all fossils and remains of animals belong, as well as geological formations of the Earth.

Between these original creation's of God, "In the beginning' and the creations of the six days, is revealed the rule of Lucifer on the earth for an unknown period, his rebellion against God, the Earth's first sinful career, the defeat of Lucifer by God, and the overthrow of his kingdom by the first recorded flood on the earth in Gen. 1:2. Lucifer was the first ruler on the earth and he already had his period of Earth rule and his fall by the time of Adam.

In the work of the six days, it is stated that God with His hands FORMED each of the living creatures and man out of the dust of the ground (Gen. 1:20-27; 2:7-25; Job 26:13; Rom. 9:20; 1 Tim. 2:13). It is not only clear that God created the heavens and the Earth and all things "In the beginning," or each in its own period, but it is also clear the God FORMED all things with His hands. God formed both light anddarkness (Isa. 24:7). He did not do this on the first day of Gen 1:3-5, for at that time He merely DIVIDED them. Therefore THEY MUST HAVE BEEN CREATED AND FORMED before the first day. It is also stated that God with His hands FORMED the Earth (Ps. 8:3, 6; 90:2; 95:5); the heavens (Ps. 8:3; 9:1; 102:25; Isa. 40:12; the planets (Ps.8:3; Isa. 40:26; 45:12; 48:13; Heb. 1:10) and all things (Prov. 26:10). From a study of all these Scriptures and those on the creation af all things, it is clear that by the Word of God the materials were brought into existence, and then by His hands God formed the materials into the various parts of the universe. That is, as God spoke, the materials came into existence and as fast as they materialized He used them to form all things with His hands. (Ps. 8:3; 2 Pet. 3:3-9; Prov. 26:10).

Judging from what was done by God in six days, it took God a long time to originnaly create or bring into existence the material and use it to form with His hands each sun, moon, star, planet, and each creature that inhabits the vast endless universe. God took one day to merly divide the light from the darkness on this little planet Earth. How much time He originally took to bring into existence all the light and darkness of the entire universe is not known, but evidently He took a longer time than one day. God took one day to divide the waters which covered the Earth and restore the firmament and took one day to restore the earth and set bounds to the seas, therefore He naturally took a much longer period to originally bring the materials into existence and form the waters, the firmament, and the earth with its many mountains and valleys. God took one day to complete solar regulation in connection with the restored Earth, but He evidently used a much longer period to originally bring into existence and formwith His own hands the vast heavens and all the suns, moons, stars, and planets that are without number. God took two days to form the fish, fowls, beasts,, man and woman. He naturally took a much longer period to originally creat and form each inhabitant of the vast heavens and the many animals and inhabitants who originally lived on the Earth during Lucifer's kingdom, long before the chaos of Gen 1:2 and the six days of Gen.1:3-2-25.

In other words, if God took six days to restore one little planet to a habitable state and form new inhabitants for the earth, He would naturally take a much longer time to originally create and form with His hands the vast universe with all of its innumerable suns and planets along with their inhabitants.

From all above I understnd that it took God more than just six days to create the world.

There is no argument there. It could be 6, 6000 or 6,000,000 for all I know.

Yet, whatever time it took, it had to start somewhere, or the word "begining" has no meaning.

In the beginning is a point in time (however far back) that before it..... there was nothing. This is what seperates a finite object from an infinite one.

Earth, heaven and all of God's creation, are finite objects. Not eternal. While God Himself IS eternal. God has no beginning and no end. God always was and always will be.

So my bottom line here is that Earth has a beginning.

Is this the "beginning" refered to in Gen 1:1 ?

Regarding time, Scripture teaches that eternity is made up of time and that time shall not cease. There is a time and a season for everything done under the sun (Eccl. 3). God originally made the sun, moon, and starsto regulate times and seasons on the eternal Earth. The work of day four was the permanent restoration of the solar system in connection with the restored Earth, to divide the day from the night; and to be for signs and for sseasons, and for days and years forever (Gen. 1:14-18). This solar regulation causing eternal time on the Earth is eternal: "They shall fear thee as long as the sun and moon endure, throughout all generations . . . .His name shall endure for ever: His name shall be continued as long as the sun" (Ps. 72: 5 and 17); "I have sworn unot David my servant, Thy seed will I establish for ever . . . . his throne as the days of Heaven . . . . as the sun before me. It shall be established forever as the moon" (Ps. 89:4, 27-37).

God promised Noah that there would be day and night, summer and winter, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, forever on the Earth (Gen. 8:22).

The Earth is eternal; so time made up of seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, and years is also eternal (Eccl. 1:4; Ps. 104:5). When the Bible says "There shall be no lnight there" it speaks of the city, the New Jerusalem, and not the Earth outside of the city (Rev. 21:23-27).

We are in eternity now. As we have seen in the above Scriptures, eternity has always existed for God has always existed from everlasting to everlasting (Ps. 41:13).

"For thus saith the high and lofty ONE that inhabiteth eternity, who's name is Holy . . . "(Isa. 57:15), and eternity will be made up of time as we now know it; so if time continues eternally as it is now, in the sense of being eternal time we are now in eternity. We do not mean by this that we are now in our eternal state, for that will not be true until we enter into immortality (1 Cor. 15:51-58; Phil. 3:20-21). But we can truly say that we are in time that will be eternal and that we are in part of eternity now.

Just what God did in the eternal dateless past no one knows, for He has not revealed His activities from all eternity past (Deut. 29:29). All we know is that God existed from all eternity, and that sometime in the dateless past God brought into being the heavens and the earth and all things originally made therein.

That God existed from all eternity is very clear in Scripture: "Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hast formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God" (Ps. 90:2). "Thy throne is established of old; thou art from everlasting" (Ps.93:2; Prov. 8:22-31; Micah 5:2; Heb. 9:14; John 1:1-3; Rev. 1:4-8; 4:8; 22:5, 13).

If God is from the eternal past, which is time past, and God, man, and the Earth will continue into the eternal future, then continued time, which is time from now on into eternity, then we can say time has always existed with God, or there would be no mentioning of time eternal "past."

God is from everlasting to everlasting. Everlasting what? Everlasting time of course.

You say Earth is eternal? Time is eternal? (please forgive me if I got this wrong).

If God is eternal. Earth is eternal andTime is eternal. It follows that God = Time = Earth, otherwise there are (at least) three entities out there in eternity.

We know God is the only thing that is forever, that is infinite so there cannot be anything else apart from God out there in eternity.

So again... God = Earth = Time?

Are they one and the same or are they distinct seperate entities?

It says "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God" (John 1)

But in this case the Word had no beginning, it is eternal, it was already there at the beginning, it didn't start there.....

The Word IS God.....

Are the Earth and Time also God?

You know, this is very interesting as I am now in a long debate with Jehova's Witness's who as you may know believe that God the father is the only true God while His son Yeshua is very high, 2nd only to God but is NOT God Himself. I totally disagree with that view but the above discussion could point to directions such as JW see it. I need to be very clear that God the Father, Yeshua the Son and the Holy spirit are all One. One God appearing as three seperate personalities. The whole Trinity revolves around this issue.

Blessinsg in Yeshua

[hupo]

In the "beginning" God created the "heavens" and the "earth"

This is a very interesting verse with many more that follows it in the word. You have to understand first that at one time the world that we live in did not exist. That being the case our world had to have a starting place hence the beginning. And in the beginning of our world God created first the heavens. Now the heavens it refers to here is God's abode the place in which He and His angelic host resides. God's abode is part of our world and God created the place where He resides at first that is where He started at our world as He simply began with that. There are actually 3 heavens that are taught in the word and the third heaven is God's abode.

Then it says that God created the earth this was the place where God created for mankind to dwell at but at this time the earth was without form and void as water was upon the face of the deep that is how it looked until God created further and as the earth was covered in water the spirit of God brooded over the waters of the face of the deep wanting to create something out of nothing. And so God starting speaking things into existence as you can further read on and it happened.

Then you can read on if I'm not mistaken in chapter 2 of Genesis that it tell us that this was the "record" of the generations in which God had created everything that He did and that basically He had given this record to us of the Beginning of our world so that we would know that it was God who created it and in what order that he did it.

OC

Maybe I'm not making myself clear...... and maybe you should scratch the "maybe"

Everything finite has to have bounderies or it isn't finite.

"Beginning" and "End" are boundries, limits.

If we go by scripture, it says.... In the beginning God created the....Earth.

Earth has a beginning so it is finite.

God is Infinite = Eternal = everlasting = omnipresent........

So logically God and Earth are not the same........... right?

Now..... If God is omnipresent it means He is everywhere (and all the time of course)

If Earth and God are not the same it means there is something (Earth) that is apart from God.

This in turn means that God is NOT everything..........

So God is NOT everywhere?

Whatever seperates an object from God, causes the existance of two (or more) entities

Two entities means God is NOT all entities....there is something else.....

Now I know (somehow) that God is everything !!

What I don't know is how to sort this paradox out

Can anyone do that for me?

Blessings in God our eternal and ONLY God

[caldog]

In the beginning of what

In the beginning of the physical universe. God was already in the beginning. In the beginning the Word already was. Edited July 9, 2007 by caldog

[nebula]

Now..... If God is omnipresent it means He is everywhere (and all the time of course)

If Earth and God are not the same it means there is something (Earth) that is apart from God.

This in turn means that God is NOT everything..........

So God is NOT everywhere?

Whatever seperates an object from God, causes the existance of two (or more) entities

Two entities means God is NOT all entities....there is something else.....

I think sometimes we can get so caught up in our definitions that we miss the point of the message.

Here is some food for thought:

Is God in the heart of the unbeliever?

[Sconzy]

Is God in the heart of the unbeliever?

[Openly Curious]

In the "beginning" God created the "heavens" and the "earth"

This is a very interesting verse with many more that follows it in the word. You have to understand first that at one time the world that we live in did not exist. That being the case our world had to have a starting place hence the beginning. And in the beginning of our world God created first the heavens. Now the heavens it refers to here is God's abode the place in which He and His angelic host resides. God's abode is part of our world and God created the place where He resides at first that is where He started at our world as He simply began with that. There are actually 3 heavens that are taught in the word and the third heaven is God's abode.

Then it says that God created the earth this was the place where God created for mankind to dwell at but at this time the earth was without form and void as water was upon the face of the deep that is how it looked until God created further and as the earth was covered in water the spirit of God brooded over the waters of the face of the deep wanting to create something out of nothing. And so God starting speaking things into existence as you can further read on and it happened.

Then you can read on if I'm not mistaken in chapter 2 of Genesis that it tell us that this was the "record" of the generations in which God had created everything that He did and that basically He had given this record to us of the Beginning of our world so that we would know that it was God who created it and in what order that he did it.

OC

Maybe I'm not making myself clear...... and maybe you should scratch the "maybe"

Everything finite has to have bounderies or it isn't finite.

"Beginning" and "End" are boundries, limits.

If we go by scripture, it says.... In the beginning God created the....Earth.

Earth has a beginning so it is finite.

God is Infinite = Eternal = everlasting = omnipresent........

So logically God and Earth are not the same........... right?

Now..... If God is omnipresent it means He is everywhere (and all the time of course)

If Earth and God are not the same it means there is something (Earth) that is apart from God.

This in turn means that God is NOT everything..........

So God is NOT everywhere?

Whatever seperates an object from God, causes the existance of two (or more) entities

Two entities means God is NOT all entities....there is something else.....

Now I know (somehow) that God is everything !!

What I don't know is how to sort this paradox out

Can anyone do that for me?

Blessings in God our eternal and ONLY God

Perhaps it's called "GRAVITY"

OC

[hupo]

I think sometimes we can get so caught up in our definitions that we miss the point of the message.

I very much agree with you and that is why I wrote in my original post.....

I must emphesize once again that anything said here has no effect whatsoever on The Truth

So that we can now relax, not be afraid of ruining God's plans, and just have fun 24.gif

Here is some food for thought:

Is God in the heart of the unbeliever?

Hi Nebula,

I do like to try new food and yours seems quite tasty

Good question

Blessings to you

[HAZARD]

Scripture shows that God is eternal, no beginning, no end, and that time is eternal, and also that the Earth had a beginning, that is when God started to creat it, and the Earth will continue on into eternity past. Scripture also shows that in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God (John 1:1).

Who can show which "In the beginning," is a different time factor?

"In the beginning was the Word," (John 1;1) and "In the beginning God created." (Gen. 1:1). Why would one have a beginning and the other not. Which "in the beginning" has a beginning, and which has an endless eternity past?

The Word was with God. And all things were made by Him; and without Him was not anything made that was made." (John 1:1-3)? Can we figure this out by ourselves?