Family Out of Order

[Openly Curious]

Ok lets take this a little farther. I would surmise that not only are the roles of the family messed up but God gives us marriage as an example of the relationship for Jesus and his church. I would also surmise that some of our churches have the relationship messed up as well. What is Gods plan for headship of His church. His example of a marriage is also his plan for his church. When we mess up one we are likely to mess up the other.

God Bless,

K.D.

Yes, families are messed up. Sin is the primary culprit.

Marriage was not given as an example of Christ and the church, that is misreading Scripture. Marriage is given for companionship. Reread Genesis. Husbands don't need to play God toward their wives and wives don't need to inordinately idolize their husbands. Such is not good for either one. If you will reread Ephesians 5 you will hopefully see that vs. 30-32 was reflecting on Christs great love for the church, portraying it to have the intimacy and unity similar to what should be in a godly marriage.

Church order is not similar to a marriage. Any self respecting man is going to walk out of a church that says the pastor is like a husband to his congretation. And a marriage relationship should not be like a church with husband as pastor (or priest) and wife along with the children his congregation. The two relationships, church and marriage, are not similar or comparable. Only Christ is our husband and that has nothing to do with church organization.

Now you can throw tomatoes if you like. I'm thinking of making a hearty stew today anyway. Pitch to the left so you don't hit the cat.

Marriage is symbolic of the relationship between Christ and the Church. It is not misreading scripture to say so either. The intimacy I have with my husband and I am not talking about a sexual relationship with him here either but one on one communion and fellowship with him that is so close and intimate as I can share with him just about everything and I know it is alright to be that close to him in our relationship as I trust him. We as children of God can also have that same intimacy and fellowship with our Lord as we pray and walk and talk with God in holy union with Him. Marriage is a picture portrayal of Christ and the Church unless one wants to remain blind to it and in that case one misses out on a whole lot.

I think it is ridiculous of you to compare the husband of a marriage relationship to the pastor or the priest of the church for the pastor of a church is not the "HEAD" of the church for that is "Jesus Christ" alone in which the whole family submits unto in the house of worship. God has his leaders in place but they do not ever take the headship of the church away from Christ.

The church is Christ body and His body is a "living organism" and as such it has to be governed with church organization the same way with the family it is a living body that also has to be structured and run less you have chaos in the home and in the church.

So I strongly disagree with your opinions on these matters.

OC

[methinkshe]

Ruth,

Please note that I added: "And for what it is worth, I was not using it in that sense, but rather in the sense of being reactionary, hard lined, unthinking throw-the-weight-around sort of approach instead of hearing, listening and respectful discourse."

I also apologized and said that I will not use the term again.

Is there anything else that I can do (within reason) to make this better.

Yes, dear brother, there's lot's you can do, and it begins with allowing that we peasants are not entirely ignorant. We may not know the Hebrew or the Greek or the grammar or the full stops or how to measure the dill and the cumin, but hey, what is it that liberates? The letter of the law or the spirit of the law? You see, when the likes of you and inhistime and firehill begin to pontificate upon the letter of the law, those of us who by default have to rely on the spirit of the law become confounded. Therefore you becone to us like the Pharisees - you actually prevent us from entering into the kingdom.

But thank you for asking, I appreciate the humility that allowed you to ask me to express what is on my heart.

In Jesus

Ruth

[exrockstar]

i am totally confused on where this topic is heading.

not sure if im getting whats going on but apparently pastors are married to their congregation (or something).

*scratches head*

[OopsMartin]

I think it is ridiculous of you to compare the husband of a marriage relationship to the pastor or the priest of the church for the pastor of a church is not the "HEAD" of the church for that is "Jesus Christ" alone in which the whole family submits unto in the house of worship. God has his leaders in place but they do not ever take the headship of the church away from Christ.

I agree. I wasn

[OopsMartin]

Ruth,

Please note that I added: "And for what it is worth, I was not using it in that sense, but rather in the sense of being reactionary, hard lined, unthinking throw-the-weight-around sort of approach instead of hearing, listening and respectful discourse."

I also apologized and said that I will not use the term again.

Is there anything else that I can do (within reason) to make this better.

Yes, dear brother, there's lot's you can do, and it begins with allowing that we peasants are not entirely ignorant. We may not know the Hebrew or the Greek or the grammar or the full stops or how to measure the dill and the cumin, but hey, what is it that liberates? The letter of the law or the spirit of the law? You see, when the likes of you and inhistime and firehill begin to pontificate upon the letter of the law, those of us who by default have to rely on the spirit of the law become confounded. Therefore you becone to us like the Pharisees - you actually prevent us from entering into the kingdom.

But thank you for asking, I appreciate the humility that allowed you to ask me to express what is on my heart.

In Jesus

Ruth

Your honesty is appreciated. And I will not forget.

[Kansasdad]

Ok lets take this a little farther. I would surmise that not only are the roles of the family messed up but God gives us marriage as an example of the relationship for Jesus and his church. I would also surmise that some of our churches have the relationship messed up as well. What is Gods plan for headship of His church. His example of a marriage is also his plan for his church. When we mess up one we are likely to mess up the other.

God Bless,

K.D.

Yes, families are messed up. Sin is the primary culprit.

Marriage was not given as an example of Christ and the church, that is misreading Scripture. Marriage is given for companionship. Reread Genesis. Husbands don't need to play God toward their wives and wives don't need to inordinately idolize their husbands. Such is not good for either one. If you will reread Ephesians 5 you will hopefully see that vs. 30-32 was reflecting on Christs great love for the church, portraying it to have the intimacy and unity similar to what should be in a godly marriage.

Church order is not similar to a marriage. Any self respecting man is going to walk out of a church that says the pastor is like a husband to his congretation. And a marriage relationship should not be like a church with husband as pastor (or priest) and wife along with the children his congregation. The two relationships, church and marriage, are not similar or comparable. Only Christ is our husband and that has nothing to do with church organization.

Now you can throw tomatoes if you like. I'm thinking of making a hearty stew today anyway. Pitch to the left so you don't hit the cat.

I think you miss understand me,

Eph. 5:22-24

[exrockstar]

Marriage is symbolic of the relationship between Christ and the Church.

31

[Emily~Anne]

I agree with you to a large extent exrockstar. But I would say that the husband should be the primary protector and provider of the family. In this way we define the sacrificial and respectful behavior that Scripture outlines instead of using a term that can be used positively or badly depending on the inclinations of the user. It is also less effective to take a red neck approach to these things. People pick wrong all the time, but we don't need to beat them up again over it. That isn't our job as Christians.

Oopsmartin, I would like to ask you a question. Which do you believe is more important to God, obedience or sacrifice?

[Kansasdad]

Marriage is symbolic of the relationship between Christ and the Church.

31

[tsth]

Dear oopsM,

I am curious. What do you think the term "head of" means, if not an implemented role of order that God designates.

1 Cor. 11:3 Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God

Eph. 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.

Col. 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.

(Since you don't believe that the term has to do with authority, what does it mean/instruct?)

In His Love,

Suzanne