Women pastors

[st. Worm]

i think oprah would make a good pastor.

Exactly, an unbeliever who wants to do things her own way - typical woman pastor.

Excuse me, Worm, but are you saying the typical female pastor is an unbeliever who wants to do things her own way? Oh....yeah...I see. You DID say that! What do you base this on??? Whether there SHOULD be female pastors or not, this is very offensive to the woman who preach the Word. Typical male intolerance. (Oh, did that make me sound as biased as you??? )

A harsh generalization? Perhaps but it thoroughly sickens me what these feminists have done to destroy some very large denominations. I could care less if I offend them. I assure you they offend me much more with their support for things like abortion and gnosticism. But of course we must be politically correct and not speak out against them.

sw

Blame it all on "feminists". And then call anyone who disagrees with you an evil feminist. Ahh good plan.

There just couldn't possibly be good reasons who so many good Christian scholars are rereading these Scriptures studiously and coming up with questions about the "traditional" popular interpretation. No of course not. Ther're all feminists, the whole lot...... oh and liberal to boot.

Oh, almost forgot, then claim that all these evil feminists (because they disagree with you) must believe in abortion on demand, and are also gnostics

[firehill]

Here's something interesting on Galatians:

http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/07/09/ar...ust-like-males/

Here Paul says that there is neither slave nor free, neither male nor female. What is Paul saying? We need to research to find out because if we only take this as salvation then we have a problem. There was no difference between male and female in salvation. Female

[firehill]

Really what do 12 Jewish apostles have to do with a woman being a pastor? Jesus came to the Jewish people first and the 12 represent the 12 tribes of Isreal. No contradiction here then with Junia being an apostle.

An Apostle like Paul comes with authority within the church. It would be impossible for Junia (if a female) to carry that type of authority according to what Paul has already said about church authority. Therefore she could not be an Apostle like the 12.

sw

Really? Well then perhaps you can tell me what he said about church authority. Give some scripture to back up what you're saying about church AUTHORITY.

You cannot be serious. I am not going to repeat what I have posted earlier in this thread. In addition to those, read Paul's qualifications for elder. Good grief.

sw

Yeah and Paul begins by saying that if ANYONE aspires to be an overseer... Notice Paul is not saying if any male aspires...

[firehill]

Just reposting:

Too I'd have to ask, how does 'they' (original Greek, like 'a woman') come into play? What is Paul saying about 'a woman' (meaning 'women' according to you) by v.15? 'She' (original Greek whci refers back to 'a woman' which stands for all women according to what your saying) will be saved through ...if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.' He can't say that 'she' will be saved through...if women continue in faith....etc. because that is grammaticaly impossible.

Paul is reverting back to the plural that he started with in verses 9 and 10. It means "women will be saved . . . if they continue . . . "

'She' refers back to Eve, but Eve is the prototypical woman (singular) here so she represents all women (plural). This further explains why Paul can switch from singular to plural in verse 15.

If 'they' included the woman's husband (as it has been suggested in this forum), then the woman's salvation would depend on her husband's continuing in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.

-Neopatriarch

...So then my next question could be, IF Paul means 'all women' by 'a woman' (and for all time by 'I do not allow'...) because of the reason you give above then '13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.', means what? So based on those satatements, also I'd ask, what is Paul linking Adam being created first to? And I'd also ask, what is Paul linking Eve's creation after Adam to? What has he ACTUALY linked the order of creation to in those verses, 13 & 14?

Thanks for answering to my second paragraph but I noticed that you didn't answer my first which I posted above. Before you can claim or interpret that Paul is reverting back to the plural of v.10 by using 'they' in v.15 BECAUSE 'she' (as you claim) refers to Eve as the prototypical woman you need to answer to what link Paul makes between Eve being created after Adam. Since you are using ' vv.13 & 14, '13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.', as the bases for your interpretation of 'she' and 'they' therefore you need to FIRST take what Paul is saying about Adam and Eve and then go from there. So again I ask you, what link does Paul make between Adam being created first then Eve? The links are STATED by Paul.

Once it is understood and accepted what links he is STATING then we can see whether or not it is true that he is actualy reverting back to the plural of v.10 by using 'they' based on your interpretation that 'she' refers back to Eve as the prototypical woman (thereby 'she' means 'woman'). Also if then 'she' means Eve which means 'woman' then the grammar still doesn't line up with 'they' otherwise Paul is saying essentialy, woman will be saved through...if women continue....

[MorningGlory]

Nearly all these denominations (ELCA, PCUSA, and others) have fallen into various forms of apostasy, feminism, gnosticism and unbelief. Nearly all are on the verge of ordination of homosexuals. Nearly all have replaced the doctrine of justification and the gospel with a feel good social gospel, a politically correct agenda and liberal politics. All of those practices are the direct result of ordaining women and placing them in positions of church authority. Is this spirit of the anti-Christ so strong in you that you just ignore the reality of where women pastors and church leaders have taken so many?

By ordaining women pastors, in your opinion, all of these churches have turned from the Word? I would have to say that the one denomination that has NO female priests or bishops is the one with the biggest problems today. Would you care to guess which one? BTW, what do liberal politics have to do with the church???

You are completely wrong if you think Rome is in nearly as bad a shape as denominations like ELCA. And liberal politics play a strong role with these denominations with their embracing abortion and homosexual issues. It is no coincidence that their problems started with the ordination of women.

sw

I don't think any Christian church is embracing abortion, worm; gays in the priesthood? Yes, some do. But you can't blame all of these problems on feminists. I'd think the gay agenda has something to do with it. I would contend that I'm right when I say the Vatican has tremendous problems and has for years. The scandals just keep on coming. I'm still trying to get my head around what 'liberal politics' have to do with women being pastors. Go figure.

[OopsMartin]

I don't think any Christian church is embracing abortion, worm; gays in the priesthood? Yes, some do. But you can't blame all of these problems on feminists. I'd think the gay agenda has something to do with it. I would contend that I'm right when I say the Vatican has tremendous problems and has for years. The scandals just keep on coming. I'm still trying to get my head around what 'liberal politics' have to do with women being pastors. Go figure.

You know the troubles in the Vatican with horrible sexual sins is another very sad story. And alot of this can be attributed to adding a restriction to the ministry of priest (shouldn't be priests anyway, should be ministers/pastors) that was never portrayed in Scripture.

[Scarletprayers]

I don't think any Christian church is embracing abortion, worm; gays in the priesthood? Yes, some do. But you can't blame all of these problems on feminists. I'd think the gay agenda has something to do with it. I would contend that I'm right when I say the Vatican has tremendous problems and has for years. The scandals just keep on coming. I'm still trying to get my head around what 'liberal politics' have to do with women being pastors. Go figure.

You know the troubles in the Vatican with horrible sexual sins is another very sad story. And alot of this can be attributed to adding a restriction to the ministry of priest (shouldn't be priests anyway, should be ministers/pastors) that was never portrayed in Scripture.

Well will wonders never cease, I agree............the restriction against Priest/Nuns marrying is clearly wrong according to scripture.

[OopsMartin]

I don't think any Christian church is embracing abortion, worm; gays in the priesthood? Yes, some do. But you can't blame all of these problems on feminists. I'd think the gay agenda has something to do with it. I would contend that I'm right when I say the Vatican has tremendous problems and has for years. The scandals just keep on coming. I'm still trying to get my head around what 'liberal politics' have to do with women being pastors. Go figure.

You know the troubles in the Vatican with horrible sexual sins is another very sad story. And alot of this can be attributed to adding a restriction to the ministry of priest (shouldn't be priests anyway, should be ministers/pastors) that was never portrayed in Scripture.

Well will wonders never cease, I agree............the restriction against Priest/Nuns marrying is clearly wrong according to scripture.

yes, CLEARLY to us. But look how long they have been convinced they are correct and using Scripture.

Forgot about the Nuns. Of course history has it that some became Nuns to escape men. We don't hear nearly as much sexual sin going on with the Nuns as the Priests. Such things are so sad that so many have had to live under this wrong ruling and suffered with it.

[Scarletprayers]

I don't think any Christian church is embracing abortion, worm; gays in the priesthood? Yes, some do. But you can't blame all of these problems on feminists. I'd think the gay agenda has something to do with it. I would contend that I'm right when I say the Vatican has tremendous problems and has for years. The scandals just keep on coming. I'm still trying to get my head around what 'liberal politics' have to do with women being pastors. Go figure.

You know the troubles in the Vatican with horrible sexual sins is another very sad story. And alot of this can be attributed to adding a restriction to the ministry of priest (shouldn't be priests anyway, should be ministers/pastors) that was never portrayed in Scripture.

Well will wonders never cease, I agree............the restriction against Priest/Nuns marrying is clearly wrong according to scripture.

yes, CLEARLY to us. But look how long they have been convinced they are correct and using Scripture.

Forgot about the Nuns. Of course history has it that some became Nuns to escape men. We don't hear nearly as much sexual sin going on with the Nuns as the Priests. Such things are so sad that so many have had to live under this wrong ruling and suffered with it.

check back a few centries you'll find plenty sexual sin going on...........there are plenty of other reasons why women become nuns that have nothing to do with "men" so please lets don't even go there.

[irishcowboy]

joyce meyers is very good.she reaches a lot of people because she is "down to earth".your loss if you don't like her!

She puts on a self gratifying show about her idea of the "Christian life" (whatever that is) not to mention her endorsement of WOF teachers. Run the other way.

what was it that Christ said about those that were casting out demons and healing people in the Name of Jesus, when his disciples querried him and said they had rebuked them, for they were not walking in the group that was with Christ???

did not Christ say that if they are not against us, then they are for us?????

is Joyce Meyers against us? or is she against Christ????

Who actually ordains a person to Go out to the Corners of the Earth and Share the Gosple to ALL Nations?

and WHO is the Great Commission Directed at?

Who gives the Words to speak?

and which males are going to be call DAUGHTERS, of the Sons and Daughters that will be prophecying?

we can go on all day long....

first off....

not all "denominations" that have female ministers in their midst want homosexual ministers....

I know of one female minister, that was doing street preaching almost 100 years ago ( some where around the 1920's ) she is still alive today and still ministers to those around her.

the question should really be (not if women should be preaching) but rather, Who Is Really Doing The Preaching?

is it the man behind the pulpit? or the woman behind the pulpit?

or

is it the Holy Spirit doing the preaching through the man or woman behind the pulpit?

as was stated earlier in this thread when talking about Deborah, that God will use a woman when there is not a man to step up into the position.....

what has happened to our MEN??????

for those that do not believe a woman needs to be or should be or is totally out of line by being behind the pulpit, then maybe it is time those people step up and take over the positions....

i have been to fellowships where a woman was not even allowed to speak during a service (tongues, interpretation, or prophecy, as well as give a testimony) and the only place a woman could work in the church was cleaning, secretary, or nursary and childrens sunday school up to 5th or 6th grade, after that it was the mans job.....

what really got me, was they were always short handed for classes above 6th grade, and they never had enough workers for ushers and such either.... yet the ratio of men to women was almost a perfect 50 :50 split.....

have been to fellowships where they would down right get nasty about other fellowships that had a woman pastor, yet that woman pastor preached the Word of God, Preached the Gosple of Christ, where the other fellowships were tickling the ear....... she received flack from many many many many people, the town leaders, the deacons and trustees from other fellowships yet she kept preaching the Gosple.... one day at a town counsel meeting, she was physically hit by an elder from another fellowship, the police arrested him for battery, and she had them drop the charges and forgave him..... that man was the main instigator that got her chased out of town.....

if a woman will preach the Gosple, with the Annointing of God, I will listen...... i will judge her words by the WORD, to ensure she is teaching The Word of God....

no different then if a man is preaching the Gosple with the Annointing of God.... if they are preaching tickle my ear stuff, i do not want anything to do with them....

a lot of what people see, they become envious of, and will not step out.... those that preach the Gosple, are stepping out.... if they become blessed in doing so, i do not have a problem with that....

there is an "Unauthorized" fellowship here in this town, when it went before the city board, the board said no.... their dicission was made before the meeting ever took place.... they disapproved this fellowship from starting, saying there are enough churches in this town and they do not want another..... unfortunately, there was no tape recording at this peticular meeting, and the minutes were very poor.... this fellowship is still operating, and has been for the last year and half... if the city decides to come against it, then the ACLJ will have their hand in it, if not then it will continue to operate until the Lord says other wise, a male and a female (husband wife) minister team (both ordained) were given the oportunity by God......

people can argue both ways about male and female ministers/pastors..... and they can for years and years, but because of the thick skulls neither will bend and the arguement will never be completed....

there is a main line church denomination in Wichita Kansas, that has an upstanding citizen in its congregation, that has committed in the neighborhood of about 2000 counts of murder in a year (abortion)...... this may even be a fellowship that does not allow female pastors.... i am not sure... seems funny we are concerned more about WHO IS PREACHING then about who is killing and raping and leading people straight to hell...

mike