Women pastors

[larryt]

1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

I though you knew the scriptures.

In 3:1 & 5 the Greek is tis which means 'anyone/someone' etc.

1The saying is trustworthy: If ANYONE aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task.

4He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, 5for if SOMEONE does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God

[patricia1]

okay listen guys....

1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

I though you knew the scriptures.

In 3:1 & 5 the Greek is tis which means 'anyone/someone' etc.

1The saying is trustworthy: If ANYONE aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task.

4He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, 5for if SOMEONE does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God

[firehill]

The "someone as you call it is controlled by the masculine "he take care of the Church" It can mean someone but the context, context, context says differently.

What context? If the singular masculine does the controlling then they would have to do so also in the salvation passages that use tis. For example, the 'he will live forever' in John 6:52.

John 6:51

[patricia1]

if I am not married I can't preach? My house is definitly in order I would have a more humble position, Accountability to who invites me, accountability to the board and elders and above all accountability to Jesus. Oh I just think men have uterus envy...lolololo God had to give you guys something to do!!!! Any way the curse on adam and eve fell off when Jesus rose from the dead!!!!! I know I can't change the scripture just trying to throw it... off rythym. A minister is a servant. A preacher publically proclaims the word. A pastor is actually a shepherd whom equips the saints correct? correct. See there is no arguement there!! okay I see more male figures shepherding than females But God sees a pastor and his wife as one. so are they not both pastoring? All of us are servants....or should be. Jesus still serves us!! we all are called to preach. That is why they should be married.Both of them put together possess the concern, protectiveness,, they search for the lost saints as well as sinners, unselfish fearless and considerate, they know how much to feed them, what and when to feed them and then move them to better pasture to feed them better pasture, They will defend their children as well.A shepherd did not carry that staff for nothing and he knows who to correct . So there!!! thats my final word in the matter ( and if you believe that one your naive)

I use an EGG to explain the trinity. Three parts to the egg, the shell, the yolk and the clear part. All have a function together as well as seperatly. NO matter what you do to that egg it remains a egg.

Another is. I am a mother, a sister and a aunt. yet still remain the same person

another is the telephone----the chord is Jesus and position yourself and god whichever. Now that we have modems I gotta think about that one...cell phones too. love you all oh who has been praying for me???? I am doing so much better than the last two days...The funk is gone from my head. well any way thank-you

[HAZARD]

And we who are desiring to be like Him so that we can see Him as He is, if one of us happens to be a pastor of a flock of Jesus' people would he/she not be attempting to follow His example?

Shalom Rumple,

No. Jesus did not ordain women pastors.

Women who want to live like Jesus should follow His commands as well as His example. No one "just happens" to be a pastor Rumple. It is a serious thing. And something that the Scriptures do not support.

______________________________________

This topic can and will go on forever because we tend to go round and round in circles pretending to know whether women can or cannot teach or preach, and we can pretend to know why they cannot teach or preach, and we can profess to know the reason is because women are never to be in authority over men.

Or we can all, "Search the Scriptures, for in them we think we have eternal life and they are they which testify of me" (John 5:39)

The facts are, Jesus does not have to appoint women or men pastors or teachers today. Because the Holy Spirit, here and now, can and does!!!

We may not like what we read in Scripture regarding this doctrin, but here it is and there is no denying these Scriptures.

Anyone who is filled with the Holy Spirit can do the ALL the works that Jesus did which includes teaching, preaching, healing, and even greater works than Jesus did, and the Holy Spirit does not discriminate between believers be they male or female for; "God is no respecter of persons" (Acts 10:34),

Read on.

There are nine gifts of the Holy Spirit mentioned in Scripture (1 Cor. 12:4-11). If one is filled with the holy spirit one would have.

1 The gift of the word of wisdom

2 The gift of the word of knowledge

3 The gift of faith

4 The gift of healing

5 The gift of working of miracles

6The gift of prophecy

7 The Gift of discerning of spirits

8 The gift od divers kinds of tongues or languages

9 The gift of interpretation of tongues or languages

The next question is, who can have all of the above gifts, is it men only? or women only?

Scripture teaches that "EVERY BELIEVER," that is, MALE or FEMALE, may have one or all of the above gifts as they covet them and seeks God for the anointing of the Holy Spirit (Read 1 Cor. 12:8-31). That is every member of the body of Christ, be they male or female! God is no respecter of persons (Acts 10:34), and therefore, neither is the Holy Spirit.

The next question is, what is the purpose of these gifts?

Scripture plainly states that the purpose of these gifts is to enable all believers to do the works of CHRIST and to carry on the work that He began both to do AND TO TEACH (READ Acts 1:1-2, 12-15; 1 Cor 1:7; Rom. 12:3-8; 1 Cor. 12:4-31; 14:1-40; Heb. 2:3-4). "He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; AND GREATER WORKS than these shall he do for I go to my Father (Read John 14:12).

God has set some in the Church, first apostles,secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miricals, then gifts of healing, helps, governments, diversities of tongues . . . But covet earnestly the best gifts; and yet unto you a more excellent way . . . . Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts" (1 Cor. 12:28-30; 14:1).

Not one mention of gender in asking for and recieving any of the above gifts, or being limited in any of the works any believer can do, in fact Jesus says even better works than these, works which He did? we both, male and female can do all the works Jesus did and more than He did, and that includes teaching, for He was the greatest teacher of all, if we so covet the gifts and recieve them. Teaching has nothing to do with having authority over men. Teaching is teaching.

[patricia1]

And we who are desiring to be like Him so that we can see Him as He is, if one of us happens to be a pastor of a flock of Jesus' people would he/she not be attempting to follow His example?

Shalom Rumple,

No. Jesus did not ordain women pastors.

Women who want to live like Jesus should follow His commands as well as His example. No one "just happens" to be a pastor Rumple. It is a serious thing. And something that the Scriptures do not support.

______________________________________

We can go on round and round in circles pretending to know whether women can or cannot teach or preach, and pretending to know why they cannot teach or preach, and that is because they cannot be ever in authority over men.

Well the fact is,

Jesus does not have to appoint women or men pastors or teachers today. But the Holy Spirit can and does!!!

We masy not like what we read in Scripture, but here it is and there's no denying this.

Anyone who is filled with the Holy Spirit can do the ALL the works that Jesus did which includes teaching, preaching, healing, and even greater works than Jesus did, and the Holy Spirit does not discriminate between believers be they male or female.

Read on.

There are nine gifts of the Holy Spirit mentioned in Scripture (1 Cor. 12:4-11). If one is filled with the holy spirit one would have.

1 The gift of the word of wisdom

2 The gift of the word of knowledge

3 The gift of faith

4 The gift of healing

5 The gift of working of miracles

6The gift of prophecy

7 The Gift of discerning of spirits

8 The gift od divers kinds of tongues or languages

9 The gift of interpretation of tongues or languages

Now who can have all of the above gifts, is it men only? or women only?

Scripture teaches that EVERY BELIEVER, that is, MALE or FEMALE, may have one or all of the above gifts as they covet them and seeks God for the anointing of the Holy Spirit (Read 1 Cor. 12:8-31). That is every member of the body of Christ, be they male or female!

Now, what is the purpose of these gifts?

Scripture plainly states that the purpose of these gifts is to enable all believers to do the works of CHRIST and to carry on the work that He began both to do AND TO TEACH (READ Acts 1:1-2, 12-15; 1 Cor 1:7; Rom. 12:3-8; 1 Cor. 12:4-31; 14:1-40; Heb. 2:3-4). "He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; AND GREATER WORKS than these shall he do for I go to my Father (Read John 14:12).

God has set some in the Church, first apostles,secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miricals, then gifts of healing, helps, governments, diversities of tongues . . . But covet earnestly the best gifts; and yet unto you a more excellent way . . . . Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts" (1 Cor. 12:28-30; 14:1).

Not one mention of gender in asking for and recieving any of the above gifts, or being limited in any of the works any believer can do, in fact Jesus says even better works than these, works which He did? we both, male and female can do all the works Jesus did and more than He did, and that includes teaching, for He was the greatest teacher of all, if we so covet the gifts and recieve them. Teaching has nothing to do with having authority over men. Teaching is teaching.

[Emily~Anne]

Saying the Holy Spirit appoints women to be pastors sounds about as credible as saying the Holy Spirit appoints people to be homosexual. I do not believe the Holy Spirit leads us to do things that are spoken against in God's word.

[ParanoidAndroid]

I don't think the issue is muddy at all. The Bible is very clear about the limited role of women in the New Testament church with regard to leadership and authority. Further using Joyce Meyers (WOF heretic and heretic supporter) as an example of a capable woman is very sad. Finally you should consider and understand that the author of First and Second Timothy was not Timothy but the Apostle Paul.

sw

Hi st. Worm,

I didn't mean to imply that things were muddy. My apologies if it came across that way, and my poor choice of words (i claim tiredness as my defence, after 2am when I posted). If you'll note I was agreeing with the general consensus without ever actually trying to answer the question. I just proffered a possible reading of Timothy that differed from the mainstream, and as you note, I mentioned that I don't agree with that interpretation either. And yes, apologies for the mistake on the authorship of Timothy. I was writing my post at 2:30am and wasn't really paying attention. Thank you for clearing that up.

As for the capability of Joyce Meyers, I cannot actually give an opinion. my comment was based on what a friend of mine told me, and what I had read to this point in this thread. I have never seen a Joyce Meyers program, and until two weeks ago had never heard of Joyce Meyers at all, period. If she's teaching heresies, then so be it, as mentioned I was just basing my comments around a friend who liked her preaching.

All the best,

Edited July 29, 2007 by ParanoidAndroid

[Rumple]

And we who are desiring to be like Him so that we can see Him as He is, if one of us happens to be a pastor of a flock of Jesus' people would he/she not be attempting to follow His example?

Shalom Rumple,

No. Jesus did not ordain women pastors.

Women who want to live like Jesus should follow His commands as well as His example. No one "just happens" to be a pastor Rumple. It is a serious thing. And something that the Scriptures do not support.

You are absolutely correct Vickilynn! No one just happens to be a pastor. My error for the way I expressed that.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Someone I know who I trust said that in churches that start ordaining women as pastors, within 2 years of doing so have also ordained homosexual pastors. I'm not sure how true or accurate that statement is, but I trust the person who told me and at this point have no reason to doubt his word.

~ Regards, PA

actually, if that were true, there would be more "homosexuals" trying to pastor.....

there are several (denominations as some would say) that do ordain women and have not even remotely concidered those that are living in sin ( homosexuals for instance ) The Assemblies is one that has had women working in the ministry for a very long time, and yet, the women have to stand to the heavy standard of living an upright and blameless life, as their male counterparts do....

a person livng in sin is not living an upright nor a blameless life.....

a person can be innocent and not be blameless.... there is a differance....

blameless means there is no way anyone can point fingers... a person that is innocent can do things to attract undue, unwarrented attention and bad publicity.... ( such as going to a bar every day after work and not drinking anything but soda, the appearance is not blameless.... )

anyways, the 2 year thing is not correct....

mike

Ok, thanks for clearing that up. Maybe the person I was speaking to was thinking only of a particular denomination, or perhaps he was just mistaken. I'll try and clarify next time I see them. Oh well, I still think the Bible defines the roles of men and women in the church fairly clearly. Just because women are not allowed to have authority over the men does not make them inferior or second-class citizens, and it does not mean that they might not be just as capable of doing the job. It's just the different roles that God has set forth for His people to follow, just as he has set the roles of men and women in other aspects of life also