Slave To Righteousness

[Guest Biblicist]

This is true, as well as:

James 2:14 What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15 Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. 18 But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder. 20 You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21 Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend. 24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone. 25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

You must have the WHOLE counsel of God that works together.

In His Love,

Suzanne

Quite right.

We can not judge someones relationship with God by their outward behaviour. It's something that is only learned if one becomes friends with such a person.

[Guest Biblicist]

Suzanne....define "willfully."

Where does addiction come into play?

Everytime a heroin addict shoots up, that person is breaking the law, thus sinning....BUT.....

did he do it "willfully," or "unwillfully" due to the addiction?

Is a person's will stifled when that person is addicted? If so, and the addict continues giving in, is that willful sin, or unwillful sin?

This can apply to any substance...even cigarrettes and marijuana.

I guess my question is...what if that addict truly loves the Lord, but is having trouble resisiting the addiction, and that person is truly repentant after he/she stumbles, but continues even when he/she desires to stop.

Would that be willful sin or unwillful sin?

I ask this because "unwillful sin" seems to be where grace is applied.

Dear DNW,

Here is where the rubber meets the road, so to speak. If a person is a true believer in Christ Jesus, doesn't the impact of a mighty God come into play in our hearts and minds? And doesn't that Almighty God have power, even to defeat death itself? So, this same God, that we earnestly claim that we follow and believe, doesn't He have the power to defeat sin, IF He can defeat death? Or, does it come down to our belief? Maybe we do not believe how great He Is? Which is greater, the love and belief in the power of God and HIS claims? OR the desire for the drug? Does Jesus coexist in us with herione? Meth? etc.? Or, does He have the power to defeat ANY temptation? I find it hard to believe in addictions for a the Christian, especially when we read God's Word and understand the Majesty and Power of our Almighty God. He Is An All Consuming Fire!

What do we believe about Him? Here is what we should know and believe about Him:

1 Cor. 10:13 No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.

In His Love,

Suzanne

I know of a Pastor who became addicted to perscription drugs. Does that make him not a Christian anymore?

Addictions are very strong. Drugs are not the only things people can become addicted to.

[Openly Curious]

This is true, as well as:

James 2:14 What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15 Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. 18 But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder. 20 You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21 Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend. 24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone. 25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

You must have the WHOLE counsel of God that works together.

In His Love,

Suzanne

Quite right.

We can not judge someones relationship with God by their outward behaviour. It's something that is only learned if one becomes friends with such a person.

Hello Biblicist,

I know you response it to tsth but could you eloborate on your answer for me as the passage is not referring to judging a person outward behaviour so I'm a little confused on what your trying to get across and say. Also what is the something that is only learned by becoming friends with such a person. No disrespect intended I just do not get what your answer is saying it just doesn't make sense to me.

OC

[Openly Curious]

Suzanne....define "willfully."

Where does addiction come into play?

Everytime a heroin addict shoots up, that person is breaking the law, thus sinning....BUT.....

did he do it "willfully," or "unwillfully" due to the addiction?

Is a person's will stifled when that person is addicted? If so, and the addict continues giving in, is that willful sin, or unwillful sin?

This can apply to any substance...even cigarrettes and marijuana.

I guess my question is...what if that addict truly loves the Lord, but is having trouble resisiting the addiction, and that person is truly repentant after he/she stumbles, but continues even when he/she desires to stop.

Would that be willful sin or unwillful sin?

I ask this because "unwillful sin" seems to be where grace is applied.

Dear DNW,

Here is where the rubber meets the road, so to speak. If a person is a true believer in Christ Jesus, doesn't the impact of a mighty God come into play in our hearts and minds? And doesn't that Almighty God have power, even to defeat death itself? So, this same God, that we earnestly claim that we follow and believe, doesn't He have the power to defeat sin, IF He can defeat death? Or, does it come down to our belief? Maybe we do not believe how great He Is? Which is greater, the love and belief in the power of God and HIS claims? OR the desire for the drug? Does Jesus coexist in us with herione? Meth? etc.? Or, does He have the power to defeat ANY temptation? I find it hard to believe in addictions for a the Christian, especially when we read God's Word and understand the Majesty and Power of our Almighty God. He Is An All Consuming Fire!

What do we believe about Him? Here is what we should know and believe about Him:

1 Cor. 10:13 No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.

In His Love,

Suzanne

I know of a Pastor who became addicted to perscription drugs. Does that make him not a Christian anymore?

Addictions are very strong. Drugs are not the only things people can become addicted to.

Sin is the transgression of God's law so what is the transgression in your above scenario? What law was being violated?

When a person practices unrighteousness (wrongdoing) that person is a transgressor or sinner. When a person practices righteousness (doing that which is right) then that person is a doer of the law a believer. It's really that simple

OC

[Guest Biblicist]

Quite right.

We can not judge someones relationship with God by their outward behaviour. It's something that is only learned if one becomes friends with such a person.

Hello Biblicist,

I know you response it to tsth but could you eloborate on your answer for me as the passage is not referring to judging a person outward behaviour so I'm a little confused on what your trying to get across and say. Also what is the something that is only learned by becoming friends with such a person. No disrespect intended I just do not get what your answer is saying it just doesn't make sense to me.

OC

It's OK, I can understand why that sentence would confuse some. This whole thread and others like it started because of a thread started about having "christian" friends who are gay.

A person can only understand another's relationship with the Lord and their choices in life by being a friend. Not a casual aquantience, a friend. Someone who prays with them, cries with them and is there for them on a daily basis. Casual observers should never judge what is going on on the inside of a person.

There is a process that the Lord takes us each through, some might go throug it faster than others, but it is a process all the same.

Anyway, I gotta go to work. Talk to you later.

[Openly Curious]

Quite right.

We can not judge someones relationship with God by their outward behaviour. It's something that is only learned if one becomes friends with such a person.

Hello Biblicist,

I know you response it to tsth but could you eloborate on your answer for me as the passage is not referring to judging a person outward behaviour so I'm a little confused on what your trying to get across and say. Also what is the something that is only learned by becoming friends with such a person. No disrespect intended I just do not get what your answer is saying it just doesn't make sense to me.

OC

It's OK, I can understand why that sentence would confuse some. This whole thread and others like it started because of a thread started about having "christian" friends who are gay.

A person can only understand another's relationship with the Lord and their choices in life by being a friend. Not a casual aquantience, a friend. Someone who prays with them, cries with them and is there for them on a daily basis. Casual observers should never judge what is going on on the inside of a person.

There is a process that the Lord takes us each through, some might go throug it faster than others, but it is a process all the same.

Anyway, I gotta go to work. Talk to you later.

Thanks for the clarification on your part. But still do not see the connection concerning judging going with the passage given by tsth as it doesn't fit. But in light of your train of thought towards the other threads it may. And I don't know if I fully agree with your assessment concerning not being able to understand another's relationship with the Lord and their choices in life if we are not a close friend of that person. Again no disrespect but I can't see that as being true that is like almost judging my heart to say I can't understand another's relationship with God and understand the choices they make in life because I don't really know that person closely.

I tell you a story to try to bring out what I'm trying to say. I had a person walk up to our vehicle once and he ask me to borrow $3.oo and then he said I am going to be honest I want the money to buy me a beer I ain't gonna lie to you. Well next thing you know I saying to this guy I am not going to give you $3.oo dollars so you can buy you a beer with it. What you need to do is repent of your wrongdoing and ask Jesus into your heart and life and the man shook his head yes as he hung it to the ground and walk off jump over this half brick wall and I didn't know where he got to. I proceeded to pull off and my eye caught sight of the man who was sitting down on the sidewalk with his head down in his arms over his knees. You know I don't know if that man ever got his heart right with God or not but I've often prayed for that man down through the years and have prayed God would raise him up to be a preacher.

No Biblicist I didn't know that man as a close friend I don't know why he was drinking but I know what it is to be in the bondage of sin and I know without Christ that man will continue to choose sin and I can say that without knowing the man closely. For we were all once yet sinners but Christ died for the ungodly. And lots of times what is going on on the outside is revealing making known what is on the inside of a person got nothing to do with judging.

Hope you have a good night at work

OC

[Eddie B]

I was not trying to hurt anyones feelings. But I was trying to provoke a clear answer from tsth. She sounds mature enough to handle what I said and the way I said it, but I apoligize if I came on to strong.

To put it simply, Rom 7 is a saved person who struggles to live for God by the Law through self-effort, not yet aware that it is the Holy Spirit that delivers and inables one to live for God (8:2-4) not of a unsaved person who gets saved.

The ? I was trying to get from tsth was do you believe in the doctrine of sinless perfection.

[Openly Curious]

I was not trying to hurt anyones feelings. But I was trying to provoke a clear answer from tsth. She sounds mature enough to handle what I said and the way I said it, but I apoligize if I came on to strong.

To put it simply, Rom 7 is a saved person who struggles to live for God by the Law through self-effort, not yet aware that it is the Holy Spirit that delivers and inables one to live for God (8:2-4) not of a unsaved person who gets saved.

The ? I was trying to get from tsth was do you believe in the doctrine of sinless perfection.

Hello Eddie,

I neither was trying to hurt anyones feelings but I was trying to provoke a clear answer from you. I think tsth is pretty plain in what she has been meaning all along even though others have said otherwise about her in this thread as I have been reading it and following it from the start and if I being a simpleton can understand what she is meaning then I'm unsure why others can't.

Now as for Romans 7 there has always been many controversial interpretations of that passage always have been always will be. I have heard so many it makes my head spin the lastest was that it was referring to sanctification.

Actually the passage is referring to apostle Paul himself in the struggle he found himself fighting with being between his flesh and spirit which are the two laws apostle Paul mentions in the chapter being the law of the flesh and the law of the spirit. Paul concluded that with his members in his body being his hands, feet, eyes all of the members of his body that he would serve the law of sin.

It was Jesus Christ that set him free from the law of sin and death the same as us and now we willingly choose to serve the Lord with the members of our bodies. We don't use our bodies for sexual sins, our tongues to gossip our hands to drink and get drunk our eyes to see and indulge in wicked things like it says in Romans 6 but instead we use the members of our body for righteous things not for sin. The word says the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. Paul also talked about his mind in that passage as he had to yield his mind over to God as well as we are taught to have the mind of Christ in Phillippians and we are taught to renew our minds and not to have carnal minds minds that are on earthly carnal things all the time Romans 8 but things that are eternal.

You see Paul is saying and teaching us that Jesus set us free from self effort as you called it as the law couldn't make one righteous for there wasn't a law given that could do that that we could practice and do to become righteous that is why the law was not perfect and we need Jesus blood to atone for our sins as that is the only thing that makes one righteous as it set us free to be able to walk and live in the spirit doing the things of God.

So in you analogy thus far I have found myself in disagreement with you. First off here I want to say that I do not get up every morning with the thoughts in my head like what sin am I going to engage in today? Instead I get up with the Lord on my mind and often a song of praise in my heart as I am looking for how I am going to please and serve God that day. I don' think a person has to sin everyday sure we all fall short of God's glory but we all don't go and engage in willful sin every day either. As you have been set free to walk in the spirit you have a choice to engage in the sin of the flesh or walk pleasing to God everyday saying no to the sins of the world. You can live close to God or as far away as you want.

I don't agree with your assessment.

OC

[tsth]

I would say that sums it up very well!

In His Love,

Suzanne

[corriee]

I am new here and got in on the end of this it looks like. What I wanted to add to the original post was

that I did a word search of servant, on the BibleGateway.com, and Paul called all whom he named

a servant of Christ, or the Word, (same thing). I do think we are servants, or should be, to each other,

those in need and to Christ...any way that is the gist, we are to be servants,

and Paul led by wonderful example.