Catholicism Examined

[stevehut]

Christ gave infallibility to one Church only and that's the only biblical hard fact.

Infallibility is in the Bible? Please show me where.

[irishcowboy]

My godparents, to this day, wouldn't know where to find the book of Malachi if their lives depended on it. My mother's family are all Catholic going back at least 100 years, and none of them has ever read it even casually. I know because I asked around. Likewise my friends' families at church.

So what's all this about Catholics being encouraged to read the Bible?

wow, even when I was Catholic, I recall mom reading the Bible... why??

cause she did not wish to entrust her salvation to another man..... and the more she read, the more she realized that what the priest was telling her was not the entire truth......

thats right, the priest was not teaching or even reciting the entire truth.....

we all are responsible for our own actions...... the priest is not responsible for our actions... shoot, they cant even tend to themselves very well....... the pope is not responsible for anyone but them selves.......

but, if they lead even one astray, they will have to answer to that as well....

if you are lead astray by some one, yes that person will have to answer for that, but the person lead astray will have to then stand on their own two feet... they will not be able to pass the buck toward the priest or the pope, or use them as a scape goat...... if you only take in what you are being told during mass, then you will be lacking......

The Lord dont want us to be a one hour, once a week believer, God dont want us to be a one hour once a day beleiver either... God wants us to be a follower of His 24/7 ...... thats right, every minute of every day, God wants us to follow Him..... not just listen to some one talk about Him for an hour here and there....... that is not a very good relationship what so ever.....

the relationship that God wants from you is for you to be His child.... to be part of His family...... you can not be part of the family unless you know about the family.... a Bible study ( one study ) is only a start..... you can spend your entire life doing nothing but studying the Bible and then still not know every thing there is to know about it...... that is where the Holy Spirit comes in..... to reveal the truth to us, to reveal more about the Lord...... this way we do not have to rely on man to feed us our milk..... we can feed our selves MEAT..........

very respectfully

Mike

[jmwhalen]

Stevehut:

"QUOTE (mobile21 @ Mar 29 2004, 12:14 AM)

Christ gave infallibility to one Church only and that's the only biblical hard fact.

You write:

"Infallibility is in the Bible? Please show me where."

_____________________________________________

I have asked this question numerous times to Catholics on this board. And every time, either an opnion/assertion is given, or no answer is given. They "move on" and post the same "company line" elsewhere on the board without providing an argument. Keep asking the relevant, logical questions as you have.

In Christ,

John Whalen

[salt and light]

Charlie,

I'm not stubborn. All the catholics that I've witnessed to seemed very stubborn. Just the other day,my pastor tried to witness to a lady and she absolutely refused to hear one word my pastor said about Jesus. She backed away and said, "I don't want that tract, I don't want to hear about Jesus,I'm catholic" My mother tried to witness to a very stubborn catholic lady about a year ago,and that lady even got a little irked and shouted and said, "I don't care what you say, I believe in purgatory"! Yes,catholics are stubborn Charlie, at least ones I've known and tried to talk to or heard about. I don't remember saying that a baby couldn't get baptized until he or she reached the age of accountability. I did say that a person has to believe and then be baptized, read Mark 16:16, Acts 8:37. I also said that a person can't believe for a baby. You know that a baby isn't capable of believing. Immersion a man made doctrine? That's bible. If it's in the bible,we should pay the utmost attention,and if it isn't, it isn't worth 2 cents. Show me just one verse that says that someone got sprinkled. John the baptist never sprinkled a baby,or anybody,and neither did Jesus. "Baptize" means to "dip" or "immerse" Sprinkling is a made made doctrine,but baptizing is bible. Water baptism will not save anybody,for it is a symbol of religious purification. It publically shows that a person is a believer. The thief on the cross wasn't baptized. I'm not any denomination. We at our church are just bible believing christians,who takes the bible as final authority,and we don't follow man made traditions. My pastor was a catholic for years until the Lord saved him,and he said that the Roman Catholic System is a false religious system. I don't follow anybody though really, I follow Jesus. I don't trust so called christian tv or radio,and by the way, you sound catholic to me.

[artsylady]

What about the criminal who was saved by Jesus as they hung on the cross together. Clearly, the criminal did no good 'works' to justify heaven. He was just simply accepted by Jesus.

[stevehut]

What about the criminal who was saved by Jesus as they hung on the cross together.

There's a word for that. It's called divine prerogative. Actually, Jesus forgave the sins of many people, not just that one guy. If Jesus in the flesh says you're forgiven, then you're forgiven.

I'm not counting on that to happen for me, anytime soon. Except perhaps for the Second Coming, and by then it'll be too late for anyone to make their case to be the "exception".

[JesusisGod2]

Charlie,

I'm not stubborn. All the catholics that I've witnessed to seemed very stubborn. Just the other day,my pastor tried to witness to a lady and she absolutely refused to hear one word my pastor said about Jesus. She backed away and said, "I don't want that tract, I don't want to hear about Jesus,I'm catholic" My mother tried to witness to a very stubborn catholic lady about a year ago,and that lady even got a little irked and shouted and said, "I don't care what you say, I believe in purgatory"! Yes,catholics are stubborn Charlie, at least ones I've known and tried to talk to or heard about. I don't remember saying that a baby couldn't get baptized until he or she reached the age of accountability. I did say that a person has to believe and then be baptized, read Mark 16:16, Acts 8:37. I also said that a person can't believe for a baby. You know that a baby isn't capable of believing. Immersion a man made doctrine? That's bible. If it's in the bible,we should pay the utmost attention,and if it isn't, it isn't worth 2 cents. Show me just one verse that says that someone got sprinkled. John the baptist never sprinkled a baby,or anybody,and neither did Jesus. "Baptize" means to "dip" or "immerse" Sprinkling is a made made doctrine,but baptizing is bible. Water baptism will not save anybody,for it is a symbol of religious purification. It publically shows that a person is a believer. The thief on the cross wasn't baptized. I'm not any denomination. We at our church are just bible believing christians,who takes the bible as final authority,and we don't follow man made traditions. My pastor was a catholic for years until the Lord saved him,and he said that the Roman Catholic System is a false religious system. I don't follow anybody though really, I follow Jesus. I don't trust so called christian tv or radio,and by the way, you sound catholic to me.

Amen Salt,

I agree with your post, and Charlie sounds catholic to me as well, even though he says he isnt.

I have had similar experiences with catholics as the ones you have mentioned, some from within my own family and others with friends. I am a former catholic from an Irish family.

They are very stuborn and how many times have you heard this response "thats your interpretation"? And yet many never pick up the bible to find out if indeed the bible says that or not. its a shame really.

And as far as baptism, you are right on thr mark, it says believe and be baptised of which baptism is immersion by example of the scriptures.

[Douay]

Christ gave infallibility to one Church only and that's the only biblical hard fact.

Infallibility is in the Bible? Please show me where.

Whatever you shall hold bound on earth I shall hold bound in heaven.

That's the first thing that came to mind.

As far as Catholics being encouraged to read the Bible, we are. The Church even grants an indulgence for reading the Bible for 15 minutes a day, not that most here believe in those things.

The Catholic teaching about baptism of desire would include the criminal on the cross.

[RGR]

Christ gave infallibility to one Church only and that's the only biblical hard fact.

Infallibility is in the Bible? Please show me where.

Whatever you shall hold bound on earth I shall hold bound in heaven.

That's the first thing that came to mind.

As far as Catholics being encouraged to read the Bible, we are. The Church even grants an indulgence for reading the Bible for 15 minutes a day, not that most here believe in those things.

The Catholic teaching about baptism of desire would include the criminal on the cross.

Sorry, but the passage of Scripture you gave IS NOT talking about one church in particular. It is a promise given to believers in general.

Okay, I guess I'm dumb, but what do you mean by the church giving an indulgence of 15 minutes per day to read the Bible, but "not that most here believe in those things." Please enlighten me! Personally, I don't time how long I read or pray. I gave up that habit long ago. I'm not trying to be crass or rude, but I would like to know where you're coming from?

[irishcowboy]

I would have to agree with Ron on this,

is that saying that all we need is an hour one day a week? and 15 minutes aday to have a relationship with the Lord????

wow, that is lots more simpler then serving Him 24/7....

I had a devotion book that was a daily devotion that would take a minimum of 45 minutes to just go thru it once.... and if you stopped to go back over something it was even more..... do I still use it??? absolutely, but as Ron sad, stopped the clock... i go where there is no clock to tempt me to look, and there I do my study... that same book and more, and if there is a question, i go back and search out the answer.....

I would be very disatisfied if all I did was 15 min aday..... you can read thru the entire Bible in one year on that, but very disatisfying, that is why I dont worry about time....

you see, I want more of the Power of the Spirit in me... so that I can do what God wants me to do.... not what man says I should do..... Man dont have a clue, God knows it all......

mike