Forgiveness

[Bolts]

It's really tough being in a relationship with someone who lies. The person with hidden agendas often leaves behind them a trail of mistrust, betrayal, suspicion, or inadequacy. When the Lord reveals the hidden agenda, we can begin to walk in the light of the truth. It is then that we make a conscious choice to forgive, because the Lord is in the situation and can do mighty things.

[Guest]

Very true but you don't have to set yourself up to be hurt again by the person right?

No, you don't have to set yourself up to be hurt again. We're not called to be doormats. This is something best done with the Lord's guidance and a lot of prayer, and it depends on the situation. God will gives us the wisdom to walk through these kinds of things with Him. "Allowing" someone to hurt you again is the same thing as enabling them to do that, or to continue some other destructive pattern of behavior. If they truly repent and change their ways, you will know it.

It's like having someone staying with you who got evicted from their own place. You allow them to stay for a bit, but they don't have a job, or lose the job. They aren't carrying their own weight around the house, and by looking for work. Next, you discover they have started using drugs at your place. (This happened to me once.) Do I let this continue? No. I set limits. If the limits are passed, then out they go. I can't allow someone to continue staying with me who is not looking for work, and worse is doing something illegal in my house.

[irishcowboy]

does forgiveness include forgetfulness?

obviously we can't willfully forget. but if you take into account the past actions of people when dealing with them, is this being unforgiving? for example, if you have a relationship with someone that regularly lies, would you take what that person says with a grain of salt? I have thought 'yes' - you can do that without harboring ill will or seeking revenge and that would be forgiveness. but yesterday i was told that just the fact of acknowledging something like that in a person and dealing with them accordingly is being unforgiving.

to me, that is an issue of trust rather than forgiveness. who is correct?

(this post has been edited to make it shorter and less personal)

I have forgiven several thousands of dollars of debt to me through business.......

does this mean i will carry them again in business debt? No.....

I do not see it being beneficial to allow them to go back into debt, their debt is forgiven, they owe nothing, but they will not be allowed to go back into debt through me again.... that would be irresponsibility on my part, and would also be placing them back in bondage.....

after the Lord dealt with me on their debts (multiple people) I wrote out letters of forgiveness and sent them out, only one person replyed and they had not read the entire letter, for in the letter I had how much their debt was and also how much the montthly billing fee was and how long it had been since i had been contacted by them, one person almost 1000 on a single job, with 5 dollars a month billing fee, for 2.5 years..... you can see where this would add up....

a 50 dollar debt over two years old would be an extra 60 dollars a year.....

remembering can sometimes keep a person from being in bondage to you.... other times it can be used to keep them in bondage...........

mike

[irishcowboy]

oh yea,

if a brother sins against you andasks you for forgiveness, you should forgive him..... and he comes and sins against you agian, and again, he asks forgiveness.....you should also forgive that one.....

how is it Christ put it? was it 7 times???????

or was it 7 X 70 times ??????????

as was posted above, we do not have to be doormats..... turn the other cheek, but we only have two, so we do not have to keep turning it.....

mike

[tsth]

It's really tough being in a relationship with someone who lies. The person with hidden agendas often leaves behind them a trail of mistrust, betrayal, suspicion, or inadequacy. When the Lord reveals the hidden agenda, we can begin to walk in the light of the truth. It is then that we make a conscious choice to forgive, because the Lord is in the situation and can do mighty things.

This was my Bible study topic for my kids yesterday. And I do believe that God brings many things to light, that need to be seen. Our example for the study, was Joseph and his brothers. We talked about how through all of the trials Joseph ended up going through, after his brothers sold him into slavery....prison, false accusations, total abandonment, etc. During those times, he must have had thoughts cross his mind about how it was all because of his family, that he was in the terrible prison that he was in. If you notice in the story, Joseph eventually ended up in a place of high regard and comfort, he could have sent for his family at any time. He didn't. IN fact, he named his firstborn in this manner:

Gen. 41:51 Joseph named his firstborn Manasseh and said, "It is because God has made me forget all my trouble and all my father's household."

Sounds like some anger was there. To the point that he didn't even think of them? Yet, here is where the forgiveness issue came in.

And also the teaching lesson for my kids. I explained to them, that Joseph saw his brothers' remorse, but he was hesitant at first. Remember he tested the water, to see where their hearts were. He saw their true remorse, AFTER Judah was willing to sacrifice himself in order to save Benjamin from slavery, because they were distraught over what they had done to Joseph.

(Remember the above passage in Gen. 41, Joseph had forgotten them all.) Considering what they had done to him, he could have grown so resentful, that when they showed up, he could have thrown THEM in prison. He didn't. He looked and listened and was longsuffering toward them. (remember the tears he shed in the other room) After their remorse was revealed, he had mercy, and was reconciled to his family. It could have very easily gone another way. He could have held his resentment and gone back to forgetting them.

It is a rare thing in today's world, for someone to willingly apologize. But, to have that apology offered, AND then for you to reject it...............is much worse than the original offense the person committed against you! When true apologies are offered, we are obligated to forgive.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Eddie B]

QUOTE(GodsLove26 @ Sep 6 2007, 06:49 PM)

Very true but you don't have to set yourself up to be hurt again by the person right?

Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

Gal 6:3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.

Gal 6:4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.

Gal 6:5 For every man shall bear his own burden.

[Guest Biblicist]

does forgiveness include forgetfulness?

obviously we can't willfully forget. but if you take into account the past actions of people when dealing with them, is this being unforgiving? for example, if you have a relationship with someone that regularly lies, would you take what that person says with a grain of salt? I have thought 'yes' - you can do that without harboring ill will or seeking revenge and that would be forgiveness. but yesterday i was told that just the fact of acknowledging something like that in a person and dealing with them accordingly is being unforgiving.

to me, that is an issue of trust rather than forgiveness. who is correct?

(this post has been edited to make it shorter and less personal)

We can willfully forget. God does it.

Don't confuse forgetting, as in I don't remember what happened, with "remembering not". Forgetting a past transgression and moving on is a choice. Whenever Satan brings it to the forefront and tries to come between you in a relationship, ask God to help you remove it from your mind.

Forgiving and forgetting are two completely different things and not always correlating. We are told to forgive, we are not told to forget.

I think this is for ourselves too, we need to remember not our past transgressions so we can live in peace with ourselves.

[patricia1]

does forgiveness include forgetfulness?

obviously we can't willfully forget. but if you take into account the past actions of people when dealing with them, is this being unforgiving? for example, if you have a relationship with someone that regularly lies, would you take what that person says with a grain of salt? I have thought 'yes' - you can do that without harboring ill will or seeking revenge and that would be forgiveness. but yesterday i was told that just the fact of acknowledging something like that in a person and dealing with them accordingly is being unforgiving.

to me, that is an issue of trust rather than forgiveness. who is correct?

(this post has been edited to make it shorter and less personal)

We can willfully forget. God does it.

Don't confuse forgetting, as in I don't remember what happened, with "remembering not". Forgetting a past transgression and moving on is a choice. Whenever Satan brings it to the forefront and tries to come between you in a relationship, ask God to help you remove it from your mind.

Forgiving and forgetting are two completely different things and not always correlating. We are told to forgive, we are not told to forget.

I think this is for ourselves too, we need to remember not our past transgressions so we can live in peace with ourselves.

How true bibs , people do often forget the difference. Many people hold on hoping for a explanation and sometimes there is none. It just is and just happens.

I love my father in heaven , Jesus has enough instruction in the word about this. I deal with two relatives who lie terribly. I just look at them now and say "if you think I believe that, you think I am very stupid or you are trying to show me how creative you are. patricia

[Bolts]

It's really tough being in a relationship with someone who lies. The person with hidden agendas often leaves behind them a trail of mistrust, betrayal, suspicion, or inadequacy. When the Lord reveals the hidden agenda, we can begin to walk in the light of the truth. It is then that we make a conscious choice to forgive, because the Lord is in the situation and can do mighty things.

This was my Bible study topic for my kids yesterday. And I do believe that God brings many things to light, that need to be seen. Our example for the study, was Joseph and his brothers. We talked about how through all of the trials Joseph ended up going through, after his brothers sold him into slavery....prison, false accusations, total abandonment, etc. During those times, he must have had thoughts cross his mind about how it was all because of his family, that he was in the terrible prison that he was in. If you notice in the story, Joseph eventually ended up in a place of high regard and comfort, he could have sent for his family at any time. He didn't. IN fact, he named his firstborn in this manner:

Gen. 41:51 Joseph named his firstborn Manasseh and said, "It is because God has made me forget all my trouble and all my father's household."

Sounds like some anger was there. To the point that he didn't even think of them? Yet, here is where the forgiveness issue came in.

And also the teaching lesson for my kids. I explained to them, that Joseph saw his brothers' remorse, but he was hesitant at first. Remember he tested the water, to see where their hearts were. He saw their true remorse, AFTER Judah was willing to sacrifice himself in order to save Benjamin from slavery, because they were distraught over what they had done to Joseph.

(Remember the above passage in Gen. 41, Joseph had forgotten them all.) Considering what they had done to him, he could have grown so resentful, that when they showed up, he could have thrown THEM in prison. He didn't. He looked and listened and was longsuffering toward them. (remember the tears he shed in the other room) After their remorse was revealed, he had mercy, and was reconciled to his family. It could have very easily gone another way. He could have held his resentment and gone back to forgetting them.

It is a rare thing in today's world, for someone to willingly apologize. But, to have that apology offered, AND then for you to reject it...............is much worse than the original offense the person committed against you! When true apologies are offered, we are obligated to forgive.

In His Love,

Suzanne

WoW!! What an amazing bible study topic

[Carol R]

Forgiving a person is one thing. Their repentance is another thing. If they do not, have not repented of wrong actions then wisdom says you be wary. After one puts their hands in a fire, if the fire is not put out, we cannot pretend that it doesn't exist and put our hand in the fire again.

Forgiving them frees you to love them again without bitterness. Love is wise. God's wisdom can guide us to still love a person who is in deliberate sin, without foolishly allowing them to harm us and/or others.

I liked the way you wrote this its so true.

Thank you.