Romance Theology?

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

Dan,

I'm with brother Wayne here.

Dan, it sounds like to me that your intimacy with God is growing deeper.

Be blessed brother in seeking the deeper things of God and the ever unfolding revelations of your intimacy with Him.

Peace,

Dave

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE(Wayne B. @ Nov 30 2007, 09:37 AM)

Christ expressed His relationship with His Church as a marriage between a Bridegroom and a Bride.

Yes that is true, but we don't want to take any metaphor beyond the point it was being used to convey.

Another metaphor used is that we are the body of Christ and Christians are pictured as different members of the body such as feet, eyes, etc. We can take it too far and start trying to apply that same metaphor to parts of the body like the liver, spleen, lungs, intestines, etc.

I don't think the "bride and bridegroom" metaphor is being used to communicate anything beyond a type of relationship. Giving the metaphor a sexual component is not something I think we can justify from Scripture.

So the romance you speak of is in context to an AGAPE LOVE

I might have a minor quibble there. Agape is the Greek equivalent to the Hebrew "Ahavah" which is not romantic at all. It is purely operative.

David, my point is that the word "romance" has limits in English. That's all brother. Like I said, romance can simply mean a "love affair" with no human sexual connotations. I agree that AGAPE love should not be confused with EROS. One is spiritual and the other is physical. One is divine and the other is human. BOTH can be romantic when romance is defined as simply a "love affair".

Very good. I can see what you mean now.

[patricia1]

It depends on ones interpretation of intimacy. To me it is haveing no fences up. To be seen and loved unconditionaly.

I consider Gods' word to be romantic.

A constant wooing of his people to Him.

I find when I have counseled people, their earthly difficulty with intimacy spills over to their relationship with Jesus.

What can be more romatic than someone gives His Life for you...Jesus did that...Yes He was obedient to His father, but does one think it was all duty? Not according to John 3:16. For God so LOVED the world.

I have been kidnapped and raped. Do I say Jesus has no idea what I went through physically, mentally, Spiritually, emotionally because He was and is a MAN. Absolutely not.

In order for trust to happen again He had to do a lot of healing in me. I was a christian at the time too.

How romantic it is that Jesus will leave the other sheep to go and look for the lost one.

He knows it all...everything and is very capable of restoring us, and I pray for you my friend ...That the relation stolen between yourself and your mother, is returned a hundredfold in the love you Lost. Forgive her, pray against rejection and believe .

I read the divine romance...I enjoyed it immensly. Will read it again in the future. I am sorry that my initial response may have set off assunption!!

I did not mean to do that. I was trying to cover all bases for I have heard plenty and wanted to make sure of the purity or impurity of the matter both got touched.. Sorry people.. patricia1

[Guest HIS girl]

Isn't it impossible to interperet God's love when we are clouded with the notion of Human love/intimacy?

God so loved the world that He gave His Son to die for our sins on the cross. He LOVED us/Jesus DIED.

As humans we would never ever put death and love (as we view it) in the same sentence but here we see it in God's Word.

Doesn't that just give us a glimpse of how different God's love is for us and how differently we view love?

[dgolvach]

Of couse we are saved from the cross. We can enter in his presence daily because of calvery. With out spending time in his presence we could never overcome sin because its his love that makes sin less attractive. The point about intimacy with God is pure spiritual intercourse that dosen't need physical sex to acomplish it. It is where you drink from God and get your soul's food from him in his throne room. You soul's food is this powerful intimate love that is far more than we we experience between humans when it comes to intimacy. He gives this to us and our souls are healthy amd we don't need to run to sin to get them feed any longer.

Dan

Dan, with all due respect, we overcome sin by knowing and applying the Word to our lives. When Jesus was in the wilderness being tempted by Satan, He quoted Scripture back at him. Our soul's food comes from continual infusions of the Word of G-d. Prayer and communion with G-d is important and has its place, no doubt. Yet, one can pray 24 hours a day and still struggle with sin because of a lack of knowledge of G-d's Word, His complete revelation to us. Having said that, though, a far more satisfactory metaphor for our relationship with Christ is the one He Himself gave us in John 15, that of the Vine and the Branches. Believers are to "abide in vine." While I know where you are coming from, many of us are repulsed by using the "romance" metaphor ("spiritual intercourse"???) to describe our relationship to G-d. It lowers it to a very fleshly level.

Marine...I absolutley believe that we cannot overcome sin apart from the word of God. For sure we need to read it daily so we can even know if were sinning our not. When you think about it, sin is trying to meet your needs in a way thats not Gods. Any sin. Meeting your needs as the Bible clearly says is by seeking him first. So we need to know his word, praise and thank him and then enter his presents or we won't get our needs met. The we will usually seek out earthly sorces to get these needs. I believe that substituting anything for God is idolorty. So in away yes its both. As for "romance" and "spiritual intercourse", take away the sexual conitations of them and I believe that you will have great words to describe our intimacy with God who is spirit not male or female. We can't have sex with a spirit.

Wiktionary defines intercourse: Communication, conversation.

Dealings between countries.

Dealings with people, including commerce and trade.

sexual intercourse.

Notice I said spiritual intercourse. A complete coming together in an intimite way. Well how can human souls and spirits do this. Obviously its not with a human body because a spirit dosen't have one. Its allowing one to enter into the other with no holding back. No secret places.

I keep hearing that our relationship with God is not about feeling. Surely not all of it but a relationship with God is going to have many extreme moments of emotion. Just read Psalms or what happenend when Jesus healed someone.

Dan

[dgolvach]

So what are we going to turn WB into a platform to launch talk about romancing with the Almighty God as in a romance story from Barns and Noble.

Do we have to turn the bible into some cheap book about sex?...You people disgust me.

Actually Eric this book was bought at a Christian Book store, written by a Christian author and builds it message by using the Bible. You should read "Song of Songs" ITS IN THE BIBLE AND IT WAS WRITTEN BY GOD!. Much of the book I sited used "Song of Songs" You should also take the time to read the original post so you would even understand the context of the thread itself which was not about "cheap sex". Don't think that cutting people down and throwing condemnation around will elevate you and bring you one inch closer to God. IT WONT! You don't disgust me but your act here of being a self appointed bull horn for God coupled by your obvious complete ignorance of the subject being discussed here is irritating at best. But if you feel like your rightousness has been offended, by all means.....go to the moderators and get me banned from the board.

Have a nice day!

Dan

p.s. read the whole thread sometimes before you start lobbing your insults (commision to Eric by God) around to cut down others who are merely talking about a subject of spiritual concerns.

damo1 to dgolvach

i also was about to say some thing hear as eric is a very wise man and he was not insulting you eric said what i was about to say to you as its as if this guy is making us men feel guilty or trying to lay the guilt trip on us men who see the bible as it is with out jumping the gun or saying i want to be romantic with the lord my naked truth offends people but i do not let this stop me for standing up for what is right

i also took my time to read your post and you said sevral things that puzzled me like your lust and you went on about sevral other things

can i ask you a question with your lust did you also bring this up with your partner as i notice when men like your self talk on subject like this men wil also have hidden sins they need to deal with

as this is my topic i often talk about in group settings many seem to think that god does not see what goes on in our own homes and many feel that they can do as they please

by me saying this i never use to tel my first wife what i was thinking of or perving at when i was walking down the street as i was a sort of man that kept things to him self

though being in my second relationship with my new wife to be who is a pastor we both are very open with each other that means we talk openly with out twisting things around or trying to be little each other and saying its your fault

also i notice men like to blame women for their lustful thoughts which gets up my nose to the point wear i have rebuked sevral as we should be seeing our sisters in the lord the way god sees them if you have a problem deal with it dont just talk about it and then come down on some one else who is being honest

so when i read this and i came across erics post he said what i was about to say to you

god wants us to be close to him but he provided adam with a wife as he could not meet adams other needs and he new if he gave adam a wife she would meet the needs that god could not meet if god did not want adam to be intament with a women dont you think that god would have left him alone in the garden by him self

so please before you get openly rebuked i would think very hard what you have said to a brother and try to recorrect what you said to eric

also you need to understand this wear you are trying to get in your walk others are doing this as well god works on us and we need to be constantly open to him i also notice many are not content in their own walk some find it even hard to say jesus is lord over my life but god works on those that put walls up and he alows us to seek him out at our own pace

what might sound good to you wil not be like this for others

i feel if eric came across your post he wil tel you why he said what he said to you

if you try this stance with me brother i wil openly rebuke you their have been sevral like you on this board al wanting to have their say with out hearing some one else out and i am talking from past experiace with my own dealings with those that love to play god and wil almost make it hard for a new christian to move forward i am a man that never wanted to step foot into a church i never wanted to know my father in heaven i held on to past sins more then drawing close to god its taken me nearly 7yrs just to get to wear i am know in my walk and i can only know say daddy i love you thank you for what you have done in my life i use to have a hard heart once know i have a soft heart

also this is a debating forum and you better get use to people having their say if you did not want to hear what brother eric said to you wel you should have thought hard weather this post was right to post in this topic

think before you say some thing or you wil leave your self open to be attacked

god bless from your brother in the lord damien

No problem...Eric said "YOU ( Dan) DISGUST ME! Is that Christian rebuke? I said back" You DONT DISGUST me but your insults AND THEY WERE were irritating".

Just read it again

As for you....You simply have some problems with what I am saying. I take no offence to that. I will admit that this isn't the easiest subject for me to articulate but somehow by your post I dont think you quite understand what am trying to say. Thats fine.

God Bless

Dan

[dgolvach]

...

Are these authors and myself being blasphemous by wanting so much from God? I dont want a mansion. I want him. Every second. I want extreme love from him. I want him to love me in an extreme way?

Any thoughts? Am I a blasphemer?

Dan

I have not read ANY of the responses to your initial message. As in all things, the truth is found in the mind of God and of Christ through the Spirit.

His Spirit in you, Him living in you by His Spirit -- AND -- the work of the Spirit there: renewing and transforming your carnal wicked mind to be like Himself and from this seed, this starting point, transforming your life from the inside out (the inner man to the outer man) IS the intimacy you seek.

If the outer man (body/flesh) is a "following machine"; following the blueprint of our inner man (mind, thoughts, emotions, heart, etc) -- then the physical intimacy we enjoy with people (especially with a spouse) is an outward expression of an inward reality of who we actually are.

God is Spirit. The Spirit of God in us and walking in the Spirit of God inwardly -- the laying down of my mind on purpose by me to take up the mind of Christ in me as me is THE intimacy I most desire. All other intimacy is outside this deepest part of me.

My wife cannot get there in me. Neither can I get there in her. But God can! The Lord has access to us in our inner man. His Spirit has access to US in the inward man to the depth and level that He has the power to see, to know -- AND (more importantly) -- to heal, change, transform and recreate and birth in us ourselves into HIS likeness inwardly.

It is the inward that captures my attention, now that I understand it is there to focus on. It is this working of Grace, this working of the Spirit in me that is MOST valuable and treasured in my life. My possessions, my work, my family, my friends, my wife (especially her) -- all are ok, all are good and excellent; all are a part of a larger plan -- but the CORE -- the very SEAT of my being is where God meets me.

What about this is the most compelling? That He changes my mind, which is enslaved to the lusts of my flesh and against which I have NO power to change. I have no power and no capacity by which I can win the freedom of my mind from the lusts of my flesh. BUT -- in His Spirit in me is power for freedom. When, by His Spirit, He births (born again of the Spirit) His mind in me, there is freedom.

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the Law of God according to the inward man; 23 but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin being in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then with the mind I myself serve the Law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

The mind of Christ is not bound. The mind of Christ does not worship in vain. The mind of Christ does not pray in vain. The mind of Christ in me is not enslaved to my lusts, but is enslaved to God -- following Him perfectly and flawlessly. Here is my joy! For where I was unable to follow, now I can. Where I was separated from Christ, from the Father -- NOW -- I am deeply penetrated and changed by the very person whom I was missing: God Himself.

Be careful though. When we sling about the word "intimacy" as "Christians in name only" (see Galatians) not having the mind of Christ, we do so sensually for the purpose of feeding the flesh. The words carries significant human thought attachment to very sensual matters and so it is difficult to consider using the word openly without taking into consideration the audience: who most may be deeply in their natural minds and NOT in the mind of Christ.

Honestly and I mean this. When I refer to intimacy I am speaking of the need to know I am loved not to please my body. For that matter, my body can't really be please all that much anymore because of an illness I have. I want to know that God wildly loves me. Thats the truth. I want the same king of closeness that occurs when a man and a women are making love only not the physical side of it.

Dan

[patricia1]

Yes.. it is hard to comprehend the wonderful and greatly pure Love that the Father has for us.

so loved us/Jesus died.

We Love our Lord Jesus and hopefully die to self each day.

I remember I could never read the Song of Solomon for a very, very long time. All other books I did not have a problem relating nor understanding.

So many obstacles come into play, If you do not Love or like yourself, how can really believe truly that Jesus loves you. Divine revelation along with the Word of God. For many we hear, By faith we believe but do we walk and treat ourselves as God would?

There are numerous occassions I know I have treated others better than myself: I am sure grieving Our Father, the lover and Sheperd of our souls.

I consider myself both a bondslave and married to the Lord Jesus. If you were to look at these two words they do not go together!

We cannot grow further in the Lord than our belief.

I have been able to read songs of Solomon now for years, understanding such Love and thirst to quench it. Yet Gods love that we experience deepens with each truth we obtain for us individually, That he gives. We will only taste a bit here in comparison to the truth, and it remains tremendous anyway!!!!

He removes the blockages, He removes the walls of brick, the stones of hardness, circumsizes our hearts, with our humble surrender to Him.

We come to Him...sinners with not much to give, and he bethroths us. AND everything like in any marraige, becomes ours. Praise The Lord god ..for He so Glorious and faithful to us, Loving us even before we knew...Thank-you Jesus patricia1

[damo1]

damo1

to dgolvach

high dan how are you ? i found your post you left for me i noticed you said something that i want to clear with you in brotherly love i do not have a problem with what you have said in your post i see things a little diffrent and i sort of try not to force how i see god on others my relationship with god is personal and how i alow my self to draw near to him its between me and god i also try to respect wear others are at in their walk with the lord my very first confrence was holiness unto the lord by john wimber and his team john wimber is from vinyard ministrys though john wimber has passed on and is know home with his father in heaven what john wimber and his team shared in the holiness unto the lord confrence which was held hear in australia has never left me

i alow god to bring things up that need to be dealt with in me for a long time i could not see god as my father due to how i saw my earthly father and when i gave my life over to god i sort of saw god as my earthly father who was a very angry abusive man that is why i said in the post i left you it has taken me time to get to wear i am know in my own walk to wear i see god in a diffrent light i can also say know with out being fear ful daddy i love you and every time i openly ask god to help me draw close to him he does as i love nothing but giving praise to my father in heaven as he deserves our praise he deserves to hear his children say daddy i love daddy thank you for the many things you do for us

that is why i said dan wear you are at in your walk and what you are asking god to do in your life others are asking the very same thing but its a personal thing as subjects like this are very hard for people to be oppen

i also see this when i talk about hidden sin many find it hard to see that god does see what we try to hide from him also i notice this many men wil not tel their wives they view things on the inter net for example i had problems in sevral areas in my life and i new i needed to beat this and be strong to wear i can over come this so i told my new partner who lives in the philippines and my partner is such a lovely women and is very supportive i learnt the hard way and i dare not keep anything back from my partner

keep pushing forward in your walk keep seeking god the way you are but keep this in the back of your head us men are also doing this but at our own pace the very diffrence is i do not jump the gun i love the women that god has given me and our love for each other is very strong for each other and what we do in our own bedroom and how we express our love to each other is of no ones concern god created as i said eve for adam and i am glad that my father saw that it was not fair for adam to be on his own on this earth

and every day i thank god for my partner but this also does not stop me from seeking him out as wel and drawing close to him god comes first in my life then my partner then my earthly job

yes i feel that this is a difficult subject yet i am cool with what you have said in your post just dont freak out if some one responds in a difrent light

god bless from your brother in the lord damien stipic

[patricia1]

damo...we must have been writing at the same time....