Oh Christmas Tree, Oh Christmas Tree

[VRSpock]

For a few years now, I have been under the belief that the biggest secular icon of Christmas, other than the guy in the red suit, was made mention of in Jeremiah 10:1-4 as a pagan instrument that should be forbidden in the homes of any believers. Having grown up a Gentile in the midst of the tradition of Christmas and all that comes attached with it, and learning later about the true birthdate of Christ much earlier in the year and the origins of the Christmas holiday itself, I have struggled greatly over the past few years with regards to Christmas.

In fact, this year I lack any "Christmas Spirit" whatsoever and am looking forward to the end of all of the comotion, lack of good financial stewardship, schedule crunches, and "Christmas cheer" that is so temporarily affixed on this particular time of year. Call me a scrooge if you want...bah humbug! lol

Read along with me in the KJV:

"Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. "

That sure does sound like they are talking about the Christmas tree that many people have sitting in their living rooms this time of year.

I decided to re-study the whole issue of Christmas. You see, I see it as a pagan holiday and would like nothing more than to do away with it in my personal life. I'm not saying that it is wrong for others to observe it, in fact, if more people spent as much energy and time projecting the Christ that they attempt to project this time of year all year long, the Church would be a lot more inviting to people. What I am saying is that I personally have no desire to observe this so called holiday....the only reason I say so called is because the word holiday means "Holy Day" and the only one who designates what days are "Holy" is G-d. I therefore call any national "holiday" a so-called holiday...be it Christmas, Halloween or the 4th of July....so please don't take what I am saying as implying that you are wrong for observing Christmas....that is between you and G-d.

As a family, we are still observing Christmas within my household, and we still have a Christmas Tree. This is why I am so perplexed this time of year and continue seeking answers to know where G-d's Word truly stands on this matter. I already know what many Jews and Messianic Jews may have to say about this issue and I understand their reasoning. That is why I am so perplexed.

However, here is what the same verse is translated to in the NIV:

"Hear what the LORD says to you, O house of Israel. 2 This is what the LORD says: Do not learn the ways of the nations or be terrified by signs in the sky, though the nations are terrified by them.

For the customs of the peoples are worthless; they cut a tree out of the forest, and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel. They adorn it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so it will not totter. "

This scripture is not talking about "decking" a tree with gold and silver. It is talking about decking a piece of chisled wood from the tree with gold and silver....a wooden idol in other words. This scripture is addressing idolatry and not the Christmas tree, which wasn't a custom until much much later in time by the German Hessiens and therefore could not have been addressed by scripture as a pagan custom.

I've even took a look at the original hebrew to determine for myself which translation is more accurate in our modern English and I have to side with the NIV translation on this one.

This is why I encourage people to use multiple translations in their research. Our language has simply transformed too much over time to rely on a single translation.

[AndrewA]

The King James only crowd will probably disagree with you entirely as the King James is the only true translation that is "perfect" but anyway certainly you do illustrate how we must go back to original Hebrew and Greek etc when researching or studying something.

As for Messianic Jews etc well they are .. Jews! and they dont do Gentile stuff . Those of you who call yourself Christian hate the whole idea of Christmas so much with the evil Satan claus , pagan trees and ceremonies, then why dont you convert and become a messianic Jew? then you dont have to bother with Christmas

[Guest Biblicist]

I decided to re-study the whole issue of Christmas. You see, I see it as a pagan holiday and would like nothing more than to do away with it in my personal life.

Not to derail your thread, but this statement struck me.

Actually, vrsprock, it is not a pagan holiday. People were celebrating Christ's birth several centurarys before the Pagans tried to reclaim the day as their own. As early as 98 A.D. December 25th was not recognized as the celebration of the Pagan Sun God untill 274 A.D. And that was an attempt to undo the effect of Christ on culture. Isn't that what Christianity is supposed to do. Be salt and light to the culture changing it?

My pastor just did a lesson on this Sunday, in reference to whether or not it is correct, according to the Regulative Principal, to celebrate Christ's birth.

The date, not the celebration is pagan. If you read the account of Christ's birth, there was plenty of celebrating going on, by the Angels, the shepherds and the wise men. There is no reason we should not celebrate the coming of our Saviour.

While we are given no command to celebrate Christ's birth, we are given no command to the contrary either. There are 42 prophesies reguarding Christ. His birth was the corination of those. Without his birth there would have been no life, there would have been no ministry, there would have been no death or resurrection, there would be no second coming. What better reason to celebrate!

Back to your topic. I see no reason not to have a tree, it could mean life to Christians. The tree brought us life. As long as one does not "worship" it there is nothing wrong with it.

[Axxman]

Christmas is NOT a pagan holiday. It was not designated in order to copycat a pagan holiday either. In fact, the pagan holiday, that many refer to as being the pagan holiday that Christmas represents begins on Dec 21, not Dec 25th, it is called Winter Solstice. Winter Solstice occurs on the shortest day of the year...therefore its date varies...depending on the year, and which part of the world you live in. The reason Christmas is celebrated on Dec 25th is because early Christians believed that Christ was conceived on March 25th (still celebrated as the Feast of the Annunciation.) Well, it is only obvious to celebrate Christ's birth nine months later on Dec 25th.

There are numerous reasons to discount the idea of Christmas being pagan in origin. The idea that a pagan holiday 'floats' around during the same time is no reason to assume it is pagan.

[David of Derby]

I reccomend you all read a book entitled The Magic of Christmas: Facts Behind the Myths and Magic of Christmas by Patrick Harding. It covers the origin of Christmas in Church history and the connections to various pagan rites, as well as the origin of Santa Claus and sundry other Chrismas-related images and customs. A fascinating read and well worth looking at for any Christian, or indeed, anyone else.

[Vickilynn]

This scripture is not talking about "decking" a tree with gold and silver. It is talking about decking a piece of chisled wood from the tree with gold and silver....a wooden idol in other words. This scripture is addressing idolatry and not the Christmas tree, which wasn't a custom until much much later in time by the German Hessiens and therefore could not have been addressed by scripture as a pagan custom.

I've even took a look at the original hebrew to determine for myself which translation is more accurate in our modern English and I have to side with the NIV translation on this one.

This is why I encourage people to use multiple translations in their research. Our language has simply transformed too much over time to rely on a single translation.

Shalom vrspock!!

Yeah, yippeeee ad Praise the L-rd!! Finally!!! YOU posted the correct way to read that Scripture!!! It is not about a Christmas tree, the verse is condemning making idols from the trees!

Great post!!

BTW, I am a MESSIANIC JEW and we celebrate Christmas as joyful holiday unto the Messiah. I believe (accordig to Scriptural info) that He was CONCEIVED during this time of year and born during the Feast of Tabernacles. I wrote a coupla posts about it, if I can find them for you, I'll repost.

So, no, not all Messianic Jews think Christmas is a pagan holiday, it's not. It's rejoicing in the INCARNATION of the holy Messiah, come to the world as a human. That is cause for rejoicing!!

[Vickilynn]

As for Messianic Jews etc well they are .. Jews! and they dont do Gentile stuff . Those of you who call yourself Christian hate the whole idea of Christmas so much with the evil Satan claus , pagan trees and ceremonies, then why dont you convert and become a messianic Jew? then you dont have to bother with Christmas

Shalom Andrew,

WHAAAAAT? What a nasty post and wrong on every level.

What are you talking about?

First off, Messianic Jews are Jewish Believers in the Messiah.

And not ALL Messianic Jews believe the same things about everything. DO all Christians believe the same things? No way.

And yes, many Messianic Jews celebrate Christmas because it's not a Gentile thing it's a JESUS thing.

And, for the record, a Gentile cannot "convert" and become a Messianic Jew. One is either a Jew or a Gentile and either one can become Believers in Messiah, but they cannot become each other.

[EricH]

This scripture is not talking about "decking" a tree with gold and silver. It is talking about decking a piece of chisled wood from the tree with gold and silver....a wooden idol in other words. This scripture is addressing idolatry and not the Christmas tree, which wasn't a custom until much much later in time by the German Hessiens and therefore could not have been addressed by scripture as a pagan custom.

I've even took a look at the original hebrew to determine for myself which translation is more accurate in our modern English and I have to side with the NIV translation on this one.

This is why I encourage people to use multiple translations in their research. Our language has simply transformed too much over time to rely on a single translation.

Shalom vrspock!!

Yeah, yippeeee ad Praise the L-rd!! Finally!!! YOU posted the correct way to read that Scripture!!! It is not about a Christmas tree, the verse is condemning making idols from the trees!

Exactly!!

[Marnie]

Excellent, excellent post! Thanks Spock.

[Guest Biblicist]

This scripture is not talking about "decking" a tree with gold and silver. It is talking about decking a piece of chisled wood from the tree with gold and silver....a wooden idol in other words. This scripture is addressing idolatry and not the Christmas tree, which wasn't a custom until much much later in time by the German Hessiens and therefore could not have been addressed by scripture as a pagan custom.

I've even took a look at the original hebrew to determine for myself which translation is more accurate in our modern English and I have to side with the NIV translation on this one.

This is why I encourage people to use multiple translations in their research. Our language has simply transformed too much over time to rely on a single translation.

Shalom vrspock!!

Yeah, yippeeee ad Praise the L-rd!! Finally!!! YOU posted the correct way to read that Scripture!!! It is not about a Christmas tree, the verse is condemning making idols from the trees!

Great post!!

BTW, I am a MESSIANIC JEW and we celebrate Christmas as joyful holiday unto the Messiah. I believe (accordig to Scriptural info) that He was CONCEIVED during this time of year and born during the Feast of Tabernacles. I wrote a coupla posts about it, if I can find them for you, I'll repost.

So, no, not all Messianic Jews think Christmas is a pagan holiday, it's not. It's rejoicing in the INCARNATION of the holy Messiah, come to the world as a human. That is cause for rejoicing!!

Right, what she said.