Please tell me... When is the Sabbath?

[Vickilynn]

I really don't want to debate this issue with you again. You feel your right, I feel I'm right, it is an impasse.

Shalom Cobalt,

Precislely! We are each "convinced in our own mind." (Romans 14)

The one thing I respect and admire about you is that you are not judgmental and you realize that this is not a salvation issue.

Amen. I feel it is a disservice to the Body to teach the view that salvation hangs on the Sabbath. The Sabbath NEVER saved anyone and according to Ephesians, it is by grace through faith we are saved, not by observing any days.

I don't have a problem with you or your beliefs, however I do feel as if you have a problem with mine.

No, not at all. I have no problem with people who feel no need to observe the Sabbath in any way. I do not believe it is a command or that it is binding on any Christian. It is a choice of conviction and a rich worship experience, but certainly not mandatory. I just will respond when I see the arguments come up. I agree that the Sabbath is not a salvation issue, but it is an important issue and one that needs to be understood. I have no problem with your beliefs, you are entitled to them, however, I disagree with some of them and when I see them posted, I will respond using the Scriptures.

My only issue is with those that want to tack salvation onto this issue when it is not biblical to do so.

I agree.

[Ddavid from NC]

I was just wondering if the Sabbath was Saturday or Sunday? I have heard different ppl say different days. Also our calandar's week starts Sunday making Saturday the last day of the week.

Is the day important or a matter of picking one and observing it as the Sabbath?

It is amazing that 2,000 + years later we can be having the same argument and the same tension that Jesus Himself had with the religious types.

^{And He said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. Mark 2:27NKJV}

^{What day you go to worship has nothing to do with the idea of rest and reflection and personal management and discipline to get all your work done in six days. This discipline allows you to be still and know that I am God with frequency. As a minister of the gospel I have not been able to take Saturday or Sunday as my Sabbath. Honestly, I have often broke the Sabbath for weeks at a time. Because my time management had me playing catch up. But I was in church every Sunday. It had nothing to do with a calendar day.}

^{Pharisees thought it important to codify and specify a standard or a day or a list of activities banned. Jesus rejected it as missing the purpose of the commandment. Everyday is a day of of devotion and worship. The Sabbath is for your physical, emotional and spiritual health. God doesn't want one day out of seven, He wants seven. So unless you see and understand the purpose of the Sabbath you are choking on details like those lawyers, who wanted desperately to justify themselves legally. Jesus had His harshest words for these legalist, and this was their major point of contention. Live in the deeper revelation, the spirit of the law.}

[jackie d]

I was just wondering if the Sabbath was Saturday or Sunday? I have heard different ppl say different days. Also our calandar's week starts Sunday making Saturday the last day of the week.

Is the day important or a matter of picking one and observing it as the Sabbath?

It is amazing that 2,000 + years later we can be having the same argument and the same tension that Jesus Himself had with the religious types.

^{And He said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. Mark 2:27NKJV}

^{What day you go to worship has nothing to do with the idea of rest and reflection and personal management and discipline to get all your work done in six days. This discipline allows you to be still and know that I am God with frequency. As a minister of the gospel I have not been able to take Saturday or Sunday as my Sabbath. Honestly, I have often broke the Sabbath for weeks at a time. Because my time management had me playing catch up. But I was in church every Sunday. It had nothing to do with a calendar day.}

^{Pharisees thought it important to codify and specify a standard or a day or a list of activities banned. Jesus rejected it as missing the purpose of the commandment. Everyday is a day of of devotion and worship. The Sabbath is for your physical, emotional and spiritual health. God doesn't want one day out of seven, He wants seven. So unless you see and understand the purpose of the Sabbath you are choking on details like those lawyers, who wanted desperately to justify themselves legally. Jesus had His harshest words for these legalist, and this was their major point of contention. Live in the deeper revelation, the spirit of the law.}

now that was entirely worth reading! amen

[Scarletprayers]

I have asked several times how a person can claim to keep the 10 Commandments, and at the same time, believe that it's okay to alter the 4th commandment. To date, no one has bothered how this inconsistent position is biblical. Can someone please explain it?

Be sure that your argument against keeping the 7th day Sabbath can also be used on the other 9 commandments. For example, if you tell me that it makes no difference what day one observes, then I will be asking if it makes any difference which god a person worships (the 1st commandment). If you say that the Sabbath has been abolished, then I will be asking if the 1st commandment has been abolished or "fulfilled", and therefore is okay to worship other gods. If you say that the Sabbath is not necessary for salvation, then I will ask if worshipping other gods will affect one's salvation.

You know the answer for this is all around you in this thread but you don't see it, because you don't want to. As Vickilynn said above, the Sabbath is a day of rest and contemplation of the Lord, it is NOT about what day you go to Church and worship. You are the one that keeps putting the 2 together in some unbreakable bond and even making it a salvation issue. I'm certain you'll ignore this because to you it is the same thing. The Lord made the day Holy, but all of the rules and regulations for it were given to Israel, and the Church is NOT Israel, nor is Israel the Church. They are two different entities with difference obligations before the Lord, prophecies about them are separate and both have destinies yet to be fulfilled.

[other one]

Jemdude, it would take too much scripture quoting for this morning, but in a nut shell, if you are truly a born again Christian that believes that the Father raised Jesus from the dead, and have profess with your mouth that you have made Jesus the Christ your Lord, and not lied; you are basically going to do the things Jesus commanded us to do.

He changed things by coming here and dieing in our place on the cross. Jesus took the ten commandment and spiritualized them to the point that if you truly are following him, you really won't break the ten. Examples is for adultry..... don't allow yourself to be lustful and you don't have to worry about it... murder.... don't let yourself lust and you don't have to worry about it.

He spiritualized the laws and basically told us that he was giving us two new commandments. Love God with all your heart and soul, and love your neighbor, for within these are "ALL" the law.

See, when you give Him your whole life and bring Him into your very being and experience the Holy Spirit dwelling within you, you don't need a special day to have to stop what you are doing and reflect and worship Him....... it's a constant thing with one that walks in the Spriti..... or better said 'Walks with the Spirit". The Sabbath was for us to stop what we were doing so we could focus on God. Before Christ was here it was not possible for the Holy Spirit to dwell within each of us, and we needed that day to reflect on him and bring us closer to Him. If he is within us now all the time (or should be) one doesn't need a special day to keep you focused on him. The Father doesn't want us on just one day and we have the rest to ourselves, He wants it all.

Paul told us that it's fine to observe Sabbaths and New Moons and other things if we wished, but they were not commandments.

Jesus spriitualized the ten commandments and made it possible for us to change our inner selves so we don't need the letter of the law. The Sabbath was to help mankind focus on God, and if one truly is doing the things that Jesus told us to do, one does not need a special day to do this, for every day is spent focused on God no matter what you are doing or where you are.

So from my standpoint, we are not bound by any of the old testament laws (including the ten commandments) if you are living by the commandments that Jesus gave us when he was here. If one is not living by the commandments he gave us when he was here, I don't see how he can be ones Lord, and that confession that is is would just make one a liar and not a Christian. One has to be guilty to confess something and if it's not so then the confession would just be a lie.

So in a nut shell, Jesus spiritualized the 4th commandment just as he did the other nine. He made all ten of them a way of life. The Sabbath is no longer a single day, but a complete way of life...... every minute of every day everywhere.

As Vicky so eloquently puts it, it's OK to still set aside the seventh day, and sometimes we do that, but it is no longer necessary for us to do......

I do expect that you will disagree, but that would asnwer your question.

I have asked several times how a person can claim to keep the 10 Commandments, and at the same time, believe that it's okay to alter the 4th commandment.

He changed the commandments, put them into our hearts as a way of life, and you don't recognize the 4th because it is no longer one single day, it's your entire life.

So, from my viewpoint, if one wants a day of rest to totally focus on the Lord, there is nothing wrong with that....... but if one needs a day to stay focused on the Lord.... well,, something is wrong with that persons relationship with their Lord.

[Smalcald]

I have asked several times how a person can claim to keep the 10 Commandments, and at the same time, believe that it's okay to alter the 4th commandment. To date, no one has bothered how this inconsistent position is biblical. Can someone please explain it?

Be sure that your argument against keeping the 7th day Sabbath can also be used on the other 9 commandments. For example, if you tell me that it makes no difference what day one observes, then I will be asking if it makes any difference which god a person worships (the 1st commandment). If you say that the Sabbath has been abolished, then I will be asking if the 1st commandment has been abolished or "fulfilled", and therefore is okay to worship other gods. If you say that the Sabbath is not necessary for salvation, then I will ask if worshipping other gods will affect one's salvation.

We do need to address scripture on this issue.

The first thing and center where it all begins for a follower of Christ is the cross and Christ Himself. So what does the Gospel say about the Sabbath and what does it say about the Ten Commandments and in addition about the Law itself?

Of course you realize as far as salvation goes that you do not keep the Ten Commandments. Which I realize is a different point but keeping the Ten Commandments is not necessary for salvation in that we can't keep them, nobody can we can only try and that is our calling and only with the help of the Holy Spirit can we began to succeed. Our salvation lies in Christ alone and what He has already done, not in our works which are as filthy rags. Now if we are called to love Christ by following His commands, what does He say as far as the Sabbath goes, what does scripture say?

[Smalcald]

Well I respect Jemdude for his beliefs, I don't agree but I think on all issues such as this if one believes that something will indeed cause you to lose your faith we should look at the scripture surrounding the issue.

[Ddavid from NC]

Following this thread with interest and as an outside observer, I believe the conversation needs to center on not whether the 10 commandments have been abolished but to who the covenant was binding. Was it indeed given to the nation of Israel or to the church? Not that the spirit of the Law does not apply as wisdom, but to who was the Sabbath (Saturday) established?

[Arthur Durnan]

The Jewish seventh-day Sabbath given only to one nation, Israel in the Book of Exodus, is Saturday, always was, still is. The Christian Lord's Day is Sunday, the first day of the wek. Beware the machinations of one, Ellen Gould Harmon White, founder of 19th-century "Seventh Day Adventism", which name is not found as such in either Old or New Testaments. She also offers you an unbiblical "investigative judgment;" a call to vegetarianism as tho it were on Bible-doctrine grounds; Satan as scapegoat in Leviticus 16, et al.

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[Vickilynn]

Even if you don't agree with my viewpoint, at least understand it.

I DO understand it, completely and I completely disagree with it, based on the Scriptures.

I observe the 7th day Sabbath but in no way shape or form believe that it has anything to do with salvation. That just is not what the Scriptures say.

And I disagree with your views based on the Scriptures. The 4th Commandment has equal standing as the other 9. Instead, most Christians have made the 4th commandment as less important than the other 9. This is an unbiblical position and one I will never support. If breaking the other 9 commandments is a salvation issue, then so is breaking the 4th.

Shalom JemDude,

And guess what? You are entitled to disagree with anyone's views and walk out what you believe.

But, also guess what? You are not entitled to criticize others for not walking as you do, if they believe the Scriptures say differently. We must walk in GRACE Brother.