Challenging God

[Guest mcm42]

WISDOM writes:

other than to say if you REALLY want to know WHO GOD is put HIM to the challenge. That's right....that is what I said and meant!

My question is this, is it alright for us to challenge God?

Matt 4 quote's Jesus as saying that "we should not put the Lord our God to the test?"

Just wondering :t:

[Jacqueline]

Its impossible to challenge God. It would be over before it even began. Remember he's the first and last. He knows everything. What can you use to challenge the all knowing, all powerful? Nothing!!!

God Bless

Jacqueline

[other one]

WISDOM writes:

other than to say if you REALLY want to know WHO GOD is put HIM to the challenge. That's right....that is what I said and meant!

My question is this, is it alright for us to challenge God?

John 4 quote's Jesus as saying that "we should not put the Lord our God to the test?"

Just wondering :t:

I think we would have to closely define what putting Him to the test or challenge means. If you are talking about doing something on purpose that God would have to interfere to keep you safe, then I would say that Jesus told us not to do that.

I can tell you that if you don't understand something and want Him to tell you or disclose in some way that you will understand you can get pretty angry and almost in your face demanding to know why, you can get an answer. You may not like it but He has always answered my most needful questions.

An example: When we found out my wife has M.S. I ask for her to be healed for a week. An asnwer came back that she would be made whole but would not be healed. Meaning that she would be able to work, but would still be hindered in life by the MS. Being a strong headed guy for another week I bugged Him and finally in a rage I demanded to know why.

A voice as though I heard it in my ears quietly said, "It's really none of your business."

I cried..... ask for forgiveness...... I've not asked again. Actually I think that is the last time I've been upset with God. I felt so foolish for not just trusting that he knew what we needed. I still don't understand, but that's ok.

SE

[rockswillcryout]

I think it depends on what you mean by challenge.

To challenge something God has done or allowed to happened, to me, is wrong.

But to challenge God to work in your life - to challenge him change you to make you more like Jesus? Seems perfectly acceptable to me.

Challenge is not just about a battle of wits. To me, a challenge can be a positive way of seeing what can be done in your life - and to see what you can do with God's help. For example, I challenged myself to be more disciplined in my devotional time this year.

Does that make sense?

[Guest mcm42]

Here is an example of what I'm talking about...

God I challenge you to prove yourself to me, if you're real, prove it...

That's what I mean by Challenge

[serotta]

But Wisdom went on to say:

Go before HIM just as you are, and ask HIM to make HIMSELF real to you. HE delights in those moments. HE is a GOD of Truth, and reaches for the non-Christian who reaches for HIM.

mcm42, did you mean Mat 4, where Jesus is being tempted by Satan? In that verse Jesus is quoting from Deutoronomy 6:16 "you shall not tempt the Lord your God as you tempted him in Massah", where the Israelites questioned if God was with them. I think it's fine to challenge God, as long as you are ready for the results. And that fits well with the context that WISDOM made that statement. We "challenge" God with all our prayers of supplication.

edit added:

In Mat 4 Satan was tempting Jesus to test God by throwing himself off the temple; surely he would be saved. I think Jesus was in essence saying, if you test God you had better be ready for ALL possible outcomes.

[traveller]

I certainly don't mean to speak for our brother WISDOM, but this I do know - he is not saying to TEST God. There is a difference in what he is saying and what the scripture says.

Our Lord wants to reveal who He is to us. He has already done so in nature. He has done so in His Word. He has done so through our changed lives. He is not hiding Himself from us and will joyfully come to us if we are truly seeking.

Testing God begins in our hearts, and it usually starts with rebellion or pride. Like an obstinate child stomping his foot demanding something. Like a powerful king sitting on his throne and looking over his vast empire and wanting more. Like a prideful "Christian" who wants to be elevated in his peers' eyes by the wondrous things the Lord publicly does for him.

It's a heart issue.

[Guest mcm42]

Yes, Serotta, thanks for the correction (someone has their eyes open)

We "challenge" God with all our prayers of supplication.

I don't think we do. I don't get on my knees and say God I challenge you to save this person or I challenge you...anything... I say Thy Will not MIne.

OK... this is the quote I'm bringing into question, the full quote, I try not to make my posts long, but to no avail...

Wisdom writes...

I've got nothing to add to what has already been written, other than to say if you REALLY want to know WHO GOD is put HIM to the challenge. That's right....that is what I said and meant! Go before HIM just as you are, and ask HIM to make HIMSELF real to you. HE delights in those moments. HE is a GOD of Truth, and reaches for the non-Christian who reaches for HIM.

[Guest mcm42]

I think Jesus was in essence saying, if you test God you had better be ready for ALL possible outcomes

that is what you think, but unfortunatly that is not what the Bible says.

[Ovedya]

WISDOM writes:

other than to say if you REALLY want to know WHO GOD is put HIM to the challenge. That's right....that is what I said and meant!

My question is this, is it alright for us to challenge God?

John 4 quote's Jesus as saying that "we should not put the Lord our God to the test?"

Just wondering :t:

I searched John 4 but could not find the quote you mentioned. The one that does come to my mind, however, is Matthew 4:7, where the Lord told Satan, "You shall not test the Lord your God."

This quotation of Deut. 6:16 by Jesus was in response to the devil's temptation for Him to call His angels into service to save Him from death. If you recall, He was also tempted to use His divine authority to save Himself from death, when the criminal next to Him said, "Are you not the Christ? Then save yourself and us." (Luke 23:39). Likewise, the soldiers mocked Him the same way.

It is important to note how the devil tempted the Lord here. You will note that the Lord was in the desert for 40 days for the purpose of being tested(v. 1). One might ask, if we cannot test the Lord, then why would He have sumbitted Himself to the devil's tests? Why would the Lord have sumbitted to the tests of the Scribes and Pharisees? Could He not have simply rebuked them all and have been done with it? Well, sure He could have. But He did not, and following are the reasons why:

The devil's temptations of the Lord centered on His divine authority as the Son of God, as God Himself, and as a man. The Lord had been in the desert for several days, and so He was hungry. The enemy came and said, "If you are the Son of God, turn these stones to bread." This is the enemy's testing of the Lord in His authority as the sent One of God, and the temptation of His flesh. Then the enemy took the Lord to a high peak of the temple and told Him to cast himself down, calling upon His angels to bear Him up. This was Satan's testing of the Lord in His authority as the eternal God. Finally, Satan took Him up to a high mountain and promised to give the Lord all the riches the world has to offer, as long as He bowed down (submitted Himself) before him. This was Satan's testing of the Lord in His flesh.

The Lord Jesus is the Lamb of God, typified by the Passover lamb (How appropriate). The Passover lamb had to be pure and spotless (Exo. 12:5). It also had to be examined for 4 days for its perfection (Exo. 12:3-6). The Lord Jesus was tested and tempted in every respect during the 3 1/2 years of His earthly ministry. Finally, nearly at the end of His earthly ministry, right before He was crucified, He was proclaimed to be without fault (In other words, without blemish - Luke 23:4).

I think what Wisdom was saying is that the person asking the question in the original thread should "Put the Lord to the challenge" by asking God who He is. This is not akin to testing the Lord the way that He was tested prior to His death, however.

When I asked the Lord to reveal Himself to me, it was not a challenge to Him at all. It was a challenge to me.