intersting article in legalism in the church

[Guest Biblicist]

There is only one principle we need to live by: Faith that works by love.

Actually, sweetie, there are two principles to live by.

Luke 10

26"What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"

27He answered: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"

28"You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live."

[Artemus Prime]

The crucial hermenutical question here is whether Biblical narratives that describe what happened in the early church also function as norms intended to delineate what must happen in the ongoing church...our assumption, shared by many others, is this: Unless Scripture explicitly tells us we must do something, what is only narrated or described does not function in a normative (i.e. obligatory) way--unless it can be demonstrated on other grounds that the author intended it to function in this way."

(Taken from Fee and Stuart's How to Read the Bible for All Its Worth, Third Edition, Chapter 6, pg. 118-119).

[Guest Biblicist]

Legalism seems to be acquiring a broader and broader definition, and seems to be heading towards doing anything at all out of a reverent spirit to God = legalism. If you don't HAVE to do it, and you do it anyways, then you must be a legalist. I am very tired of the word legalism. It is VASTLY over used and abused and has lost credibility.

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Unred Typo said:

I believe that you can get to heaven by doing what God's word says. What's wrong with that?

If that were true, then Jesus died in vain.

Why go the extra mile in living for God? Refer to my signature, the lines from the song 'Amazing Love'

Actually, HoneyBun,

Legalism is defined as the doctrine that salvation is gained through good works. PERIOD! And you are right, strict adherance to God's law is not legalism. Unless you believe it's going to get you to Heaven.

This article, is directly addressing the legalism some cults are pushing. It is sad but a very real problem. These people are being lead astray by false prophets. They need our prayer and love, not judgement. I do not believe they are Christians. Goodness, when I think of the dear Amish people who believe that all their outward trappings are getting them "points" with God. It just saddens my heart.

[Vickilynn]

I find it very interesting Vickilynn that you took one word from my entire post and made a complete post out of me saying no to you and what you are trying to push on everyone as authority but is full of holes...had you listened you would have seen that I do not flaunt my freedoms in the face of the weaker or younger Christian but I am by no means required to lay my freedom down and never eat meat again! But you can be guaranteed that as that brother grows in the wisdoms of God I will be right there teaching them that they too have the very freedoms that I have and to teach him to laugh in the face of the enemy who uses people to keep him weak and immature.

Open your ears and listen and read all of what I have to say instead of just one word.... In no way am I about causing my brother to stumble for there is no greater love shown that that of the one who lays down his life for his brother. Which I do each and every day by contending with people such as yourself.

be blessed

Shalom Jackie,

And THIS is why I ignore your posts dear.

Please do the same for mine, for I have placed you on IGNORE and can no longer read your rude personal attacks that grieve the heart of G-d and offend readers. You cannot discuss the ISSUES without attacking people. That is very telling about your spiritual condition. I am praying for you, but have no further desire to interact with you because of posts like these.

May G-d bless you with His wisdom as you grow in maturity and in His grace.

[Guest Biblicist]

The crucial hermenutical question here is whether Biblical narratives that describe what happened in the early church also function as norms intended to delineate what must happen in the ongoing church...our assumption, shared by many others, is this: Unless Scripture explicitly tells us we must do something, what is only narrated or described does not function in a normative (i.e. obligatory) way--unless it can be demonstrated on other grounds that the author intended it to function in this way."

(Taken from Fee and Stuart's How to Read the Bible for All Its Worth, Third Edition, Chapter 6, pg. 118-119).

I think you are talking about the Relative Principle. Only doing something if it can be supported by Scripture. Which I agree with. 100%

[Emily~Anne]

Legalism seems to be acquiring a broader and broader definition, and seems to be heading towards doing anything at all out of a reverent spirit to God = legalism. If you don't HAVE to do it, and you do it anyways, then you must be a legalist. I am very tired of the word legalism. It is VASTLY over used and abused and has lost credibility.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Unred Typo said:

I believe that you can get to heaven by doing what God's word says. What's wrong with that?

If that were true, then Jesus died in vain.

Why go the extra mile in living for God? Refer to my signature, the lines from the song 'Amazing Love'

Actually, HoneyBun,

Legalism is defined as the doctrine that salvation is gained through good works. PERIOD! And you are right, strict adherance to God's law is not legalism. Unless you believe it's going to get you to Heaven.

This article, is directly addressing the legalism some cults are pushing. It is sad but a very real problem. These people are being lead astray by false prophets. They need our prayer and love, not judgement. I do not believe they are Christians. Goodness, when I think of the dear Amish people who believe that all their outward trappings are getting them "points" with God. It just saddens my heart.

I actually didn't even read the article. I saw the word 'legalism' and didn't bother.

We are not worthy of heaven, no matter what we do. It is only by faith in the blood Jesus Christ shed for us that we are reconciled to God. However, just because a person for example quits smoking because they feel God wanted them to, doesnt mean that person thinks quitting smoking is the way to heaven, but many people would be quick to label that person as a 'legalist'.

[OneLight]

Onelight said:

If we look at all of what Paul was talking about, we may get a fuller picture.

Christian Liberty

Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

It is obvious he is talking about the Jewish rules that were trying to be imparted onto the Gentiles upon salvation.

What are these liberties you are thinking of and how do you read Galatians 5? I'd like to understand what you think this means so i will not be assuming anything.

OneLight

Galatians 5

1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

First let me start by saying that the yolk of bondage that the Jewish rules put on the people then are no different than the man-made Christian rules that yolk many into bondage today.

People completely misunderstand me when I speak because they assume (which I greatly appreciate the fact that you asked me instead of assuming) I am speaking against the precepts of God that show true love for Him and my brother and sister. I am not about telling people that they should break any commandment nor step outside of the doctrine of Christ's salvation. I am however telling them to step out of religious doctrine made by the minds of man.

The yolk of bondage that exists today tells us that we are responsible for our brother's/sister's sinful thoughts and actions. It tells us that we must live walking a tight rope of fear that we might offend by wearing something that causes an already dirty minded person to think lustful thoughts though we dress modestly. Someone even had the nerve to state that a person who chooses to wear jeans to church instead of wearing a skirt or slacks is in worship of an idol for they refuse to change the way they are in order to keep from offending or causing one to stumble. The problem with this argument is it is not the young/new Christian that is offended it is the ones who look for what they can to disapprove of someone and find themselves superior to another human being (very much a characteristic of a Pharisee)

We are told that we cannot listen to certain forms of Christian music because it comes from the devil, when what it is in truth is music that someone can't understand because they are cut from a different cloth of life and age.

We are told that we are to be as sheep heading to the slaughter following other "believers" down a path of destruction by falling under the authority of man, when the only authority that should be in our lives is Christ. And if one who is in leadership position is leading us astray we should not keep our mouths shut and let them lead us to sin. Again I say NO!! We should be shouting the truth from the rooftops and bringing the lies into the light to be burned.

These are just a sampling of the burdens laid on us to bring our attention off of our walk with the Lord and put them on matters of the flesh. They are so unnecessary and so very harmful to many people, especially the ones who live by them.

These are the yolks, they are heavy burdens and they are not of Christ..Christ said, come to Me and I will give you rest. For my yolk is easy and my burden is light. He wants us to stop listening to these false brothers teaching false religion...we can know it is false religion by testing it, for when one says that they will not submit to them that one is called evil and a sinner...these acts or works these people want us to perform are what they claim through their actions as getting us into the kingdom of Heaven.

I have been crucified with Christ. My flesh was buried with Him and I live! I am under no laws of man. I am under no authority but Him and in His authority I KNOW that I AM FREE to not be under their yolk....

Now I obey the laws of the land....I have never been to jail, haven't had a speeding ticket for nearly 20 years. I(try to remember the commanments...ammended in case someone tries to use it in defense against me) don't steal, lie, cheat or covet. I observe the Sabbath. I honor my mother and my father, I give of myself and what I have when it is asked of me. And I love my neighbor as I love myself. I lay down my life daily for the Lord and for my brother. That is what is asked of me by the Lord and I give it without complaint or grumbling. The rest of this stuff called religion is useless and IT WILL BURN..the ax has been laid to the root of the trees Alan...and praise be to God it has..

Mat 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, "Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Mat 3:8 "Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance,

Mat 3:9 "and do not think to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones.

Mat 3:10 "And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

Thank you for explaining what you were thinking. I also agree with not placing a stumbling block in front of another with the laws of man and their doctrine; however, I do see it correct to follow the bible as best as we can through the help of His Spirit.

[Emily~Anne]

you know guys, it really is okay to move beyond the cross and walk WITH the Lord. We aren't required to continue in false humility of stating we aren't worthy. For we have been given a new name and a clean spotless gown...our lives have been redeemed and we are covered by the Blood of the Lamb. That is the freedom we have been given, one that we should be only to eager to claim and live in....

God's love and mine to you all

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

[Guest Biblicist]

you know guys, it really is okay to move beyond the cross and walk WITH the Lord. We aren't required to continue in false humility of stating we aren't worthy. For we have been given a new name and a clean spotless gown...our lives have been redeemed and we are covered by the Blood of the Lamb. That is the freedom we have been given, one that we should be only to eager to claim and live in....

God's love and mine to you all

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Hey, Emily~Anne...

Do you know what it means to "take up your cross"?

[Emily~Anne]

you know guys, it really is okay to move beyond the cross and walk WITH the Lord. We aren't required to continue in false humility of stating we aren't worthy. For we have been given a new name and a clean spotless gown...our lives have been redeemed and we are covered by the Blood of the Lamb. That is the freedom we have been given, one that we should be only to eager to claim and live in....

God's love and mine to you all

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Hey, Emily~Anne...

Do you know what it means to "take up your cross"?

Jesus gave up his life for us on the cross, we are to surrender our lives to God. We must be willing to give up ANYTHING for God. We must die to self daily, and find life through Jesus.