Mystery Babylon

[nebula]

Well, Mazra -

We'll just have to see how prophecy plays out as it gets fulfilled.

[~pearl]

Well, Mazra -

We'll just have to see how prophecy plays out as it gets fulfilled.

Well said neb!

[Old Timer]

Marza,

May I suggest that it appears you are confusing the beast in Rev 17 with the woman who rides it. I am not denying that the Unites Nations or some other world entity will come into play at the last days. In fact I suspect it will happen. The beast has ten horns. Scripture tells us the horns are ten kings that will come into the picture at the last days, (Rev 17:12). I am not confusing the beast, the heads or the horns with the woman. The woman rides the beast, controls it, influences its movements but they are not the same.

You say,

[Elchingen]

It can be seen either way, spiritual or physical, but Mazra is overlooking that Babylon the city was the center of Babylon the Empire. Just as we, today, refer to countries by their capitals, so it is with prophecy.

NYC doesn't fit the bill in my eyes, and for the most glaring descriptions given the "whore". However, there is an OT reference to a prostitute in Isaiah 23:7. Here, it is Tyre, and this city is called a prostitute because it would do anything for money.

So, the whore Babylon will likewise do anything for money.

If this is a spiritual city, which is it?

As it stands today, our largely Christian nation pours money into political powers whom Christians expect to do their bidding. Many protestant leaders, on radio and television, are solely concerned with getting as much money as possible--and why? So they can stay on tv and win more souls, of course!

Our christianity in the USA has turned some viscious colors. And as we ebb toward a theocracy(I don't think it will really happen, however), how much more is the church allied to the political powers of the world? And how distorted does the church become in an attempt to maintain it's "christian" standards on it's own country?

Our citizenship is in heaven. The early church was not concerned with electing true christians to be senators in Rome. Christ is not a political figure, He is our Lord, and Savior, and King.

So, is it Rome, New York City, or Washington, DC? Or is it just the USA? Or none of the above!

Mazra, you did make one point that I disagreed with in particular--Islam is not an empire, nor is there a leader or position in the Islamic world that would satisfy the conditions of "king" or "mountain".

There have been Islamic empires, from 630 AD to 1918. But there is not one today that would qualify.

In Christ.

[Wonderboy]

Marza,

May I suggest that it appears you are confusing the beast in Rev 17 with the woman who rides it. I am not denying that the Unites Nations or some other world entity will come into play at the last days. In fact I suspect it will happen. The beast has ten horns. Scripture tells us the horns are ten kings that will come into the picture at the last days, (Rev 17:12). I am not confusing the beast, the heads or the horns with the woman. The woman rides the beast, controls it, influences its movements but they are not the same.

You say,

[Old Timer]

I have believed this interpretation for a long time now. I believe it to be the most accurate so far. I will keep believing it unless some event in the future changes things. New York is NOT the woman on the beast. The woman is refering to a false religion which is also a city and currently the only place that suits that description is the Vatican / Roman Catholics. Consider the woman (in Revelations) runs into the desert and God protects her in the desert, this is not a literal woman but rather the true church of Christ - the Bride of Christ. It therefore makes sense that the woman on the beast is also a church - the false church.

Yes, Mystery Babylon is the false church but...

May I suggest that the woman in Revelation chapter 12 is Israel.

The 12 stars with the sun and moon go back to the dreams of Joseph in Genesis thus identifying the woman.

The child she brings forth is the Messiah. The dragon is, of course, Satan.

Catholics say the woman is Mary but fail to explain, if Mary, how she is cursed with original sin (traveled in birth) as they claim otherwise.

Many Christians think the woman is the Church but it was not the Church that brought forth Jesus, it was Jesus that founded His Church.

No, my friends, the woman in Revelation 12 is Israel who brought forth the Messiah.

Edited March 3, 2008 by Old Timer

[Elchingen]

Mazra:

Another facet here you are overlooking is that the woman is referred to not only as a prostitute, but an adulteress. To be an adulteress, she must be unfaithful, and be encouraging others in unfaithfulness....to whom?

The more I think about it, the more it seems to indicate Rome--that is, if one were in the 1st century. Rome has a navigable river through which was used to bring in grain--shipping by sea was far cheaper than by land. Also, the chain of authority went from the Roman Emporer to the Pope--that is, the first pope of Rome was given authority by the emporer. The office of the pope then proceeded, over the years, to pass on that authority to kings over kingdoms--take CVharlemegn, the first Holy Roman Emporer. That authority then descended down to princes, dukes, barons, and the like, creating Europe as it was to be known. Even today much of the world was either conquered, colonized, or subject to onenation or another who owed their existence to the blessing of authority given by the pope. I don't think NYC can come anywhere near claiming such a feat--nor does NYC come anywhere near the millions of murdered faithful who dared love our Lord and Savior more than an old man in gowns and a pointy hat.

Another point to consider: the UN does not qualify because it is really ruled by the Security Council, the five nations who were the victors of WWII(interesting the stalemate of things since then, eh?) Any one Security Council member can veto or abstain on any measure and the measure will not pass. Even the General Assembly is little more than a mouthpiece for disgruntled states. Do you really think the five most powerful nations in the world would so easily relinquish their clout? Yet the Vatican is counted among UN nations. There are few that are not, among them Taiwan--but that, as they say, is another story!

In Christ.

[Wonderboy]

I have believed this interpretation for a long time now. I believe it to be the most accurate so far. I will keep believing it unless some event in the future changes things. New York is NOT the woman on the beast. The woman is refering to a false religion which is also a city and currently the only place that suits that description is the Vatican / Roman Catholics. Consider the woman (in Revelations) runs into the desert and God protects her in the desert, this is not a literal woman but rather the true church of Christ - the Bride of Christ. It therefore makes sense that the woman on the beast is also a church - the false church.

Yes, Mystery Babylon is the false church but...

May I suggest that the woman in Revelation chapter 12 is Israel.

The 12 stars with the sun and moon go back to the dreams of Joseph in Genesis thus identifying the woman.

The child she brings forth is the Messiah. The dragon is, of course, Satan.

Catholics say the woman is Mary but fail to explain, if Mary, how she is cursed with original sin (traveled in birth) as they claim otherwise.

Many Christians think the woman is the Church but it was not the Church that brought forth Jesus, it was Jesus that founded His Church.

No, my friends, the woman in Revelation 12 is Israel who brought forth the Messiah.

Yes I've read this interpretation of the woman in the desert before. The thing that throws me off this interpretation is the fact that its a woman which we recognise as a church and not a nation. This interpretation does make sense though, I will read more about it.

If your interpretation is correct, would the woman in the desert represent the 144 000 survivors of the invasion of Israel mentioned in Rev.?

Sorry to throw this off topic.

[Mazra]

Hello Everyone,

The idea that the Roman Catholic Church is the harlot of Babylon dates back to the 1500

[Old Timer]

Marza,

Please explain how the last part of verse 7 in Revelation 18 fits with your belief that NY City is Mystery Babylon

...for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

What does it mean that she truly believes she is a queen?

A queen is married to the king. Who is the king?