Atheists

[Grungekid]

Can I ask you if the following sounds logical: "We know very little of our universe. The unknowns far outweigh the knowns. But I do know that there is not an intelligent creator in charge of it all"?

Sounds at least as logical as "We know very little of our universe. The unknowns far outweigh the knowns. But I do know there IS a god - someone far more intelligent than I am and I worship him."

No one KNOWS if there is or isn't a god.

Since when does anyone know anything for certain? Ask questions long enough and there won't be answers.

[OneLight]

The proof is in the heart of the believer. I do wish I could show you my heart and Him that lives in me. Yet, we are to live by faith in Him. Faith requires us to step out of the logical boxes we place ourselves in and live in Him and He in us. Faith in Him is what changes our hearts. You keep requiring something that nobody can provide. Ask God to show you Himself, with all your heart.

[Arthur Durnan]

Save for perhaps Someone Who came to us & identified Himself as God-Manifest-in-Flesh proving what He said by the words He spoke & the miracles He wrought causing muliplied millions to accept Him as the One True Creator-God. There is, too, more in the Encyclopedia re Jesus Christ of Nazareth & Heaven than about Julius Caesar & Napoleon Bonaparte combined! There are 167.000 early manuscripts re the authenticity of Jesus' life & works compared with only ten or so for Homer's Iliad. If Homer lived & spoke, so must have the God-Man by tens of thousands to one! Either Jesus Christ was a gargantuan deceiver - or He is what He claimed to be: Almighty God-Enfleshed indeed for those who believe & accept Him by faith, BY FAITH...the same 'core-determining-engine' of the atheist religion! "Agnostics," yes, but "atheists," hardly at all.

Oxford's Alister McGrathpoints out that all worldviews require faith. Atheists too often conveniently overlook this. McGrath reminds us that the claims of atheism cannot be proved. He asks, "How do we know that there is no God? The simple fact of the matter is that atheism is indeed a faith, which draws conclusions that go beyond available evidence." More and more than ever before, scientific research is convincing more & more scientists that facts support faith as never before.

John Polkinghorne, formerly of Cambridge, has experienced life-changing conclusions re God. He thinks that the order & fruitfulness of the physical world; the multi-layered character of reality; the almost universal human experiences of worship and hope; the phenomenon of Jesus Christ (including His resurrection) has tended to fuse science and faith.

Best of all, if Jesus Christ of Nazareth & Heaven says that an eternity awaits - including a heaven and a hell - and an atheist disagrees with Jesus' promise while I agree with His promise....and we both die, and the atheist turns out to be correct in that there was no hell, the atheist has NOTHING on me. However, if when we die, and we discover that there certainly IS a hell & a heaven exactly as Jesus

taught, then, of course, I'll be able to KEEP REMINDING my atheist friend for all eternity that Jesus Christ is the One True God. YES, I KNOW that disciples of the atheist religion may not appreciate that at all, at all, BUT WHAT CAN I DO about it since Jesus Christ said that death determines destiny?! Not a pretty picture for doubters. Why not click onto believer Dinesh DeSouza's exhilarating debate with unbeliever Chris. Hitchens at the Dinesh WebSite? It'll tend to knock your socks off.

Have a GREAT Resurrection Sunday, everybody!

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[OneLight]

The proof is in the heart of the believer. I do wish I could show you my heart and Him that lives in me. Yet, we are to live by faith in Him. Faith requires us to step out of the logical boxes we place ourselves in and live in Him and He in us. Faith in Him is what changes our hearts. You keep requiring something that nobody can provide. Ask God to show you Himself, with all your heart.

See, what you don't know about me and the majority of atheists and agnostics is we've already been down the christianity road. It's not that we've never "opened our hearts to jesus" or "asked God for guidance." Nothing has ever revealed itself to me and I lived most of my life as a christian. To me, it's very hard to continue to have faith in something that I believe now is just a myth. If it works for you, great. I wouldn't disbelieve either if there had been any proof whatsover. To me, praying to god has the same effect as praying to a brick.

So, from what I read in your words, there is nothing we can say that would encourage you to rethink your feelings toward God?

[OneLight]

The proof is in the heart of the believer. I do wish I could show you my heart and Him that lives in me. Yet, we are to live by faith in Him. Faith requires us to step out of the logical boxes we place ourselves in and live in Him and He in us. Faith in Him is what changes our hearts. You keep requiring something that nobody can provide. Ask God to show you Himself, with all your heart.

See, what you don't know about me and the majority of atheists and agnostics is we've already been down the christianity road. It's not that we've never "opened our hearts to jesus" or "asked God for guidance." Nothing has ever revealed itself to me and I lived most of my life as a christian. To me, it's very hard to continue to have faith in something that I believe now is just a myth. If it works for you, great. I wouldn't disbelieve either if there had been any proof whatsover. To me, praying to god has the same effect as praying to a brick.

So, from what I read in your words, there is nothing we can say that would encourage you to rethink your feelings toward God?

EXACTLY! I'm not here to be converted. I'm here to understand WHY you guys believe in christianity and how it affects your lives and the lives of people you are around on a daily basis.

Yet, when we tell you, you argue that it is not real. So, are you here to try to understand? If so, then you have to take what we say as true to us and accept that we believe that it is true to all. You may not agree nor like it, but in order to understand why, you do have to accept that we do have faith in a God that you refuse to accept. This must really be hard for you.

[Arthur Durnan]

Gee whiz, my dear "atheist" friend, now are there THREE distinct ways - including YOUR NON-way - to eternal reality? (1.) There IS a heaven & hell; (2.) There isn't a heaven & hell; and YOUR (3rd.) NON-way!! Incredulous beyond comprehension! You're starting to sound like a Christian realist, O, how truly DEFINITIVE of you, ie, You DEFINITELY think there MIGHT be a 3rd way, even a NON-way, precisely NOTHING! HALP! Your "atheist" god Chance fascinates to the bone!

Since you mention Islam - which happens to be one of my major studies - how come you haven't followed thru and tried & tested polygamist WarLord Muhammad's 7th-century "Religion Of The Sword" philosophy - whether Sunni, Shiite, Sufi, etc. - of murder, rape, torture, beheadings, kidnap of one's children, slavery & genocide? Otherwise, why offer it as a truly possible alternate pathway? One will be much more justified in spending quality time with a Richard Swinburne, an Alistar McGrath of Oxford or a Dinesh D'Souza who tended to put Hitchens in a cubby-hole (did you get to the D'Souza WebSite yet?), than with some kind "atheist" friend who states that he/she DOESN'T really know much at all about created order, even suggesting a jiggery-pokery 3rd. NON-way! If there had been music, we'd probably all be dancing by now.

Have a tremendous Resurrection Sunday!

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[caughtinside]

Arthur, who are you replying to and what are you talking about?

[~~ angelique ~~]

The Bible speaks a lot about 'hard heartedness" which makes people blind to the truth.

What do you think that means and do you believe that you are hard hearted?

Sometimes I think people who are considered hard hearted are being mis-labeled. I think that some people have experienced so much pain in their lives that it makes it hard to believe. Some counselors would call it a "wall". The wall goes up to prevent more hurt and pain.

To me, the question would be, is true love the only thing that can melt a hurt heart?

[Arthur Durnan]

Swinburne, McGrath, D'Souza - 1; Caughtoffside - 0. The Follies of "atheism" with its supercilious twaddle including its god 'Sheer Chance' oughta be on the Stage. There's one leaving in 20-minutes.

http;//arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[sweetycakes]

Swinburne, McGrath, D'Souza - 1; Caughtoffside - 0. The Follies of "atheism" with its supercilious twaddle including its god 'Sheer Chance' oughta be on the Stage. There's one leaving in 20-minutes.

http;//arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

Arthur..........you are my hero

Can't understand most of what you are saying..........but you say it so well :blink: