Is Hell an Allegory?

[Mudcat]

You are not alone in your belief's about God being looked at as being cruel as there are many who share the same view.

But it is not God's intention to destroy the people who do unrighteous in the world but God is going through a cleansing process where he is taking all unrighteousness out of the world.

"God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have ever lasting life. God made a way for every human being that would ever be born to accept the sacrifice for the atonement for their sins and there is no excuse. Either one repents of their unrighteousness or they stay in their own wickedness. When one makes that choice then that persons sins will be destroyed and cast out. But the way I see it is that it is a beautiful thing that God is taking all wickedness out and we shall have a new heaven and a new earth and it will be grand to live in a place where no wickedness resides no murders no pain and so forth as that is what the original sin brought to us in this present world. But one day God will finish up the cleansing process and we can go home to live with Christ our Lord and Saviour forever in a world where no sin abides only good.

OC

Hey OC,

I want to make sure I am understanding you here. Bold Mine. It sounds like you are saying that all people will get a chance to hear the Gospel and decide what they will decide. Have I got that right?

[Openly Curious]

You are not alone in your belief's about God being looked at as being cruel as there are many who share the same view.

But it is not God's intention to destroy the people who do unrighteous in the world but God is going through a cleansing process where he is taking all unrighteousness out of the world.

"God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have ever lasting life. God made a way for every human being that would ever be born to accept the sacrifice for the atonement for their sins and there is no excuse. Either one repents of their unrighteousness or they stay in their own wickedness. When one makes that choice then that persons sins will be destroyed and cast out. But the way I see it is that it is a beautiful thing that God is taking all wickedness out and we shall have a new heaven and a new earth and it will be grand to live in a place where no wickedness resides no murders no pain and so forth as that is what the original sin brought to us in this present world. But one day God will finish up the cleansing process and we can go home to live with Christ our Lord and Saviour forever in a world where no sin abides only good.

OC

Hey OC,

I want to make sure I am understanding you here. Bold Mine. It sounds like you are saying that all people will get a chance to hear the Gospel and decide what they will decide. Have I got that right?

Here is where I get the principles behind my personal beliefs that I shared with you.

Romans 1:32--"Who knowing the judgement of God that they which commit such things are worthy of death not only do the same but have pleasure in them that do them.

Romans 2:1--"Therefore Thou art "INEXCUSCUSABLE" O man whosoever thou art that judgeth for wherein thou judgeth another thou condemeth thyself for thou that judgeth doest the same things....

There is a place in Revelation which I will give the scripture to you as I ask your forgiveness as I am having trouble seeing today and it's hard having to use a magnifying glass.

But the scriptures are showing the angelic host or messengers during the end time going forth and preaching to all the world just as Jesus said would happen in the last days, I hope you will read each of the angelic gospel message as you will see it is the angels of God who will preach and warn people to repent and not to take the mark of the beast.

Revelation 14:6-12

OC

[Mudcat]

You are not alone in your belief's about God being looked at as being cruel as there are many who share the same view.

But it is not God's intention to destroy the people who do unrighteous in the world but God is going through a cleansing process where he is taking all unrighteousness out of the world.

"God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have ever lasting life. God made a way for every human being that would ever be born to accept the sacrifice for the atonement for their sins and there is no excuse. Either one repents of their unrighteousness or they stay in their own wickedness. When one makes that choice then that persons sins will be destroyed and cast out. But the way I see it is that it is a beautiful thing that God is taking all wickedness out and we shall have a new heaven and a new earth and it will be grand to live in a place where no wickedness resides no murders no pain and so forth as that is what the original sin brought to us in this present world. But one day God will finish up the cleansing process and we can go home to live with Christ our Lord and Saviour forever in a world where no sin abides only good.

OC

Hey OC,

I want to make sure I am understanding you here. Bold Mine. It sounds like you are saying that all people will get a chance to hear the Gospel and decide what they will decide. Have I got that right?

Here is where I get the principles behind my personal beliefs that I shared with you.

Romans 1:32--"Who knowing the judgement of God that they which commit such things are worthy of death not only do the same but have pleasure in them that do them.

Romans 2:1--"[u[Therefore Thou art "INEXCUSCUSABLE" O man whosoever thou art that judgeth for wherein thou judgeth another thou condemeth thyself for thou that judgeth doest the same things....

There is a place in Revelation which I will give the scripture to you as I ask your forgiveness as I am having trouble seeing today and it's hard having to use a magnifying glass.

But the scriptures are showing the angelic host or messengers during the end time going forth and preaching to all the world just as Jesus said would happen in the last days, I hope you will read each of the angelic gospel message as you will see it is the angels of God who will preach and warn people to repent and not to take the mark of the beast.

Revelation 14:6-12

OC

Hey OC, sorry your eyes are bothering you, hope they get better.

Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Rev 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

I could see perhaps that these angelic messengers could impact whether all those who live in the very last days here the Gospel.

But do you feel that those ,potential billions, that have died without the word of Christ, even once, receive any benefit from those angelic messages.

I don't see it in Scripture, I guess that is why I look upon the concept of so many suffering eternally, when they weren't ever given a choice.....as something that seems "out of character"....from this Saviour we have, he is a God of justice, mercy, love and truth among other things...after all.

I'm still not sure I am understanding your thoughts as clearly as I would like.

Thanks for your responses so far, I appreciate the dialog.

Mudcat

[AnotherTraveler]

Mudcat,

A principle truth concerning God is that He is righteous. No one will be condemned without true and fair judgment, which includes the certain hope that we are ALL called with one hope of our calling. How God accomplishes that, I don't know, but I am certain that His Gospel comes to all, and all have an opportunity according to God's will.

God is not unrighteous. Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

[Openly Curious]

You are not alone in your belief's about God being looked at as being cruel as there are many who share the same view.

But it is not God's intention to destroy the people who do unrighteous in the world but God is going through a cleansing process where he is taking all unrighteousness out of the world.

"God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have ever lasting life. God made a way for every human being that would ever be born to accept the sacrifice for the atonement for their sins and there is no excuse. Either one repents of their unrighteousness or they stay in their own wickedness. When one makes that choice then that persons sins will be destroyed and cast out. But the way I see it is that it is a beautiful thing that God is taking all wickedness out and we shall have a new heaven and a new earth and it will be grand to live in a place where no wickedness resides no murders no pain and so forth as that is what the original sin brought to us in this present world. But one day God will finish up the cleansing process and we can go home to live with Christ our Lord and Saviour forever in a world where no sin abides only good.

OC

Hey OC,

I want to make sure I am understanding you here. Bold Mine. It sounds like you are saying that all people will get a chance to hear the Gospel and decide what they will decide. Have I got that right?

Here is where I get the principles behind my personal beliefs that I shared with you.

Romans 1:32--"Who knowing the judgement of God that they which commit such things are worthy of death not only do the same but have pleasure in them that do them.

Romans 2:1--"Therefore Thou art "INEXCUSCUSABLE" O man whosoever thou art that judgeth for wherein thou judgeth another thou condemeth thyself for thou that judgeth doest the same things....

There is a place in Revelation which I will give the scripture to you as I ask your forgiveness as I am having trouble seeing today and it's hard having to use a magnifying glass.

But the scriptures are showing the angelic host or messengers during the end time going forth and preaching to all the world just as Jesus said would happen in the last days, I hope you will read each of the angelic gospel message as you will see it is the angels of God who will preach and warn people to repent and not to take the mark of the beast.

Revelation 14:6-12

OC

Hey OC, sorry your eyes are bothering you, hope they get better.

Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Rev 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

I could see perhaps that these angelic messengers could impact whether all those who live in the very last days here the Gospel.

But do you feel that those ,potential billions, that have died without the word of Christ, even once, receive any benefit from those angelic messages.

I don't see it in Scripture, I guess that is why I look upon the concept of so many suffering eternally, when they weren't ever given a choice.....as something that seems "out of character"....from this Saviour we have, he is a God of justice, mercy, love and truth among other things...after all.

I'm still not sure I am understanding your thoughts as clearly as I would like.

Thanks for your responses so far, I appreciate the dialog.

Mudcat

First I thank you for your concern with the problem with my eyes it is appreciated very much.

Okay, I'll go a little further Mudcat I think I am understanding you. There is a spiritual law and a natural law in operation in the world we live in.

Romans 1:28--"And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient."

There is a natural law in effect where everyone is subject to like what goes up will come down again. Every day we get up and the sun shines faithfully and the dogs bark the birds sing and at night the moon shines the stars sparkle and this happens every single day all around us we can see the hand of God in it all without even hearing one gospel message as the things around us tells us there is a God and so it is with everyone on the face of the earth some will reject God and want retain God in their knowledge and so what happens to those who reject God is that God gives them over to their own lust and they end up worshipping the creation instead of God in whom they reject and throw God out of their minds as they will not serve Him.

It is very clear that in the end-times these angels of God will preach the message they were given as it says in Matthew 24:14--" And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations and then shall the end come."

The angels that God chose will preach the gospel to all the world, and warn people not to take the mark of the beast or his name so the people living in the end times are without excuse if they do not heed their warnings. God is a God of mercy love and compassion not only in the end times but right now during our time but if a person rejects God by natural law then they are without excuse because God revealed it unto them through creation.

Everyone of us has a choice every single day to accept God in our knowledge or to through Him out of our knowlege and those who do this refuse to worship God but worship their ownselves as a result. We all are without excuse if reject the Creator of the universe we live in.

As far as those billions of people you spoke of do I think that they will benefit from those angelic messenger I would say yes without a doubt for example the first angel preached the message to all the nations and of course whenever the gospel is preach you react in faith and you are saved. Then you have the angel that goes forth and warns eveybody not to take the mark of the beast or take his name. And those people who listened to the warnings of that angel you will find that God spared them if you would read further on in scriptures. But even in wrath God grants mercy to all on the face of the earth so I wouls say that is a huge benefit.

I hope I have helped. And I also have enjoyed conversing with you

OC

[Mudcat]

First I thank you for your concern with the problem with my eyes it is appreciated very much.

Okay, I'll go a little further Mudcat I think I am understanding you. There is a spiritual law and a natural law in operation in the world we live in.

Romans 1:28--"And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient."

There is a natural law in effect where everyone is subject to like what goes up will come down again. Every day we get up and the sun shines faithfully and the dogs bark the birds sing and at night the moon shines the stars sparkle and this happens every single day all around us we can see the hand of God in it all without even hearing one gospel message as the things around us tells us there is a God and so it is with everyone on the face of the earth some will reject God and want retain God in their knowledge and so what happens to those who reject God is that God gives them over to their own lust and they end up worshipping the creation instead of God in whom they reject and throw God out of their minds as they will not serve Him.

It is very clear that in the end-times these angels of God will preach the message they were given as it says in Matthew 24:14--" And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations and then shall the end come."

The angels that God chose will preach the gospel to all the world, and warn people not to take the mark of the beast or his name so the people living in the end times are without excuse if they do not heed their warnings. God is a God of mercy love and compassion not only in the end times but right now during our time but if a person rejects God by natural law then they are without excuse because God revealed it unto them through creation.

Everyone of us has a choice every single day to accept God in our knowledge or to through Him out of our knowlege and those who do this refuse to worship God but worship their ownselves as a result. We all are without excuse if reject the Creator of the universe we live in.

As far as those billions of people you spoke of do I think that they will benefit from those angelic messenger I would say yes without a doubt for example the first angel preached the message to all the nations and of course whenever the gospel is preach you react in faith and you are saved. Then you have the angel that goes forth and warns eveybody not to take the mark of the beast or take his name. And those people who listened to the warnings of that angel you will find that God spared them if you would read further on in scriptures. But even in wrath God grants mercy to all on the face of the earth so I wouls say that is a huge benefit.

I hope I have helped. And I also have enjoyed conversing with you

OC

Hey OC,

I think that cleared up, my understanding of your perspective.

You seem to believe all will get a chance to hear the Gospel and make a decision, at some point. Therefore, Hell is just.

To be quite honest, that is also my leaning. I'm still not sure about fire and brimstone, but I would agree it is real, eternal and a place of suffering apart from God.

God Bless,

Mudcat

[dgolvach]

I believe God puts deep desires in us that can only be fufilled by him. It drives some of us to him through his grace. (Jesus) If we choose, we can live eternally with no chance of ever scratching this itch which is far greater than we know. Our souls are created to link to him and without him its hell. A place of no hope. I believe what will make heaven heaven is the fact that God gives himself to us. Its what all of us need to not be in this horrific vacuum of unfufillment and discontent. And I have a feeling that its as horrible as fire and brimstone if not far worse. All of the things we depend on come from God. Imagine an eternal place where he is not available. Of course the lost don't understand that the good things they depend on depend on God giving it to them.

Allegory? I don't know for sure but the point is...DON'T GO!

Dan

[Openly Curious]

I believe God puts deep desires in us that can only be fufilled by him. It drives some of us to him through his grace. (Jesus) If we choose, we can live eternally with no chance of ever scratching this itch which is far greater than we know. Our souls are created to link to him and without him its hell. A place of no hope. I believe what will make heaven heaven is the fact that God gives himself to us. Its what all of us need to not be in this horrific vacuum of unfufillment and discontent. And I have a feeling that its as horrible as fire and brimstone if not far worse. All of the things we depend on come from God. Imagine an eternal place where he is not available. Of course the lost don't understand that the good things they depend on depend on God giving it to them.

Allegory? I don't know for sure but the point is...DON'T GO!

Dan

Spoken eloquently

oc

[Guest]

I could really use your prayers

[deut31:12]

Hell is a real place, IMO, a place where the damned are separated from God for eternity, decomposed hulks left in the dark at the mercy of satan, with all hope gone. I can think of no worse place to spend forever...can you?

Actually they will not be at the mercy of satan, as satan will also be in torment along with his demon followers and the unsaved. There will be no lines of or ranks of authority.

Hell was originally created for Satan and his angels.

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: - Matthew 25:41