American Idol

[Guest LadyC]

oh, and it IS biblical.

do the words "flee from temptation" ring a bell?

kissing is a wonderful thing... a beautiful thing, and yes, it is a fun thing. it is also a very intimate thing that arouses passion... i.e. temptation.

[mrs]

smiles...

Trust me...I'm not mad or angry about this. The guy can do as he pleases. Now try not to take this the wrong way...but I think you have a messed up view of relationships. Maybe you've been a bad one, or two. The idea that a guy is not treating you right, or that you are the object of "barely restrained lust" just because there is a sign of affection...well thats whack. You use words like "push" and "demanding." I can assure you that I kissed my wife before marriage...and it was entirely mutual! I can also tell you that i was a virgin when I married too. There was no pushing or demanding. Any desire to go further was put in check with self-control. Yep, you guessed it...good 'ol self-control. Now...if I thought for a minute that kissing my wife would have led to pre-maritial sex...that it would have diminshed my self-control somehow (which is possible)...I would have done the same thing that the American Idol guy did. What I wouldn't have done is gone and told everyone else that they are doing it wrong and that I am somehow better to my future wife than they are. That would be arrogant. Just because one guy is weak...doesn't make them all weak.

Lastly...you being a young Christian female have every right to be impressed with ANY guy who is seeking after God, and who sets high goals for themselves. I am certain that this guy will make some girl very happy someday.

I never implied that it was wrong to show affection,nor do I have a messed up view of it, nor have I been in a bad one. And lol man you sure put a lot of weight on that good 'ol self control of yours. Don't know whatever happened to fleeing youthful lusts but hey. Is that what you will tell your daughter when she's dating? Hey hon go ahead and enjoy it just remember to exercise that excellent self-control before it goes too far...

You're also very wrong to call him weak; it ain't weakness it is wisdom. However I think others have done a good job of showing you why his viewpoint is sound; but you will not accept it.

[Axxman]

Look...you guys got me wrong. I have NO PROBLEMS with abstinence. I have NO PROBLEMS with this guy using it as a platform to further his career. If you don't think he's doing that...fine. I happen to think he is because its ALL he has. It was his ONE issue. It remains his ONE issue. Its what his ONE song is about. Its what he continually promotes as the ONE way to do things. If this guy (and anyone else for that matter) can't kiss a girl without controlling himself then he's got issues anyways. He's weak. Thats okay, because we all have our weaknesses. But just because he's weak in that area gives him NO RIGHT (nor the rest of you) to act as if the rest of us have to be weak. He is to be commended for recognizing his weakness...he is utterly wrong for assuming that everyone else is weak too.

Now to prove my point...Amy Catherine Flynn was on American Idol too. Shes the one who actually gave Simon Cowell an abstinence speech about WHY he should wait for marriage. She also got 3 approving votes to go to Hollywood based on her singing. But were not discussing her here are we? Why not? Because she isn't using it as a gimmick. She isn't doing weekly interviews promoting her own brand of extra-biblical rules to everyone who will listen. In fact, on Idol she became quite close to another male singer and even hugged him (egads!!!) I'm happy to report that the STARS (Students Teaching and Respecting Sexuality) spokesperson was able to handle physical contact without losing her virginity. She is involved in the same "Silver Ring Thing" and does the same abtinence programs as Dickinson...the difference is....she isn't making stuff up. Pre-marital sex is against biblical principles...kissing is not!

BTW...I agree with Butero...we do need more people that swim against the tide to promote morality. I am wholeheartedly for that. As long as it is biblical morality. Not man-made morality. Once you start making up rules you lose credibility. Everyone keeps talking about how great a standard this guy has...and its a crock! You guys want your daughter around a guy who is afraid he won't be able to control himself? Now props to him for recognizing his weaknesses...but seriously. When we start accepting man-made rules as biblical then you are opening pandora's box.

Here's what I'm gonna do... I'm gonna write the guy. I'll ask him straight up. If I've misjudged him...I'll apologize. I will also put his response (if I get one) on here so that we'll all know. If he checks his myspace (and I'm guessing he does regularly)...it should only be a couple days.

[Guest LadyC]

Everyone keeps talking about how great a standard this guy has...and its a crock! You guys want your daughter around a guy who is afraid he won't be able to control himself? Now props to him for recognizing his weaknesses...but seriously. When we start accepting man-made rules as biblical then you are opening pandora's box.

i would LOVE for my daughters to have dated men who admitted that they were afraid they wouldn't be able to control themselves if they started kissing. (but alas, my daughters, at least my oldest one, wouldn't have given them a chance! and my youngest daughter wouldn't have had a child while she was in high school.) and the reason i would have loved it, is because it is using godly wisdom and shows the girl not only respect, but a commitment to self restraint. there are very, very few guys in the world who are able to control themselves indefinitely. kissing leads to petting, petting leads to heavy petting, heavy petting leads to the clothes being relegated to a pile next to the bed... or couch... or whatever. sooner or later, EVERY guy, without exception, struggles with temptation. they may or may not give into it, but more do than don't before they say "i do".

this isn't a man-made rule he is going by, it is his personal conviction. but i'd like to know why you think it is so UNbiblical? again, i ask, do the words "flee from temptation" ring a bell? those words are straight from scripture. even you will have to admit that by not kissing, he's certainly avoiding the temptation of going too far.

i would like to know where the bible even hints that unmarried couples SHOULD be kissing. THAT, imo, is unbiblical to even suggest it.

(and i'm not talking about the kiss of jacob and rachel... there is no scriptural evidence to support that THAT was a kiss of passion or longing. they'd never even seen each other before and he'd just found out that she was his kin.... most likely that was a standard kiss of greeting, given on the cheek, although probably more enthusiastically than normal, since he did find her beautiful. but nowhere in scripture does it imply that they swapped spit.)

[nebula]

Look...you guys got me wrong. I have NO PROBLEMS with abstinence. I have NO PROBLEMS with this guy using it as a platform to further his career. If you don't think he's doing that...fine. I happen to think he is because its ALL he has. It was his ONE issue. It remains his ONE issue. Its what his ONE song is about. Its what he continually promotes as the ONE way to do things.

For someone who has been involved in the music industry, I am surprised you are so quick to lay the promotion on his shoulders.

From the article linked to in the OP:

Denny Pattyn, founder and president of Silver Ring Thing, a faith-based community-targeted abstinence program, is also excited to have hosted Dickson performing and speaking about purity at two events in Florida.

[Marnie]

He has also said that he thinks guys that kiss before marriage are being dishonest with their wives. I happen to think he's wrong about that and that he has NO biblical basis for those opinions.

By the way, here's something to consider:

If you kiss a girl that you don't marry, then in essence you have kissed another man's wife.

Think about that.

I love you Neb, but you totally lost me on that one. lol

I don't agree with all of the Axxman's ideas in this post, I do tend to go along with his premise. The no kissing-before-marriage is hilarious to me. However, and I really want to stress this, if it is your conviction, then don't you do it. It isn't a Biblical admonition, so nobody has a "right" to inflict the kissing-abstinence rule on the rest of the Body of Christ.

what's really disturbing to me is that is awful show is still on the air!

[jackie d]

I wouldn't consider marrying a man who would not kiss me before we were married. It would be just my luck he would be a terrible kisser and after the wedding would be much to late to back out. And yes, I mean it..... ...a person can still set boundries and be chaste until they are married even though they share a kiss.

[Gerioke]

He has also said that he thinks guys that kiss before marriage are being dishonest with their wives. I happen to think he's wrong about that and that he has NO biblical basis for those opinions.

By the way, here's something to consider:

If you kiss a girl that you don't marry, then in essence you have kissed another man's wife.

Think about that.

I love you Neb, but you totally lost me on that one. lol

I don't agree with all of the Axxman's ideas in this post, I do tend to go along with his premise. The no kissing-before-marriage is hilarious to me. However, and I really want to stress this, if it is your conviction, then don't you do it. It isn't a Biblical admonition, so nobody has a "right" to inflict the kissing-abstinence rule on the rest of the Body of Christ.

what's really disturbing to me is that is awful show is still on the air!

Aside from the name, what makes this show so awful?

[kat8585]

I kind of like it at times. There is some real talent sometimes.

[Gerioke]

I kind of like it at times. There is some real talent sometimes.

My sentiments as well. I can't see how it's any worse than owning a pop record or watching a secular movie. As a matter of fact there has been plenty of Christian content this year.