Christian Metal

[stacey c]

The only problem that I see with it, is that the 'image' is not that different than the 'worlds'. I do know they reach some kids that other wise would not hear the Gospel.

May I ask a question?

If my Church was having a Rap concert for the youth how many kids do you think would come if they were into metal? And vise versa. If my Church was having a rock concert how many kids would come if they liked rap?

I believe all things were created by God and for God. God can turn anything for His glory

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Amen, Atonement. It's about time that believers took back all the things the devil has stole!!!!

The Devil stole Heavy Metal?

Yes he has. God created music to make a joyful noise unto Him, gave us dance to dance before the Lord, He gave us the shout to break through our circumstances. Today too many church folk don't do this in church because they think it's not holy or proper church etiquette, but we have no problem

shouting, dancing, or jumping up and down when our favorite football team wins the super bowl. How about giving our all to The King who saved us, after all thats why HE gav us these things. Be Blessed.

...And apparently there is no problem when a football player thanks Jesus for helping them with the Superbowl. Did God invent football too? If He did then it must be okay to stay at home and watch the game on a Sunday afternoon when we should be at the meeting.

I don;t believe that the Devil "stole" Heavy Metal. Heavy metal came about as the result of purely worldly influences - and I would argue, demonic influences. So there's no way the church can "take back" something that was never ours to begin with.

I would agree that the devil has influenced the evolution of ALL music to what it is today be it heavy metal, rock and roll, rap, R&B, country. We would just have to listen to the lyrics to know that. But God gave us the talents to create music to glorify Him withm the devil has stolen it from us by perverting it for fleshy purposes. So why would it not be possible to put Him back into it for His glory?

[psalmone]

As far as metal goes, if that is what a person wants to listen to then thats fine. In all reality all music in some shape or form uses elements that seem worldly. I like listening to Christian rap. I won't call it holy hip hop, for hip hip is not holy. God does not take the means and make it holy. He takes the person and makes them holy. So IF God desires to use one who is in such a platform He has every right. I just pray that these ones give it to Him so He can decide to use it. Most of us think because I done it in in the world I can bring it over to Him. NO!! He has to break it before He blesses it. Then it is fit for giving out.

well explained.

[Atonement]

Atonement,

May I ask why, if you already had your mind made up on the matter, you asked for our opinion? If you were truly honest in your asking then you should be willing to accept that some of us may have a different opinion than yours on the matter. Instead you appear to be resolute in your decision and have chosen to defend your own opinion.

1st I must tell you that I will respond with a humble heart, and my responses may not sound to humble, but I assure you that I have my heart in the best intentions when answering your sincere questions. God Bless you my friend

Can you offer anything against truth? Like proving music is a sin (any music)? I brought this topic up to see how some walk with Christ. To see if the Church does indeed put God in a box, and to understand why the body of Christ would say so.. This topic suited the best on the list.. I was going to use movies at first, but I went with this instead. If you disagree with me, that is fine, I'm looking for a some sort proven answers, and the leaven argument you are using also implies to the Internet, your TV, Your movies, your music (what ever it may be). I bet you listen to country huh? That's cool if you do, but don't get me started on the artist songs on country music. Drinking, partying, smoking, fornication, cheating, all music has these.

In Matthew 13:13 and 16:6,11-12 there is the leaven of the Pharisees, which is false doctrine (Also Mark 8:15 includes the leaven of Herod, which is hypocrisy)

In 1 Cor. 5:6,8 leaven represents evil things such as boasting and self-glorification.

In Gal. 5:9, which I referenced in my post, leaven indicates the erroneous teachings of the Judaizer's concerning circumcision which, in type, represents mixture.

So you say nothing good can come from metal music because of "leaven"? Again I ask why are you on the Internet Ovedya? If nothing good can mix per your conditions? Did you know that the Internet was first used as a undergound black market? Can not the body of Christ worship God through any type of music and the Internet? Sure we can.. So it sounds like the God you serve then, you wrap Him up in a box and seal it with conditions. Sorry but the God I serve is one who is mighter than that.

The principal leaven signifies is anything foreign to that which God has ordained. Leaven itself is an element which causes dough to rise. Leavened bread is "fluffy" and airy, whereas leavened bread is solid, pure, and substantive. In fact, leavening, yeast, is a bacteria which grows with the heat and moisture of the bread, and reproduces and spreads to the whole lump, until the whole lump is leavened.

Anything foreign to God? Well then I must ask that you sale your TV, DVD player and VCR, also all your CD's, because there goes movies, country music, rap music, metal music, blues, classical, jazz etc.. But wait a sec.. How can you say that God did not ordain these type of things to bring glory to Him? You can't, so why argue a point that you can not prove?

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Therefore, in typology the fine flour of the meal offering referenced in Leviticus is the resurrected Christ as the life-giving Spirit (2 Cor. 15:45). The oil in the offering represents the Holy Spirit whereas the fine flour represents Christ. As the life-giving Spirit, the Lord Jesus dwells in our human spirit (typified by the holy of holies). He is the "meal offering" upon which we feast by believing into Him (John 6). To take such an offering and make it impure through the impartation of any worldly element including false teachings, self-glorification or self-exaltation, or any evil thing, is to add leaven.

So are you saying that a person who listens to rock music or who is on the Internet can not be a genuine Christian? Because this is what your are implying here.. So let's say... I took the music to Amazing Grace but I changed the lyrics to Amazing Death.. Or I change the words of "Three wooden Crosses" (Randy Travis) to three broken crosses. Are you saying it will be okay because the music is good? Hmm I don't think that flies to well.. It's all in the lyrics my friend, you are missing this point BIG time..

Therefore, to take something of the world and attempt to mingle it with a practice which, by design, is intended to build up the Body of Christ, is to add leavening. All worldly elements - whether musical entertainment, various distracting teachings or practices - are foreign to the Body of Christ. They are a "bacteria" which spreads until the whole lump is leavened. The Corinthian believers "tolerated" a sinful situation in their midst, but really that no different in principal than tolerating certain worldly elements in the Body of Christ today for the sake of certain person's preferences to music, entertainment, etc. As God's people we should not allow any leavening among us, in all our territory.

Again maybe you should cancel your Internet service provider.. Because if you are going to preach it.. you should live by it.. My God, Jesus Christ, King of Kings and Lord of Lords can use ALL THINGS for His Glory.. Sad it's truly sad because of how many kids have been touched in their spirit and have come to know Christ as their personal Lord and Savior at a Christian rock concert, and yet you blasphemy against the Holy Spirit and His doing, saying that it's "leaven".. You say when did I blasphemy? I say re-read all what you wrote. It's truly sadens my heart to think that there are people who believe such things.

Eph 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

By the way I came to Christ at a Christian Rock concert and have been born again since 1991. I was into Satanism, drugs, fornication, and idolship. I never once looked back nor have I touched drugs, nor fornicated since I came to the Lord. So now you know why I take this subject to heart.. But to you, I must have had just an emotional experience. Because surley God could not use Metal music for His glory.. Shameful my friend.. God Bless you in your walk with the Lord.

[Atonement]

Man .. a few hours ago this thread was very polite and now its turned into an arguement

does it need to be? Atonement, everyone on the boards comes from different backgrounds, has different experiences, views and opinions. It doesn't say anywhere in the bible that christian rap, metal, rock, pop, reggae, techno ect are sins. Everyone has their different tastes in music and their own convictions. Just because someone likes the christian metal, one doesn't or one even only like hymns .. its ok! Not only one has to be correct. Your going to find, atonement, that not everyone will always agree with you and its ok to take your stand on issues, defend things .. but choose your battles wisely and try to take things with a grain of salt. Those who haven't agreed with you here aren't meaning to come down on you personally, just giving their personal opinions as you did ask for it.

Love in Christ

I totally agree with you 100% But this is not what has happened here. One started to speak about leaven and stated it should not be mixed with believers, and using metal music an a prime example. That is where a line should be drawn, who could say such a thing? As I stated at the beginning of this topic.. Please leave your music taste at the door. I don't mind if they hate metal music, but one can not say that our God can not use it for His glory. This is where this topic has lead off too. My argument is God can..

[Burning_Ember]

It depends on what kind of metal. The more melodic types, yes. If the beat and melody are practically indiscernable, then I tend to dislike it.

[Ovedya]

The only problem that I see with it, is that the 'image' is not that different than the 'worlds'. I do know they reach some kids that other wise would not hear the Gospel.

May I ask a question?

If my Church was having a Rap concert for the youth how many kids do you think would come if they were into metal? And vise versa. If my Church was having a rock concert how many kids would come if they liked rap?

I believe all things were created by God and for God. God can turn anything for His glory

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Amen, Atonement. It's about time that believers took back all the things the devil has stole!!!!

The Devil stole Heavy Metal?

Yes he has. God created music to make a joyful noise unto Him, gave us dance to dance before the Lord, He gave us the shout to break through our circumstances. Today too many church folk don't do this in church because they think it's not holy or proper church etiquette, but we have no problem

shouting, dancing, or jumping up and down when our favorite football team wins the super bowl. How about giving our all to The King who saved us, after all thats why HE gav us these things. Be Blessed.

...And apparently there is no problem when a football player thanks Jesus for helping them with the Superbowl. Did God invent football too? If He did then it must be okay to stay at home and watch the game on a Sunday afternoon when we should be at the meeting.

I don;t believe that the Devil "stole" Heavy Metal. Heavy metal came about as the result of purely worldly influences - and I would argue, demonic influences. So there's no way the church can "take back" something that was never ours to begin with.

I would agree that the devil has influenced the evolution of ALL music to what it is today be it heavy metal, rock and roll, rap, R&B, country. We would just have to listen to the lyrics to know that. But God gave us the talents to create music to glorify Him withm the devil has stolen it from us by perverting it for fleshy purposes. So why would it not be possible to put Him back into it for His glory?

So then, by reason, if "music" (That is, "the production of sound by means of instrumentation") today is of the devil - having been influenced by the devil to the point of complete degradation, why would we want to "bring it back" into the realm of worship? Why would we even want to attempt to change what is inherently evil in the first place? I think that if you examine the situation more carefully it really has more to do with what we want or desire, and what satisfies us more than God, than what God wants and what satisfies Him the most.

[Ovedya]

Can you offer anything against truth? Like proving music is a sin (any music)? I brought this topic up to see how some walk with Christ. To see if the Church does indeed put God in a box, and to understand why the body of Christ would say so.. This topic suited the best on the list.. I was going to use movies at first, but I went with this instead. If you disagree with me, that is fine, I'm looking for a some sort proven answers, and the leaven argument you are using also implies to the Internet, your TV, Your movies, your music (what ever it may be). I bet you listen to country huh? That's cool if you do, but don't get me started on the artist songs on country music. Drinking, partying, smoking, fornication, cheating, all music has these.

Well first off I do not listen to country. I happen to not like country. Are you putting me in a box because my profile says I live in Idaho?

Secondly, you are presuming that, by my argument against "Christian Heavy Metal" I am implying that all music is inherently evil. That is not my argument at all, so please don't make it out to be something that it is not.

Third, your example of the internet, T.V. and movies doesn't relate to the subject. You are attempting to form a straw man argument with these subjects.

So you say nothing good can come from metal music because of "leaven"? Again I ask why are you on the Internet Ovedya? If nothing good can mix per your conditions? Did you know that the Internet was first used as a undergound black market? Can not the body of Christ worship God through any type of music and the Internet? Sure we can.. So it sounds like the God you serve then, you wrap Him up in a box and seal it with conditions. Sorry but the God I serve is one who is mighter than that.

Okay, let's take your "God in a box" argument a step further, shall we? There is not a single specific prohibition against the taking of drugs in the Bible. Therefore if I use your argumentative formula I should be able to justify the use of, say, marijuana in my worship. Because, one, I would be "putting God in a box" if I prohibited the free use of something that God created; and two, since marijuana is something that God created (As "music" is also something that God created) I should be able to use it freely, without restriction, in worship. After all, "God is mightier" than any restriction or conditions that I could put on worship, right? What about mescaline. or those psychedelic mushrooms they cultivate in Washington? Those are natural plants that, simply by eating them produce a psychedelic high. God created them as they are. Why can't I take them, and praise God?

Doesn't really work, does it?

Secondly, the internet was first invented by university professors that wanted to access information and communicate more effectively. The internet started as "Usenet" and built from there. Look it up. The internet had no connections whatsoever with the black market. The argument doesn't hold up in any case since the internet does not at all compare with Heavy Metal Music. They are complete different forms of media.

Anything foreign to God? Well then I must ask that you sale your TV, DVD player and VCR, also all your CD's, because there goes movies, country music, rap music, metal music, blues, classical, jazz etc.. But wait a sec.. How can you say that God did not ordain these type of things to bring glory to Him? You can't, so why argue a point that you can not prove?

Where has God ordained them? Again, where has God prohibited the use of drugs in coordination with worship? You can't argue from the negative. You can't say that, because God has not prohibited something that must mean He approves of it.

So are you saying that a person who listens to rock music or who is on the Internet can not be a genuine Christian? Because this is what your are implying here.. So let's say... I took the music to Amazing Grace but I changed the lyrics to Amazing Death.. Or I change the words of "Three wooden Crosses" (Randy Travis) to three broken crosses. Are you saying it will be okay because the music is good? Hmm I don't think that flies to well.. It's all in the lyrics my friend, you are missing this point BIG time..

Ah! So then it's all about the lyrics. So then.....Why not eliminate the music altogether? See, if it's really "all about the lyrics" then we shouldn't need any type of music, right? Then there wouldn't be any "Christian Heavy Metal" or "Christian Rap" or "Christian Punk," etc. What's the music about? I'll tell you: It's about man's preference to man's invention. It rarely has much to do with God other than the lyrics. It's really just mingling the faith with Babylon.

Again maybe you should cancel your Internet service provider.. Because if you are going to preach it.. you should live by it.. My God, Jesus Christ, King of Kings and Lord of Lords can use ALL THINGS for His Glory..

Really? Think again about what you wrote. If you truly mean "all things" than God can use porn for His glory, He can use drug addiction for His glory, He can use death, murder, divorce, greed, gluttony, and everything which we consider evil "for His glory." If you really mean "ALL THINGS" then you should include "ALL THINGS," and by such reasoning I can use drugs freely in worship and partake of pornographic material regularly, calling it "Christian Porn." ....Do you really mean "ALL THINGS" or did you just write that without thinking what "ALL THINGS" imply?

Sad it's truly sad because of how many kids have been touched in their spirit and have come to know Christ as their personal Lord and Savior at a Christian rock concert, and yet you blasphemy against the Holy Spirit and His doing, saying that it's "leaven".. You say when did I blasphemy? I say re-read all what you wrote. It's truly sadens my heart to think that there are people who believe such things.

You don't know what blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is. Watch what you say, brother, because you don't know where you're about to tread.

By the way I came to Christ at a Christian Rock concert and have been born again since 1991. I was into Satanism, drugs, fornication, and idolship. I never once looked back nor have I touched drugs, nor fornicated since I came to the Lord. So now you know why I take this subject to heart.. But to you, I must have had just an emotional experience. Because surley God could not use Metal music for His glory.. Shameful my friend.. God Bless you in your walk with the Lord.

Try not to presume too much about what I'm writing, okay? You really should learn to actually read what a person writes on forums like this and consider them carefully before making remarks as to what the intent is, and what they are actually saying. Your presumptions of my arguments make them to be something that they are not. Read and consider carefully. I've been doing this for a long time, and I think I know a little bit about what I'm talking about here.

[Guest man]

But with bands like Vengeance Rising who hard just as fast and hardcore as some of the best metal bands I've heard and the message is about Salvation, I also do not see a problem with this music because each person has their own taste in music.

Now Chuck was a pastor at a Church in California, but has since denied Christ and turned to Satanism. The band has fought to keep the name Vengeance Rising and is in the studio right now making a new CD..

Apparently Chuck wasn't listening to the message.

[Guest man]

Because Porn, gambling and the black market are "sins"

Actually, gambling's not a sin.

[Emily~Anne]

The lyrics are what counts, and also what emotions the rhythm of the music brings out in you personally.