Suicide

[nebula]

I didn't feel you were arguing that point. My comment concerning God's judgment was for the sake of the thread itself.

OK, thanks for the clarification.

People kill themselves for a number of reasons, mental illness is just one of them.

It may be a sin, but it's not an unforgivable sin. And if it's not an unforgivable sin, what does that tell you?

I agree -

Good word!

[Guest]

I've walked this path. Do you not think I know what the next stage in that line of thought is? Do you not think I've thought and felt the way I have expressed?

Jesus Called And We Answered

The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

Jeremiah 31:3

And We Are Not Our Own

For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

1 Corinthians 6:20

We Belong To God

And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Galatians 4:6

Oh How I Love Jesus

WAR!

The Lier

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

John 8:44

The Shepherd

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

I and my Father are one.

Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

John 10:27-31

The Lier's Daily Meal

And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

Genesis 3:14

The Shepherd Feeds His Flock

And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Matthew 4:3-4

The Lier Seeks To Steal And To Kill And To Destroy

The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

John 10:10

The LORD Seeks To Heal And To Restore And To Save

Heal me, O LORD, and I shall be healed; save me, and I shall be saved: for thou art my praise.

Jeremiah 17:14

The Lier Is Always Seeking And Always Hungry

Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

1 Peter 5:8

The LORD Will Satisfy Those Who Cry Out

Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the LORD shall be thy rereward.

Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity;

And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noonday:

And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.

Isaiah 58:8-11

And He Gives Them His Peace

Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

John 14:27

So Cleave To The LORD

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Jude 1:25-26

To Jesus The Christ

Hallelujah

Amen

[nebula]

Joe, you are awesome!

Thank-you!

[jehovah Nissi]

for reasons known only to Him, He doesn't heal them all here on earth.

Lovinghim,

That's because He allready HAS healed all our illnesses. The redemptive work of the Blood of Christ is complete. He not only died on the cross for our sins, but also for our illnesses, mentally and physically...you name it, if it had anything to do with the curse, Christ has redeemed us from it (Gal 3:13). That is the problem...people are waiting on God to do something when really He allready did it over 2000 years ago. God is waiting on us to receive it!

Maybe this will help clear up some questions on suicide.

Christ's redemptive work is even for the person who is deceived into takeing their own lives. Have you ever been decieved? if they have made Jesus their Lord and savior and they have confessed their sins(the ones that they know are sin), then God is faithfull and just to forgive them their sins AND ALL their unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). ALL their unrighteousness...ALL their unrighteousness...ALL their unrightreousness...ALL their unrighteousness! It is goofy to say that God would send someone to hell just because they killed themselves. The only sin that is ever going to lead to hell is, Jesus talked about it and it has allready been mensioned on this thread, the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. In other words the only sin that ever leads to hell is the rejection of Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior. John 15:26 says that the Holy Spirit "will testify of Me [Christ]." So The Holy Spirit will always tell people that Christ is the only way to salvation, and if they reject that, they are blaspheming the Holy Spirit. What they are saying, in essence, to The Holy Spirit is "your word isn't good enouph for me to trust it, you're a liar, I don't believe you." Sounds like blasphemy to me. So if you can say that every single person that has and will commite sucide has and will reject Christ, then and only then can you say that all people that commit suicide will go to hell. That's my take...hope it helps. I said all that realising that you agree with the fact that not all people that commit suicide go to hell.

J

[yesult]

If you look at the passage where 'the blasphemy of the holy spirit' is mentioned - it was to do with the pharisees rejecting the miracles that jesus did by the power of God - and claimed they were done through the power of satan. The Holy Spirit doesn't always tell people that Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation. Think about all of the millions of catholics, Mormons, JWs, Jews and other segments of christian denominations that trust in works and don't really understand that salvation is through grace and jesus righteousness. Only spirit filled believers really get that.

Are they all going to hell?

And regarding the OP. Mental illness causes some suicides, but not all, as already mentioned. I've written this before - but if you think of it like a big fat encyclopedia placed on a porcelin teacup. That's quite a bit of pressure for a piece of china. Sometimes life and circumstances (like abuse, neglect, betrayal, death of a loved one, serious illness etc) can be put pressure on our lives and our hearts, like that encyclopedia. Pile enough encylopedias on a teacup and it will eventually be crushed. Life can do the same thing (through the work of sin and satan, unltimatly.) It's just a matter of layers. People who have never had those kinds of pressures put on their lives arn't necessarily going to understand that and can just point their finger and blame someone who ends up like a crushed teacup and ends their life.

God is more merciful.

Sometimes people suffer so much that they just give up - and God knows that.

God knows every hair on our head. Do you think he doesn't know every work of the enemy in our hearts as well?

And from a biblical perspective - some people can claim that suicide is murder because you're taking a life. Do all murderers go to hell? The apostle Paul murdered christians and ended up writing two thirds of the new testament. King David murdered a righteous man to cover his adultery and was still called 'a man after Gods own heart'. Why? Because they repented. They were righteous men who made mistakes. (Big mistakes.) But they were mistakes. They didn't get off scott free - but God forgave them.

If God would forgive them - will he not forgive someone crushed by brokeness enough to do something as drastic as suicide, if their hearts are ultimatly for good and righteousness?

Edited July 7, 2008 by yesult

[BlindSeeker]

If you look at the passage where 'the blasphemy of the holy spirit' is mentioned - it was to do with the pharisees rejecting the miracles that jesus did by the power of God - and claimed they were done through the power of satan. The Holy Spirit doesn't always tell people that Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation. Think about all of the millions of catholics, Mormons, JWs, Jews and other segments of christian denominations that trust in works and don't really understand that salvation is through grace and jesus righteousness. Only spirit filled believers really get that.

That is quite a statement . . .

I think its wrong .

[Guest man]

If you look at the passage where 'the blasphemy of the holy spirit' is mentioned - it was to do with the pharisees rejecting the miracles that jesus did by the power of God - and claimed they were done through the power of satan. The Holy Spirit doesn't always tell people that Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation. Think about all of the millions of catholics, Mormons, JWs, Jews and other segments of christian denominations that trust in works and don't really understand that salvation is through grace and jesus righteousness. Only spirit filled believers really get that.

Are they all going to hell?

And regarding the OP. Mental illness causes some suicides, but not all, as already mentioned. I've written this before - but if you think of it like a big fat encyclopedia placed on a porcelin teacup. That's quite a bit of pressure for a piece of china. Sometimes life and circumstances (like abuse, neglect, betrayal, death of a loved one, serious illness etc) can be put pressure on our lives and our hearts, like that encyclopedia. Pile enough encylopedias on a teacup and it will eventually be crushed. Life can do the same thing (through the work of sin and satan, unltimatly.) It's just a matter of layers. People who have never had those kinds of pressures put on their lives arn't necessarily going to understand that and can just point their finger and blame someone who ends up like a crushed teacup and ends their life.

God is more merciful.

Sometimes people suffer so much that they just give up - and God knows that.

God knows every hair on our head. Do you think he doesn't know every work of the enemy in our hearts as well?

And from a biblical perspective - some people can claim that suicide is murder because you're taking a life. Do all murderers go to hell? The apostle Paul murdered christians and ended up writing two thirds of the new testament. King David murdered a righteous man to cover his adultery and was still called 'a man after Gods own heart'. Why? Because they repented. They were righteous men who made mistakes. (Big mistakes.) But they were mistakes. They didn't get off scott free - but God forgave them.

If God would forgive them - will he not forgive someone crushed by brokeness enough to do something as drastic as suicide, if their hearts are ultimatly for good and righteousness?

Good post.

[jehovah Nissi]

If you look at the passage where 'the blasphemy of the holy spirit' is mentioned - it was to do with the pharisees rejecting the miracles that jesus did by the power of God - and claimed they were done through the power of satan. The Holy Spirit doesn't always tell people that Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation. Think about all of the millions of catholics, Mormons, JWs, Jews and other segments of christian denominations that trust in works and don't really understand that salvation is through grace and jesus righteousness. Only spirit filled believers really get that.

So the Holy Spirit isn't trying to reach the unsaved? Think you might want to rethink that a bit. Jesus dosn't say that The Holy Spirit is only going to testify of Me in the believer. Point blank, rejecting Jesus Christ as Lord and savior is blaspheming The Holy Spirit for reasons I mentioned in my last post. And yes that passage of scripture is talking about when the pharisees rejected the miracles that jesus did...but wasn't Jesus doing those miracles by the power of The Holy Spirit who was in Him? When was the last time you went out and did the will of God in and of your own power...can't be done...you have to have the power of The Holy Spirit with you to do His will. The Holy Spirit will always work through God's children to testify of Jesus Christ.

I do agree with you that some people can be so burdened with life that they think the only way out is to kill themselves...as I mentioned in my last post...they were deceived. They didn't quite learn that they could have cast all those cares/burdens on the Lord...no matter how touph the going gets...God is still the God of comfort and strenghth...you just have to put your trust in Him.

J

[nebula]

...The Holy Spirit doesn't always tell people that Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation. Think about all of the millions of catholics, Mormons, JWs, Jews and other segments of christian denominations that trust in works and don't really understand that salvation is through grace and jesus righteousness. Only spirit filled believers really get that.

I appreciate your conclusion, but I'm not sure about this.

And regarding the OP. Mental illness causes some suicides, but not all, as already mentioned. I've written this before - but if you think of it like a big fat encyclopedia placed on a porcelin teacup. That's quite a bit of pressure for a piece of china. . . . . People who have never had those kinds of pressures put on their lives arn't necessarily going to understand that and can just point their finger and blame someone who ends up like a crushed teacup and ends their life.

God is more merciful.

Sometimes people suffer so much that they just give up - and God knows that.

God knows every hair on our head. Do you think he doesn't know every work of the enemy in our hearts as well?

This though, I can agree with.

The spiritual element is important to consider. I am hesitant to say anything because of previous debates over this issue, but judgments can be clouded, screwed up, lost, etc. due to the spiritual element as well.

[Guest lovinghim4ever]

I have struggled with suicide most my life, so please understand my perspective when I say this.

The presentation of this question bothers me.

You see, the way this is worded almost sounds like, "It's God's fault...." Just that subtle: He can heal but He doesn't, therefore He can't condemn the person - because it was in His power to heal but He didn't.

I am so sorry for your struggle with suicide, and I am so sorry I have disturbed you. However, I am by no means trying to blame God. That was NEVER my intention. I will pray about this and will respond when I know how to better explain myself.