Religious Freedom

[JustinM]

I cannot believe you are making a moral equivalence between slavery and homosexuality. Homosexuals aren't being oppressed, they have their pride days, parades, weeks and platforms. They have access to civil unions and the same rights as married couples (to my disdain).

When was the last time a homosexual was chained up and forced to do labor for someone? Better yet, when was the first time? Homosexuals are oppressing Christianity all around the world. Eventhough these pro-homosexual laws violate the 1st and 14th Amendments.

The bible also says that a person isn't to be enslaved for a period longer than 7 years and that people that enslave themselves do so to pay off debts.

Your comments show a profound lack of understanding of Biblical Principles and Christian virtues.

I am completely stunned at how much power and influence the homosexual community has gained around the world in such a short amount of time. I truly believe that supernatural forces propelled these heathens into the mainstream.

Homosexuals don't want marriage, they don't want anything Christian, they only want marriages in Churches to make a mockery of Christianity.

Marriage provides economic and physiological stability.

Homosexuals "divorce" quicker and more frequently than traditional marriages.

[EricH]

I heard that if your a paster or minister, you can loose your license or get sued if you don't marry gay couples. I thought that we had religious freedom, how is this freedom by forcing them to make a choice like that. What happens if more gays then normal marriages. I don't kinow if thats happened yet more gays then normal.

that license is just a piece of paper man has created to "control" what is and is not said behind the pulpit..... GOD IS THE ONLY ONE THAT ACTUALLY ORDAINS THOSE THAT SHARE THE GOSPEL OF JESUS, THE CHRIST. not man.

as far as some one being sued, that has not come to pass yet, not in the USA anyways. there are only two states that now allow it. and actually condone it, God have mercy on their souls, and the souls of anyone else that condones this action or does not speak against it.

if one condones an activity, it is as if they committed the activity themselves......

if they do not speak against it, they are part of it......

mike

As a pastor, my ordination papers were issued by my denomination and not the government. The government cannot pull my ordination, because they did not ordain or license me.

[Shortstop]

Jah loves ALL mankind. His word isnt intented to spread hate. And if so many of my fellow Christians say it is not our place to judge and point fingers, then why do gays suffer such judgement from MEN. If Jah hates gays, then his will will be inforced upon them. While we are ALL here on earth, why not love as our creator created us to.

Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Paul said it best!!!

We can love them without facilitating their sin. If fact, it is more for their sakes than our own that we would not encourage behavior that the Bible so clearly describes as "abomination". We Christians are not judging or condemning homosexuals for being who they are. We simply want no part of it and do NOT wish to have their lifestyles forced upon us.

I have said this before and I will say it one more time. I, myself, would not begrudge homosexual couples any legal rights provided to them in a "legal" union. However, these unions should not be considered "marriages". For those of us who call ourselves Christians, marriage is "Holy Matrimony", a commitment and promise made, between an Man and a Woman, in the sight of God. Not a legal union or a contract. The fact that ministers, priests or pastors should be "licensed" to perform religious ceremonies is unconstitutional in my point of view. Again we come back to the so called "separation of church and state". These days the state has inserted itself as the authority which decides who is and isn't "married". It's no wonder divorce is rampant in western countries. They have taken God out of virtually every facet of life. When people understood their marriage was a commitment to both their spouse AND GOD, they tended to take it a little more seriously and did not divorce on a whim. This is why there are so many broken homes and so many children who have no understanding of what a Family is or it's importance in properly raising a child. This is the kind of decay that is rotting our once great nation into oblivion. A country of people who are willfully and blissfully ignorant of sin and unwittingly mollify those around them into thinking that sin is acceptable in the eyes of God. THIS cannot be "tolerated". Sin is sin and lest we reject it AND those who do not turn from it we do those sinners a grave injustice, by resisting our responsibility to set the example. It's called "tough love" and any parent would understand that we only encourage sin when we ignore it.

Well said...

[Aleksander]

I know this is a bit off topic, but here is a website that we all should check out: Click.

I am guessing that this is but a begining stages of how this abomination will find its way into the church.

[seekeratthesea]

I heard that if your a paster or minister, you can loose your license or get sued if you don't marry gay couples. I thought that we had religious freedom, how is this freedom by forcing them to make a choice like that. What happens if more gays then normal marriages. I don't kinow if thats happened yet more gays then normal.

Is there actually an article link for what you heard. I did a real quick yahoo search and didn't find anything out. Plus I'm in California where gay marriage is an issue because the court just overturned the ban on gay marriage which was put in place by vote of the people in 2000.

But I've heard nothing about preachers losing a license for refusal to perform the weddings.......which would be adding insult to injury. To be honest, I doubt gay groups would be dumb enough to push for something like that (at this time) because it would create a backlash...........which is already on the way anyway. I understand they would love it to be that way.....but from a realistic perspective, it would hurt them to even push for it, and I think they know it.

[LadyRaven]

I heard that if your a paster or minister, you can loose your license or get sued if you don't marry gay couples. I thought that we had religious freedom, how is this freedom by forcing them to make a choice like that. What happens if more gays then normal marriages. I don't kinow if thats happened yet more gays then normal.

Is there actually an article link for what you heard. I did a real quick yahoo search and didn't find anything out.

Yeah, if there is a link, I want to read it for myself. They *might* if the courts are liberal enough, take away the tax examption but I dont think they can be sued unless they are a church that openly embraces gays...

[seekeratthesea]

I heard that if your a paster or minister, you can loose your license or get sued if you don't marry gay couples. I thought that we had religious freedom, how is this freedom by forcing them to make a choice like that. What happens if more gays then normal marriages. I don't kinow if thats happened yet more gays then normal.

Is there actually an article link for what you heard. I did a real quick yahoo search and didn't find anything out.

Yeah, if there is a link, I want to read it for myself. They *might* if the courts are liberal enough, take away the tax examption but I dont think they can be sued unless they are a church that openly embraces gays...

Yes and despite the recent decision, I don't think the courts are liberal enough.

And I still don't think the gay groups are even pushing for any type sanctions against preachers that would refuse to do a gay marriage........gay groups are now worried about the next election which is supposed to give voters a chance to reinstate the ban on gay marriage. Their hope is that by the time the election rolls around people will be used to gays getting married and will be more acceptive than in year 2000. Going after pastors for refusing to do gay marriage would be like throwing gas on a fire that they want to burn out soon so everyone forgets about it.

[damo1]

well from what i observed while the world youth day was held in Australia was this

the gay groups gave the pilgrims a hard time to the point of two activests standing in front of a church dressed in condoms giving the parishoners a hard time

the two did not care as the camerra was on them and they put on a good show saying to one member who started to guide them off the church grounds you cant do this we too have the same rights as you do you cant do this

the two activests did not respect the members of this church instead they handed out condoms and said the pope is wrong and we deserve to be treated with respect

you could see that the members where getting agrivated by their stance they took

before the world youth day started new laws were introduced to the police and a group took the laws that were given to the police to the court and had the laws thrown out the reason to this group doing this was simple any person cought wearing an offensive t shirt or prottesting or harrising the young people that were to attend world youth day would be fined $5,000 australian dollars

i am also hearing this from my side of the world as the gay community is pushing for the same rights that were passed to the gays in california and the gay community is saying the same thing they want us to accept them and alow them to out live ther lives with out having the gospel slamed down there throat or told they are sinners because it says so by the old laws that were given to moses

the gay community wants the same rights a normal couple have they want to be accepted and they want normal bosses to give them the same rights we have

this will never happen the gay community will keep finding loop holes and they wil use these loop holes against us

my pastor has refused to marry gay couples sevral wanted to book out our church and he said no

other pastors are following suit and are making it clear they wil not be bullied or intimidated when it comes to gay couples and the rights they have including the decleration where it states a person has the right and the freedom to choose how they live out their lives and how they worship and what religon they take on

what do you do do you turn a blind eye and accept them for who they are to where we throw the old testament laws that were passed on to moses by god and say wel that was then this is know or do we stand up for this gospel and not let them have their way

you know as well as i know they are laughing at us they know the bible just as wel as i do the gays i know and have worked with are very educated these gay couples have read the bible and have bibles in their homes i was told by one close friend who use to be a male prostitute and had a gay partner he would go threw the old testament to find loop holes

god bless from damo

[ParanoidAndroid]

While gay marriage is slowly becoming accepted, so far, no pastor or preacher is being forced to perform the ceremony against their will. I would worry for any pastor's salvation if they would sanction and perform such a union though. That is why there is the possibility of Civil services. A Civil ceremony is non-religious and not performed (or necessarily performed) by religious people. Even then, a Civil Registrar has the Right to deny marriage to a gay couple if it goes against their moral beliefs (eg, see this recent COURT RULING).. Like a chemist who refuses to sell anti-abortion drugs, Registrars have the legal Right to say "no", but they must provide them with an alternative (usually Registrars work for a company so it's a simple matter of getting one of the other Registrars to perform the ceremony instead).

One question though that bothers me, (and I suppose this is a question for some of the pastors on this board to ponder/answer), would you conduct a marriage in which one or the other partner had previously been divorced? this is not allowed by Jesus' commands, strictly forbidden by God, but we see it performed in churches all the time, and few pastors take issue with it. But as soon as the issue of homosexuality arises, there's a big moral outrage.

Is this double standards?????

[ParanoidAndroid]

the gay community wants the same rights a normal couple have they want to be accepted and they want normal bosses to give them the same rights we have

this will never happen the gay community will keep finding loop holes and they wil use these loop holes against us

my pastor has refused to marry gay couples sevral wanted to book out our church and he said no

other pastors are following suit and are making it clear they wil not be bullied or intimidated when it comes to gay couples and the rights they have including the decleration where it states a person has the right and the freedom to choose how they live out their lives and how they worship and what religon they take on

what do you do do you turn a blind eye and accept them for who they are to where we throw the old testament laws that were passed on to moses by god and say wel that was then this is know or do we stand up for this gospel and not let them have their way

I agree that homosexuality is not biblically sanctioned, but my moral dilemma (yes, another one beyond the one in my previous post) is whether we as Chrisitans should impose our own morals on those who don't believe as we do. To what extent should we allow our biblical values to affect a secular world (and yes, whatever anyone tries to say, this is a secular world we live in). It is not God's world, but Satan's. We are aliens in a strange land, according to the Bible. Should we deny homosexuals the Right to marry? In my opinion, no. It is a secular world, and if they don't want to follow God's rules, that is their choice, and they should be given the choice to marry.

However, as mentioned already, I would also make certain that a pastor/preacher/registrar has the Right to deny performing the ceremony based on their own religious morality.

That is the only way to have true Religious Freedom, in my opinion!

Thoughts and comments?