Women in ministry

[Guest Honolulu-Dad]

Excellent post Willow.

Historically, at the time Paul wrote to the church in Cornith (sp), the women and men sat on opposite sides of the sanctuary. As Willow pointed out, some of the women were, apparently, causing distractions to the service by calling out to their husbands when they did not understand something the Priest had said.

Paul, in his letter to the church, simply addresses the issue and instructs the women to wait until they get home and then they can ask their husbands to explain those things.

As far as women being in the ministry in general; the first persons ordained by Jesus Himself to go and preach the "Good News" were women. (Matthew 28:10)

Blessings all,

H-Dad

Matthew 28:9-10

The Women Worship the Risen Lord

And as they went to tell His disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, "Rejoice!" So they came and held Him by the feet and worshiped Him. Then Jesus said to them, "Do not be afraid. Go and tell My brethren to go to Galilee, and there they will see Me.

That is not the commission as you stated. Jesus did not ordain them to preach.

Matthew 28:16-20

The Great Commission

Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had appointed for them. When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some doubted.

And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.

In His Love,

OneLight

I guess that depends on ones' definitions of the words preach and ordained.

Let's don't get all hung-up on symantics (sp). I did not mean Jesus told them to go start churches and be Pastors. Simply, that He told them to go "tell" the brethren that He was alive and where to meet Him. That is "preaching" the Good News that Jesus is alive.

The fact that Jesus Himself told them to go, means He ordained them for that purpose. In other words, He gave them the authority to deliver His message. Isn't that what a preacher does?

I meant nothing more than that.

H-Dad

[methinkshe]

All pastors are servants, but not all servants are pastors. Deacons were set aside for service and are separate from pastors which the NT refers to in the KJV as bishops. Technically all qualifiy as diakonos, or servants in one respect, but the official role of deacon is separate from the role of Pastor and always has been from NT times.

Would you care to comment on the following? I appreciate your knowledge of the original lnguages of Scripture. I am still considering the issues explored in the article.

The Great Ecclesiastical Conspiracy

Many thanks

Ruth

[Ovedya]

I accept the Word of God as totally God-breathed, yet I know that there are a few translator arrors. They do not affect the meanings of any of God's thoughts to us. Translators also revealed to us a bias toward femininity, as they translated the same word that is used for a man to mean something else when it was perceived that ti was descriptive of a woman. I recognize that and I accept it. Get over it.

Yes, Phoebe was a pastoral figure in the church at Cenchrae.

Wait a minute....I'm confused. In the same sentence you wrote ?I accept the Word of God as totally God-breathed, yet I know there are a few translator errors. So...If the Word of God is totally God-breathed, then how can it possibly have any translator errors?

If those "errors" don't affect God's thoughts to us, then how can you argue against them? That makes no sense whatsoever. If God's thought is not to permit a woman to: a) teach a man, and, b) have authority over a man, then what part of that tranlsation do you have a problem with? The whole thing, or just the part that the translators got wrong?

You wrote, "Translators also revealed to us a bias toward femininity, as they translated the same word that is used for a man to mean something else when it was perceived that ti was descriptive of a woman." Explain this to me, it makes no sense whatsoever. Are you saying that the translators intended to use a certain word for a woman and yet used their bias to purposefully change it to a male gendered word? Prove it, if that's the case. Prove that such a thing happened.

Your confusion is not my problem. God inspired every word. Translators made a few errors. This one, in my opinion, is the worst of them all, but we need to know God and the rest of His Word to realize that He is no respecter of persons!

Yes, translators indeed translated the word diakonos, which means "minister" to say, "servant" because they encountered a female name. It is our fault for reading it as a less than ministerial or pastoral role. I have already proven it by all the scriptures I provided in my earlier post where the word remained the same in meaning concerning males...then all of a sudden, when the translator encounters Phoebe, it becomes something less.

Yes, actually it is your problem. Because rather than believe the Bible is the complete Word of God, you have decided that it is something less, beholden to your personal preferences and comfort zone issues.

Where is the Biblical precedent for a female overseer - elder -which coordinates with today's "pastors"? Where is there a single woman mentioned as being in charge of a local church in the Bible? There isn't one. Phoebe was not an apostle, she was not an overseer or elder, she was a "deaconess." I've already shown you how the word in Greek is in the feminine form when it refers to Phoebe. The translators didn't suddenly decide to change the Greek because of their misogynistic tendencies. There simply is no evidence that they changed the word at all, in any way.

[HAZARD]

this has been a hot topic all over the world and i have been involved in debates there are men who agree with what paul had to say but there are guys like my self who disagree with what paul had to say

my partner is a female pastor in the philippines and she has seven pastors working under her and not one person has said its wrong for a 32 yr old to be leading and teaching and equiping

what i am looking at when paul said what he said was it from god or was it from paul

also you need to remember back in those days the disciples were persecuted and paul was concerned he wanted the men to step up and he wanted the men to lead the reason he wanted the men to lead the men can handle what is thrown at them

he did not want any harm comming towards the women

paul would drag the leaders into the court yard and he would whip them and beat them the men in the main church and in our new church we planted in la castellana support my partner they do what is asked of them with out saying it is wrong for a women to lead

also in my partners country it is the women that are more strong in the faith its the women that come to the prayer meetings the women support the pastor and the leadership teams the women also get involved in the crusades

what i have observed since i have been a christian has blown me away the churches that i visited i would only see the women with their kids comming to the sunday morning service where the husbands would stay at home and distance them selves

this will alway be a hot topic no matter how you look at what paul had to say in 1 corinthians 14 v 34 - 36 and in 1 timothy chapter 3

stay strong dont let no one look down on you

Jesus never came down hard on the women that supported him as it was the women who supported jesus not the men

i have had guys telling me i should tell my partner to step down and take on the role my self

i have also had guys try to rebuke me because i support my partner

i cant step into the role as head pastor

my partner has worked hard to get to wher she is and i told her you wil never have me telling you to step down but i will support you shield you the best way i can and i will always pray over you and stand in the gap for you

if men support what paul had to say hear is my question what are you doing do you come to the prayer meetings do you get involved do you lead by example no use whinning saying but paul said women must be silent

we challange our men in our churches in Australia as today men have gotten slack

sister keep the faith dont let no male tell you its a mans role

i am proud of my partner and i tell her every day i am proud off her

if it where not for our women our churches today would fall apart and many churches would be empty

men dont abuse your wifes dont be so pig headed if you feel that what paul had to say in 1 corninthians 14 v 34 - 36 was off god prove it was it god inspired or was it paul inspired ?

and please dont try to correct me or rebuke me because i support my partner and see this in a diffrent light

God bless from damo

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi all.

Hi 'damo 1'

In the gospel there were several woman messengers who proclaimed the good news (Matt. 28:1-10; Luke 24:9-11; John 4:28-30; 20:16-18). In Acts we have a prediction that God will pour out of His Spirit in the last days "UPON ALL FLESH; and your sons and DAUGHTERS shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams; and upon my servants and upon my HANDMAIDENS I will pour out of my Spirit and they will prophesy." Prophesying is explained in 1 Cor. 14:3-4 as "speaking unto MEN to edification and exhortation and comfort." Thats preaching, teaching, praying, in anyones language. and God says He will pour out His Spirit upon men and WOMEN to enable them to do this!

These following passages prove to any unbiased mind that prophesying is for the church which has men and WOMEN members (1 Cor. 12:1-13; 14:1-6, 12, 24-26, 29-33).

In Acts 21:8-9 we read Philip had four daughters that did prophecy or preach in the early church.

In Romans 16 we have Phebe, Priscilla, Mary Junia, Tryphosa, Persis, all female names, women mentioned as laborers in the gospel.

In Phil. 4:2-3 we have Euodias and Syntyche, two women who are emntioned as leaders in the local church at Philippi. They are refered to as "those WOMEN which labored with me in the Gospel."

Paul speakes of the Corinthian women prophesying and praying in church (1 Cor. 11:4; 14:1-5, 23-26).

When paul said for women to "keep silence in the church" he was not speaking of women prophesying or praying, but he referred to asking their husbands certain things at church. He said, "If they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home" and not in the church (1 Cor. 14:34-35). But that they could speak and prophecy and pray in church is clear from 1 Cor. 11:4; 14:3-4, 23-26; and Acts 2:16-21.

Women have been used in all ages by God, Read (Ex. 15:20; Judges 4:4; 2 Kings 22:14; 2 Chron. 34:22; Neh. 6:14; Isa. 8:3; Luke 1:39-56; 2:36). I believe God is soverign and He can use a woman if and when He pleases.

[Guest Honolulu-Dad]

this has been a hot topic all over the world and i have been involved in debates there are men who agree with what paul had to say but there are guys like my self who disagree with what paul had to say

my partner is a female pastor in the philippines and she has seven pastors working under her and not one person has said its wrong for a 32 yr old to be leading and teaching and equiping

what i am looking at when paul said what he said was it from god or was it from paul

also you need to remember back in those days the disciples were persecuted and paul was concerned he wanted the men to step up and he wanted the men to lead the reason he wanted the men to lead the men can handle what is thrown at them

he did not want any harm comming towards the women

paul would drag the leaders into the court yard and he would whip them and beat them the men in the main church and in our new church we planted in la castellana support my partner they do what is asked of them with out saying it is wrong for a women to lead

also in my partners country it is the women that are more strong in the faith its the women that come to the prayer meetings the women support the pastor and the leadership teams the women also get involved in the crusades

what i have observed since i have been a christian has blown me away the churches that i visited i would only see the women with their kids comming to the sunday morning service where the husbands would stay at home and distance them selves

this will alway be a hot topic no matter how you look at what paul had to say in 1 corinthians 14 v 34 - 36 and in 1 timothy chapter 3

stay strong dont let no one look down on you

Jesus never came down hard on the women that supported him as it was the women who supported jesus not the men

i have had guys telling me i should tell my partner to step down and take on the role my self

i have also had guys try to rebuke me because i support my partner

i cant step into the role as head pastor

my partner has worked hard to get to wher she is and i told her you wil never have me telling you to step down but i will support you shield you the best way i can and i will always pray over you and stand in the gap for you

if men support what paul had to say hear is my question what are you doing do you come to the prayer meetings do you get involved do you lead by example no use whinning saying but paul said women must be silent

we challange our men in our churches in Australia as today men have gotten slack

sister keep the faith dont let no male tell you its a mans role

i am proud of my partner and i tell her every day i am proud off her

if it where not for our women our churches today would fall apart and many churches would be empty

men dont abuse your wifes dont be so pig headed if you feel that what paul had to say in 1 corninthians 14 v 34 - 36 was off god prove it was it god inspired or was it paul inspired ?

and please dont try to correct me or rebuke me because i support my partner and see this in a diffrent light

God bless from damo

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi all.

Hi 'damo 1'

In the gospel there were several woman messengers who proclaimed the good news (Matt. 28:1-10; Luke 24:9-11; John 4:28-30; 20:16-18). In Acts we have a prediction that God will pour out of His Spirit in the last days "UPON ALL FLESH; and your sons and DAUGHTERS shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams; and upon my servants and upon my HANDMAIDENS I will pour out of my Spirit and they will prophesy." Prophesying is explained in 1 Cor. 14:3-4 as "speaking unto MEN to edification and exhortation and comfort." Thats preaching, teaching, praying, in anyones language. and God says He will pour out His Spirit upon men and WOMEN to enable them to do this!

These following passages prove to any unbiased mind that prophesying is for the church which has men and WOMEN members (1 Cor. 12:1-13; 14:1-6, 12, 24-26, 29-33).

In Acts 21:8-9 we read Philip had four daughters that did prophecy or preach in the early church.

In Romans 16 we have Phebe, Priscilla, Mary Junia, Tryphosa, Persis, all female names, women mentioned as laborers in the gospel.

In Phil. 4:2-3 we have Euodias and Syntyche, two women who are emntioned as leaders in the local church at Philippi. They are refered to as "those WOMEN which labored with me in the Gospel."

Paul speakes of the Corinthian women prophesying and praying in church (1 Cor. 11:4; 14:1-5, 23-26).

When paul said for women to "keep silence in the church" he was not speaking of women prophesying or praying, but he referred to asking their husbands certain things at church. He said, "If they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home" and not in the church (1 Cor. 14:34-35). But that they could speak and prophecy and pray in church is clear from 1 Cor. 11:4; 14:3-4, 23-26; and Acts 2:16-21.

Women have been used in all ages by God, Read (Ex. 15:20; Judges 4:4; 2 Kings 22:14; 2 Chron. 34:22; Neh. 6:14; Isa. 8:3; Luke 1:39-56; 2:36). I believe God is soverign and He can use a woman if and when He pleases.

Amen Hazard

[Floatingaxe]

Yes, actually it is your problem. Because rather than believe the Bible is the complete Word of God, you have decided that it is something less, beholden to your personal preferences and comfort zone issues.

Where is the Biblical precedent for a female overseer - elder -which coordinates with today's "pastors"? Where is there a single woman mentioned as being in charge of a local church in the Bible? There isn't one. Phoebe was not an apostle, she was not an overseer or elder, she was a "deaconess." I've already shown you how the word in Greek is in the feminine form when it refers to Phoebe. The translators didn't suddenly decide to change the Greek because of their misogynistic tendencies. There simply is no evidence that they changed the word at all, in any way.

No. I believe the Word of God to be inerrant, and complete.

The translators changed her role to "servant" instead of 'minister" when they encountered a female name. It's understandable. However, it is not acceptable in that light for people today to mistranslate that she was not a minister of the church as any other man was, and to perpetuate a misogynistic mindset where God does not.

[Floatingaxe]

Satan has attacked the church in 5 areas: The workforce (he halved it), men and their ministry (affected by Pride), women (abuse, denigration, denial and robbed of identity), God's character (bias against women shows the world that God is unjust), God's image (Satan uses the rejection issue and emotional woundings to destroy the revelation of the image of God through the unity of man and woman in all areas). Satan hates us, folks! He loves this discord and this misunderstanding of God's intent for all of us to be equally serving Him, shoulder to shoulder as He created us in the first place! In Christ, we can show the world exactly how it is supposed to be...not buying into the culture that has hated women for centuries. The Greeks hated women, and the Romans also. That is how our culture is influenced.

[OneLight]

Lets take another look at His word ...

Romans 16:2

That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.

According to your interpretation, floatingaxe, she was a minister to Paul also. Tell me, why would Paul need a minister to lead him, being an Apostle? God first set Apostles, then Prophets, then teachers ... she would of been below Paul in the order of how God set up His church. Yet, if she was as we have shown you, then it would all make sense.

Here is a commentary that would help explain this issue

The apostle recommends Phebe to the church at Rome, and greets several friends there.

Paul recommends Phebe to the Christians at Rome. It becomes Christians to help one another in their affairs, especially strangers; we know not what help we may need ourselves. Paul asks help for one that had been helpful to many; he that watereth shall be watered also himself. Though the care of all the churches came upon him daily, yet he could remember many persons, and send salutations to each, with particular characters of them, and express concern for them. Lest any should feel

themselves hurt, as if Paul had forgotten them, he sends his remembrances to the rest, as brethren and saints, though not named. He adds, in the close, a general salutation to them all, in the name of the churches of Christ. (Ro 16:17-20)

About this commentary:

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary on the Bible is available in the Public Domain.

[Floatingaxe]

Humble Paul sat even at Phoebe's feet, obviously!

[irishcowboy]

what is the roll of a minister?

what is the roll of a pastor?

what is the roll of a deacon?

what is the roll of a servant?

is not a minister a servant? a servant of God, serving the people?

is not a pastor, also a servant? a servant of God, serving the people?

how about that of a deacon? again, they are a servant, one that is an extension of the pastors arms, serving the people.

and the roll of a teacher is the same, a servant of God serving the people.

who really sits under who?

even Christ submitted to the authorities, unless they were out of line with the Word of God, and He is the Son of God.

even Christ was ministered to, not by just man, but by the angels.

there are things to be learned from people of all ages and all levels of Christianity...... including sitting under a three year old young lady that is bringing forth a message from the Lord, and praying over other children as well as her sunday school teachers.

when a person is learning from some one else, they are "sitting under them" even if it is only for a moment.

allow the Lord to work through whomever He chooses.

mike