Spare the Rod, Spoil the Child

[Guest shiloh357]

My dad dealt with problems when they were small. I lied ONCE to my dad when I was 8. He had a leather strap and let me tell you, leather on a bare bottom is something beyond description. You cannot fill your lungs with enough air to scream loud enough to express the pain you would be in. Dad didn't put up with anything and he didn't have to yell or threaten. The leather strap did his talking for him. As a child, I was afraid to lie to anyone in case my dad found out. It built in a good habit. I associated lying with dad's leather strap.

My dad's word was law and if you were told to do something, you had better step and fetch. My dad did not treat me as his equal, and I didn't have any "rights." Our family was not a democracy, and heaven help you if you EVER squared off at, or argued with mom for any reason. It was "yes ma'am" and "no ma'am."

That leather strap instilled a healthy fear/respect in our house. As long as you did as you were told, life was beautiful, but if you called down the thunder, you got what you deserved.

[Fez]

As long as you did as you were told, life was beautiful, but if you called down the thunder, you got what you deserved.

Exactly the same for me! And I turned out Ok, slightly mad at times but Ok! I only have wonderful memories of my childhood and my parents, who brought me up in a loving, safe environment, with the occasional "thunderstorm"

[Believer1997]

As long as you did as you were told, life was beautiful, but if you called down the thunder, you got what you deserved.

Exactly the same for me! And I turned out Ok, slightly mad at times but Ok! I only have wonderful memories of my childhood and my parents, who brought me up in a loving, safe environment, with the occasional "thunderstorm"

well... I never got a spanking or any corporal punishment because they were afraid I'd break... (leg braces and body casts...long story) Besides... from my older siblings I KNEW that my parents were capable of heaven knows what... (NOTE: As we got older and compared notes - none of us EVER got a spanking or got hit)... My parents had these "looks" ... you know the "look" ... the one that says... you may have only minutes to live.... Mamma had a smoldering look... Daddy had the one eyebrow raise and he looked over his glasses and said "Excuse me..." I dread those words to this day... I remember losing all kinds of privileges for periods of time and if you made Mamma cry... well, you didn't want to do that.

[Openly Curious]

What does it mean "Spare the Rod, spoil the child?"

Doesn't the Bible phrase it differently? Doesn't the Bible say "He who spareth the rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him correcteth him betimes" (Proverbs 13:24) and "Withhold not correction from a child: for if thou strike him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and deliver his soul from hell." (Proverbs 23:13-14),

So, I'm not challenging, just simply asking someone to explain what Scripture says. Thanks.

Hi JamiLea, I think post #55 will help in explaining some of the things you have mentioned. There is several scripture verses that mentions sparing the "rod" and each one is telling us that it is not wise to spare the rod as the rod is a symbol of correction. Spanking is to use a flat object on the bottom of your child. Your hand can also be used in spanking your child as your hand is also a flat object.

[Axxman]

Here's one of them: http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/ind..._ok_calvin.html

Ty Ovedya for the links...She said a couple of interesting things...

""This is a red light for people who want to legally limit how parents choose to discipline their children," she said. "I don't promote spanking, but there's not the evidence to outlaw it."

"Spanking is a dangerous tool..."

"This in no way should be thought of as a green light for spanking,"

All Marjorie Gunnoe's study was meant to prove was that spanking can get good results and therefore shouldn't become a legal issue as long as parents adhere to the man-made rules applied to spanking. Even after conducting the study herself Mrs Gunnoe does not support spanking and doesn't wish her study to be considered a green light for hitting kids. The study shows that kids who are spanked from age 2-6 can grow up happy...kids who were spanked after the age of 6 (also known as the group of kids who will most likely remember the beatings) showed a marked increase in behavioral problems and unhappiness.

[Axxman]

My dad dealt with problems when they were small. I lied ONCE to my dad when I was 8. He had a leather strap and let me tell you, leather on a bare bottom is something beyond description. You cannot fill your lungs with enough air to scream loud enough to express the pain you would be in. Dad didn't put up with anything and he didn't have to yell or threaten. The leather strap did his talking for him. As a child, I was afraid to lie to anyone in case my dad found out. It built in a good habit. I associated lying with dad's leather strap.

My dad's word was law and if you were told to do something, you had better step and fetch. My dad did not treat me as his equal, and I didn't have any "rights." Our family was not a democracy, and heaven help you if you EVER squared off at, or argued with mom for any reason. It was "yes ma'am" and "no ma'am."

That leather strap instilled a healthy fear/respect in our house. As long as you did as you were told, life was beautiful, but if you called down the thunder, you got what you deserved.

I know people are inclined to think the best of their parents and justify their actions so they don't have to face the reality...but an adult should never expose a childs privates and then hit them in that area. Should never, ever, happen!

Its also a shame that your father let an inanimate object speak for him. I'm not trying to diss your dad, but sometimes talking things out works. I know you figure you would have been a child of satan without that dear old leather strap...but I guess we'll never know.

Your description..."You cannot fill your lungs with enough air to scream loud enough to express the pain..." is so horrifyingly sad. It pains me to think that there are adults who think that is okay...and that there are children who still suffer it.

[Axxman]

There is several scripture verses that mentions sparing the "rod" and each one is telling us that it is not wise to spare the rod as the rod is a symbol of correction.

Bingo...bingo....bingo!!!

The rod is "a symbol!!!".. Its not a literal rod...and you don't literally beat your kids with it.

[Guest shiloh357]

I know people are inclined to think the best of their parents and justify their actions so they don't have to face the reality...but an adult should never expose a childs privates and then hit them in that area. Should never, ever, happen!

Its also a shame that your father let an inanimate object speak for him. I'm not trying to diss your dad, but sometimes talking things out works. I know you figure you would have been a child of satan without that dear old leather strap...but I guess we'll never know.

Your description..."You cannot fill your lungs with enough air to scream loud enough to express the pain..." is so horrifyingly sad. It pains me to think that there are adults who think that is okay...and that there are children who still suffer it.

We talked things out all of the time. It is in homes that are either abusive or lack any kind of meaningful discipline that communication breaks down. What was not tolerated was deliberate disobedience, which was rare thanks to the leather strap. What my dad did was preventative and protective. He created an environment of discipline so that we could talk to him.

The leather strap made an unforgettable impression on the memory and it made me think twice before getting into mischief. I had to decide if the mischief was worth the price I would pay when I got caught (and I knew I would get caught). I never got whipped for telling the truth or making a mistake. As long as I owned up to my misdeeds and simply told the truth, there were no problems. But to lie or deliberately disobey/rebel, was met with severe consequences. For that reason, my dad did not have to use the leather strap very often. It was also for that reason, if my dad did not want me hanging out with certain kids he knew drank and caused trouble, I did not rebel against him. Because of his discipline, I knew that he was looking out for me and eventually I came to understand that he could see warning signs that I could not see. It helped me later to choose safer friends on my own.

What my dad did worked. I never cheated on a test in school. I have never had to deal with 10% of the problems most kids faced. I have never had a cigarette to my lips; I have never got drunk or got hooked on alcohol or drugs. I have never been arrested or put in prison. I have never had sex outside of marriage, and have no unwanted kids out there somewhere. My dad taught me to just do my work, mind my own business and not cause other people any trouble. My parents saved me from a lot of the problems and addictions that are commonplace for most people.

My dad was not my "buddy" or my play mate. He did not act like he and I were equals. You simply did what you were told and everyone got along just fine. The yard stayed mowed, our rooms were clean and tidy, and his rewards were as generous as his punishments were severe. My dad rewarded us all of the time so that he didn't have to use the strap. He made it easy for us to approach him with our mistakes. His discipline made it easier to tell the truth. It was always better to take the initiative and come to him first rather than letting him find out some other way. He did not punish us for having the courage to admit what we did wrong. We might not have got out of the consequences for our mistakes, but dad was right there with us to help.

My dad did not have take me or my brother to counselors or psychologists, he didnt' have to read parenting books or anything like that. He just acted like a dad and like a real man who was the head of his household and knew how to manage it.

My dad

[Axxman]

What my dad did worked. I never cheated on a test in school. I have never had to deal with 10% of the problems most kids faced. I have never had a cigarette to my lips; I have never got drunk or got hooked on alcohol or drugs. I have never been arrested or put in prison. I have never had sex outside of marriage, and have no unwanted kids out there somewhere. My dad taught me to just do my work, mind my own business and not cause other people any trouble. My parents saved me from a lot of the problems and addictions that are commonplace for most people.

Physical discipline does work...never said it can't work. Kidnappers gain compliance with children using many of the same terror techniques. You scare a kid bad enough you can get him to do anything you want. Do the ends always justify the means?

So you never smoked, got drunk, or cheated. Never had premarital sex and was a quiet little perfect mouse. You were perfect...or were you? Guess what...my dad was abusive and I never did those things either. And when I say abusive...i don't mean spanking. I was physically abused and so was my mom. Guess what? I was scared to death to do something wrong...and look how good I turned out. Now, I won't say that every parent who applies my dads methods will get the same results...but the end justifies the means....I guess.

Of course...for the sake of honesty...it should be noted that even though we never did those "eye-catching" sins that always make the headlines. We are not perfect...we have our sins...in spite of our parents best efforts. No amount of beatings can make a person perfect....

My dad was not my "buddy" or my play mate. He did not act like he and I were equals. You simply did what you were told and everyone got along just fine. The yard stayed mowed, our rooms were clean and tidy, and his rewards were as generous as his punishments were severe. My dad rewarded us all of the time so that he didn't have to use the strap. He made it easy for us to approach him with our mistakes. His discipline made it easier to tell the truth. It was always better to take the initiative and come to him first rather than letting him find out some other way. He did not punish us for having the courage to admit what we did wrong. We might not have got out of the consequences for our mistakes, but dad was right there with us to help.

My dad did not have take me or my brother to counselors or psychologists, he didnt' have to read parenting books or anything like that. He just acted like a dad and like a real man who was the head of his household and knew how to manage it.

My dad

[Guest shiloh357]

Physical discipline does work...never said it can't work. Kidnappers gain compliance with children using many of the same terror techniques. You scare a kid bad enough you can get him to do anything you want. Do the ends always justify the means?

My Dad didn't scare us into obedience. My dad did not use terror techniques and did not try to scare us into doing what he wanted. He instilled a healthy respect in us to prevent us from developing habits of lying and determined rebellion. It was to protect us from doing wrong and the consequences that follow. My dad was not an abusive control freak. My Dad told me as a child, "if you mess up, don't run from me; run to me, because no one loves you more than me."

He used rewards and honesty and instilled a value system. The corporal punishment was reserved for lying and and for determined, purposeful disobedience. As I got older, I obeyed my Dad because I understood the reason for the punishments we received. So yeah, from where I stand the end justified the means. What my Dad did worked.

So you never smoked, got drunk, or cheated. Never had premarital sex and was a quiet little perfect mouse. You were perfect...or were you?

I was not perfect, but my dad instilled values. I was not ever afraid of my Dad.

Guess what...my dad was abusive and I never did those things either. And when I say abusive...i don't mean spanking. I was physically abused and so was my mom. Guess what? I was scared to death to do something wrong...and look how good I turned out. Now, I won't say that every parent who applies my dads methods will get the same results...but the end justifies the means....I guess.

That is where I am different. I was never afraid of my dad. I didn't try to live right out of fear of what He might do. I lived right because my dad instilled values in me, and taught me the importance of those values. I was taught by my dad to do what was right because it was right, not because he was waiting to strike me if I messed up.

Of course...for the sake of honesty...it should be noted that even though we never did those "eye-catching" sins that always make the headlines. We are not perfect...we have our sins...in spite of our parents best efforts. No amount of beatings can make a person perfect....

I never claimed to be perfect, but my Dad made it easy to admit our mistakes and come to him when we did screw up things. He appreciated that kind of integrity and we were never beaten with the intent of making us perfect. We were never expected to be perfect and we were never beaten. All that was asked of us was that do our best.

I know you feel obligated to defend your dad...and I can respect that. Lots of kids in our boat do the same thing because we want to think the best of our parents. To this day I cringe when I think about some of the abuse I endured and yet I love my dad and forgive him and attempt to understand him...sometimes I still justify his actions. After all, they worked.

But unlike you I was not abused. My dad did not beat me or my brother. Discipline is painful, but when applied properly, it works. My Dad only used that strap twice. Once on me and once on my brother. Once is all it took. You and I were not raised at all alike. You needn't think you can project your experience on to me.

As an adult, I came to discover that some of my peers in the church, people I respected...where never spanked. Then a shocker...my own mom...was never spanked. I began to discover that people who weren't beaten as kids could grow up to love God, become pastors and teachers, youth leaders, or otherwise well-adjusted decent human beings...it totally flies in the face of everything I'd ever been taught. Upon further review...I realized it was totally possible to raise a child without beating them, by loving and respecting them.

Everybody is different. None of us come from a cookie cutter. I have friends who were never spanked and turned out fine. Spanking can be effective and not be abusive nor is it beating.

If a child can be raised without physical discipline...and we both know that is entirely possible...isn't it worth the attempt? Especially since we know that hitting them isn't infallible...

That is up to you.