Biblical tongues

[Leonard]

There is a great pericope in Isaiah where it asks who the Lord will reveal His word to, and of course it answers those who are 'weaned from the milk' and ready for meat. Keep reading..... It says "My word shall be to them LINE UPON LINE, LINE UPON LINE; PRECEPT UPON PRECEPT, PRECEPT UPON PRECEPT; HERE A LITTLE AND THERE A LITTLE, for with STAMMERING LIPS and an UNKNOWN tongue will I speak."

The point is that although they cannot understand the language, it is nonetheless God speaking to His people. To further drive the point home, where KJV translates, "Line upon line....precept upon precept....here a little and there a little....." the Hebrew text reads "Sav l'sav, sav l'sav; kav l'kav, kav l'kav;" a phrase having NO MEANING in Hebrew. It is like the 'gibberish' you have the presumption to ridicule........

[Floatingaxe]

The thing is that a "tongue" is a language, as these wittings indicate.

Yes, tongues are a language. But it does not have to be an earthly language. It can be an angelic language.

I would not have to understand what was being said to be amazed. As the writings I linked to also indicated it's fairly easy to tell a language from random gibberish and stuttering.

Yes. The Holy Spirit will show us what the truth is. I have heard "tongues" that have left my spirit uneasy. To me, this is the Spirit telling me that they were not from Him.

I suppose the thing that gets me is how offensive it is that someone would take me to be such a fool as to believe their ramblings were inspired or God given. As it has been said, if this person speaking in tongues were to do so it would be for the sake of the people around him that he would even do so. What glory would it be to God that this man/woman would speak in an unknown language in the presence of others and NOT allow them to understand what is being said? As I always understood it a person speaking tongues could be announcer at the Olympics and everyone listening would understand them. Such is the power of God. I never imagined gifts being more subtle than that.

The message in tongues that is meant for the church needs interpretation. If the one who is to interpret decides not to do so, then the one speaking in tongues is to cease. This is not the fault of the one speaking, but the one with the interpretation. Yet, if the one speaking in tongues is false, then there will never be an interpretation and is not of God. Allow His Spirit to show you if it is of Him or not.

Excellent.

When I pray in tongues to God, I don't need an interpreter because it is prayer and God knows what my heart is saying. It is not the same gift at all that is used to exhort the people of God in assembly.

[Guest celebratejesus]

I don't pray in tongues or speak them. It is not one of my gifts. I don't even discuss my gifts from the Lord unless it's with a very close, christian friend. He has given me everything, His Life for mine. I long for nothing else on this Earth, only to be with Him. Like Paul says:

1 Cor. 13:27-31

27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. 28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the [fn4] best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.

Then he goes on to talk about The Greatest Gift. That is the one we need to desire with all our hearts.

I wish with all my heart I could pray in tongues.

Every believer has the ability to allow the Holy Spirit to pray for them when we know not what to pray for.

Romans 8:26

Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

This is different then the Gift of Tongues. This is a personal manifestation of the Holy Spirit in intercession for us, not the body. He may be praying for others on our behalf, or He may be praying for us. There will be no interpretation in these cases, only faith in Him that He will act on our behalf. You only have to allow the Holy Spirit to do so for you, and He will.

[Ovedya]

The artical states that tongues have to be of another worldly language.

Now let's review the true gift of tongues that we may lay it alongside what we are seeing today:

1. First, the true gift of tongues is a normal language, spoken somewhere on earth, but not learned by the linguistic processes by which we ordinarily learn languages; yet it is clearly understandable by anyone who would happen to speak that language.

Here is what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 13:1

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.

If Paul speaks of tongues of angels, then your link is not in accordance with scripture. Correct me if I am incorrect, but there is nowhere on earth that speaks in an angelic language.

I think that it is interesting that an entire doctrinal position is placed upon the English translation of "ean" as being "though" rather than what it should be, "if." Both common word usage in the Scripture and context overwhelmingly point to "if" not "though." At the very least it would be the variant "in case."

So folks that believe that tongue speaking can, is, an "otherworldly language" (the tongues of angels) point to this verse as evidence that Paul in fact could or did speak in the tongues of angels. However, neither the word nor the context support this position. Paul is not saying "I can speak in the tongues of angels." That's not the point of the verse. The point of the verse is that love is required to speak in any tongue, whether or not it's the tongues of angels or the tongues of men.

If you examine the verses that deal with tongue speaking more closely you will find that tongue speaking is an outward sign to the unbelievers and an inward (that is, in the church) gift for the building up of the Body of Christ. God does not author confusion. I have personally witnessed lawless events in which charismatic Christians justify vain babbling - sounding brass - by claiming they are praying in an "otherworldy tongue." There simply is no Scriptural support for such a practice or belief.

[nebula]

WEll spoken, Abigail!

When the apostles were first filled with the Holy Spirit in the Book of Acts, they began to speak in tongues. There was a crowd of people from many nations gathered nearby and they were amazed because they could understand what the apostles were saying as they were speaking their language. However, what did those who did not understand them? They mocked them and proclaimed that the apostles were drunk.

We need to be careful about placing judgment on someone because we do not understand what they are doing or why they are doing it.

Acts 2:4-13

And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language. And they were amazed and astonished, saying, "Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians—we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God." And all were amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, "What does this mean?" 13But others mocking said, "They are filled with new wine."

Now what did Paul say about speaking in tongues in church?

1 Corinthians 14:5

Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up.

Speaking in tongues audibly in church, followed by interpretation, so that everybody understands, has the purpose of building up the church.

If we speak in tongues by ourselves, not among other people, God use it to edify us:

1 Corinthians 14:2

For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 14:4a

one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself,

What did Paul say about his speaking in tongues?

1 Corinthians 14:18

I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you.

Speaking in tongues is a gift from God and is not to be belittled or despised. However, like all the other gifts that God gives us, it must be used wisely.

When reading 1 Cor. 13, most often people see a devaluing of tongues. Yet Paul never devalued the gift; rather he was rebuking the church for playing games with the gift.

But if you read the chapter carefully, you can see elements of the gift that Paul draws from -

i.e.

edifying your spirit

speaking to God (a description of prayer - thus "praying in tongues")

etc.

[OneLight]

The artical states that tongues have to be of another worldly language.

Now let's review the true gift of tongues that we may lay it alongside what we are seeing today:

1. First, the true gift of tongues is a normal language, spoken somewhere on earth, but not learned by the linguistic processes by which we ordinarily learn languages; yet it is clearly understandable by anyone who would happen to speak that language.

Here is what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 13:1

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.

If Paul speaks of tongues of angels, then your link is not in accordance with scripture. Correct me if I am incorrect, but there is nowhere on earth that speaks in an angelic language.

I think that it is interesting that an entire doctrinal position is placed upon the English translation of "ean" as being "though" rather than what it should be, "if." Both common word usage in the Scripture and context overwhelmingly point to "if" not "though." At the very least it would be the variant "in case."

So folks that believe that tongue speaking can, is, an "otherworldly language" (the tongues of angels) point to this verse as evidence that Paul in fact could or did speak in the tongues of angels. However, neither the word nor the context support this position. Paul is not saying "I can speak in the tongues of angels." That's not the point of the verse. The point of the verse is that love is required to speak in any tongue, whether or not it's the tongues of angels or the tongues of men.

If you examine the verses that deal with tongue speaking more closely you will find that tongue speaking is an outward sign to the unbelievers and an inward (that is, in the church) gift for the building up of the Body of Christ. God does not author confusion. I have personally witnessed lawless events in which charismatic Christians justify vain babbling - sounding brass - by claiming they are praying in an "otherworldy tongue." There simply is no Scriptural support for such a practice or belief.

Yes, it can be abused. In another thread about tongues that is active, I have posted that I have witnessed this personally. Yet, tongues are what the word tells us they are. As for the scripture I posted, I never said that tongues was the meaning behind the verse, but that Paul spoke the words and God allowed it to be here for us to read. It makes no difference whether the word used is "though" or "if" or even "in case", it still points to the same thing. Paul did speak in tongues of men and angels, otherwise, Paul would never of said in 1 Corinthians 14:2 "For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries." and in verse 18 "I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all".

As for studying scripture about the gifts, I have done that for many years now. In my studies, I have found three different uses with tongues. First, there are tongues of other worldly languages, as in Acts 2, for the unbelievers. Then there are tongues for the church, as in 1 Corinthians 12, which is meant to edify the body. Lastly, there is the language that is used when the Holy Spirit prays for us when we do not know what to pray for, as we read in Romans 8:26, which is to edify the believer, between God and the one praying. The first two are meant to be spoken loudly for all to hear. The last is to be privately spoken, which is why it is said to be like moaning. Reference to this is 215 in the concordance, which describes it as being like groaning which are not capable of being adequately expressed in words.

God Bless,

OneLight

[Guest Aussielady]

This has always been a touchy subject for me. When I was young I accompanied my stepbrother to church. The man at the podium began speaking gibberish. I asked my brother what he was doing and he said the man was speaking "tongues". I could not comprehend why someone who is speaking "in the spirit" would not be understandable. At the time I was not saved nor was I familiar with scripture. Even so I fully expected that someone who were "channeling" (for lack of a better word) the Holy Spirit or overcome by the spirit would be easier, not harder, to understand for the sake of edification.

Now, being more familiar with scripture and having been baptized in the spirit I am still asking the same question. When the people begin uttering gibberish from the pulpit I cannot understand what they expect to achieve. I can only surmise that they wish to convince the congregation that they posses some special or elevated status in the eyes of God. Such actions seem to me to show a lack of humility and are comparable to dancing with snakes.

This writing at PBC is by far the most detailed explanation of the gift of (many) tongues and its purpose. Even before I was saved I seemed to understand that such a gift would be for the sakes of the unbelievers and that the unbelievers would, and should, be able to understand what was being said.

Knowing this I can't help but be even more disgusted than I have in the past at what lengths some people in the church are willing to stoop to in order to glorify themselves. PBC even explains the false gift of tongues and the effect it is having.

Please read over both articles/writings and share what you think.

[b]Every believer can be baptised in the Holy Spirit. They had to wait in the upper room until the Holy Spirit came before their respective ministries began Jesus said it was better that He left and sent the Holy Spirit

Matthew 3:11 TNIV

Edited August 5, 2008 by Aussielady

[victory777]

I wish with all my heart I could pray in tongues.

Every believer has the ability to allow the Holy Spirit to pray for them when we know not what to pray for.

Romans 8:26

Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

This is different then the Gift of Tongues. This is a personal manifestation of the Holy Spirit in intercession for us, not the body. He may be praying for others on our behalf, or He may be praying for us. There will be no interpretation in these cases, only faith in Him that He will act on our behalf. You only have to allow the Holy Spirit to do so for you, and He will.

me to, its wonderfull to speak in tongues , more so in my privite pray time

[Guest Aussielady]

This has always been a touchy subject for me. When I was young I accompanied my stepbrother to church. The man at the podium began speaking gibberish. I asked my brother what he was doing and he said the man was speaking "tongues". I could not comprehend why someone who is speaking "in the spirit" would not be understandable. At the time I was not saved nor was I familiar with scripture. Even so I fully expected that someone who were "channeling" (for lack of a better word) the Holy Spirit or overcome by the spirit would be easier, not harder, to understand for the sake of edification.

Now, being more familiar with scripture and having been baptized in the spirit I am still asking the same question. When the people begin uttering gibberish from the pulpit I cannot understand what they expect to achieve. I can only surmise that they wish to convince the congregation that they posses some special or elevated status in the eyes of God. Such actions seem to me to show a lack of humility and are comparable to dancing with snakes.

This writing at PBC is by far the most detailed explanation of the gift of (many) tongues and its purpose. Even before I was saved I seemed to understand that such a gift would be for the sakes of the unbelievers and that the unbelievers would, and should, be able to understand what was being said.

Knowing this I can't help but be even more disgusted than I have in the past at what lengths some people in the church are willing to stoop to in order to glorify themselves. PBC even explains the false gift of tongues and the effect it is having.

Please read over both articles/writings and share what you think.

[b]Every believer can be baptised in the Holy Spirit. They had to wait in the upper room until the Holy Spirit came before their respective ministries began Jesus said it was better that He left and sent the Holy Spirit

Matthew 3:11 TNIV

[nebula]

OK, let me try to explain it again.

In 1 Cor. 14, Paul is rebuking the Corinthians for playing games with their gift of tongues while encouraging them to seek other spiritual gifts, primarily the gift of prophecy.

Now 1 Cor. 14 is not a Tongues 101 lesson; it is rather a follow-up lesson on the things they already knew.

However, there are elemental principles on the gift of tongues that Paul draws from while explaining these things to them.

~~~~

2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God - Speaking to God is aka "prayer". Thus, our gift of tongues is used for our speaking to God, or praying. Thus we have the more modern expressed term "praying in tongues" or calling tongues one's "prayer language."

4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself - We use our gift of tongues for self-edification. Imagine a struggle or conflict or problem you are currently dealing with. Imagine instead of dwelling on it, you start praying in tongues. I know my thoughts are released from the struggle whenever I begin speaking in tongues over the issue.

14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.

15 What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding.

- The gift of tongues is your spirit praying, and Paul says he will continue to pray and sing this way, in the spirit with his gift of tongues. (Although his encouragement is for the Corinthians to use their understanding as well, it is clear here that Paul is not dissing the use of tongues for his own spiritual benefit.)

18 I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all; 19 yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.

- So, again, the problem is not the gift of tongues, just that the people were playing games with it. Tongues is for spiritual edification, and should be used as such, not for showing off. Tongues is to be used for prayer and personal edification, but it is not for show and tell. It's one thing for a person to be praying in front of a group of people, or praying with a group of people, praying in tongues as a means to help him through the prayer (because often in prayer, people try to listen to Holy Spirit's direction and praying in tongues helps with this). It's another thing for someone to just blab their tongues off. So, what Paul is saying here to the church is that in the corporate gathering, they should use tongues to edify one another via the gift of interpretation of tongues rather than using tongues for self-exaltation purposes or whatever it was they were doing. See the difference?

26 How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.

- Notice how Paul points to other gifts, not just tongues, in his instruction to work towards edification? It seems that the church in general had a problem in this area. Tongues was just one of the areas this lack was expressed through. But notice the last sentence as well? Again, Paul affirms that tongues are for speaking to one's self (edifying your spirit) and to God (prayer).

39 Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues. 40 Let all things be done decently and in order. - Again, Paul affirms the use of tongues. Tongues are not the problem. Order in the service was.