When Does The Tribulation Begin in the Book of Revelation

[Larry 2]

Quoting Celt - I'm trying to see it, but I still don't. If the sacrifice and oblation is taken away after 1290 days per Dan.12:11, then that means 1290 days AFTER the tribulation has begun. You're confusing me with the idea that the sacrifice is taken away 30 days prior to the start of the tribualtion. I'm seeing the 1335 days in Dan.12:12 meaning 1290 + 45 = 1335 days. These times also correspond to Antiochus Epiphanes from 171 to 165 B.C. when he fulfilled the abomination of desolation in Jerusalem as a type for the antichrist. I believe the same order will follow for the future antichrist also.

Response by larry - Dear brethren, the following text explains this subject much better than I have, and is from a study by Mary M. Bodie's "Discourses on Daniel" and this portion is titled "Time Of The End." It was furnished with a chart not compatible or formatted for posting on this forum, and so I included editing to replace points on the chart such as "(middle of the week)" If you want more information on this subject you may go online to "gracegod.com" or "Gospel Fellowship and Grace and Glory Bible College" All material provided there is free, including any booklets you want mailed to you which would have charts.

Dan. 9:27. AND he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week (7 years), and in the midst of the week, he shall cause the sacrifice and the meal offering to cease; and upon a wing of abominations he shall come desolating even unto the consumption and that which is determined shall be poured out upon the desolater

[BlindSeeker]

The site explains a lot . . . but not correctly. Like I said, it is clear you are entrenched in your beliefs . . . but that does not mean it is solid ground.

William

[Rick-Parker]

How many times are the same never ending posts going to get posted? If you haven't made your point by now, you never will.

[sojourner4Christ]

Daniel's 70-weeks prophecy is broken up into 3 time periods (49 years, 434 years, and 7 years). Jesus Christ has 70 weeks to accomplish all that is listed in the summary (Dan 9:24).

Following the "day for a year" principle:

The first period = 49 years (49 days, or 7 weeks)

The second period = 434 years (434 days, or 62 weeks)

The third period = 7 years (7 days, or 1 week)

Due to a widespread misread of this prophecy, a majority of Christians presently believe the yet-to-come tribulation period is 7 years in length. Allow me to briefly address the truth of the matter.

In the seventy weeks prophecy, each "week" is predictive of a 7-year period -- thus seventy 7-year periods is 490 years -- another recurring cyclical period in prophecy. In Daniel's prophecy described in his 9th chapter, the seventy weeks are allocated to "make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness..." (Dan 9:24), among other things. The Messiah is the one who accomplishes everything listed in the prophetic summary found in the prophecy (Dan 9:24) -- and the Antichrist is never mentioned in the entire chapter.

The text tells us that sixty-nine 7-year periods (483 years) will mark the arrival of the Messiah. Once Jesus arrives, He begins to accomplish the many facets of His mission as specified in the prophecy. Thus, at the arrival of the Messiah, the last 7 years of the seventy-week prophecy commences as the prophecy specifies that the various aspects of the prophecy, including the finishing of "the transgression" and the making "an end of sins" (Dan 9:24) work of the Messiah is to occur within the framework of the seventy weeks.

The pre-trib rapturists attempt to make Christ's entire ministry take place in a contrived 'gap' they've inserted between the 69th week and the 70th week. They then seek to say the last "week" -- i.e. the last 7 years -- is yet to begin; thus the idea that the last 7 years is the tribulation. However, the prophecy is very clear that Christ is the only one that can accomplish the list of items that must be achieved within the 70 weeks. It is Christ that makes "reconciliation for iniquity" and it is Christ that brings in "everlasting righteousness." (Dan 9:24) He accomplished all of these things during his 3.5-year ministry -- which must then be seen as a part of the seventy weeks.

Thus, the ministry of Jesus Christ occupies the first half of the last 7-year period. The text then tells us that after the time interval that precedes His arrival, the "Messiah [shall] be cut off" -- and the very next verse tells us this will occur "in the midst of the week." (Daniel 26, 27) That would be in the midst of the last "week" or halfway through the seventieth week. Once again, this would be a period of 3.5 years -- precisely the length of the ministry of Jesus Christ.

By attempting to distort the truth of this last "week" of the prophecy and seeking to assign it to the Antichrist, the pre-trib rapturists have severely diminished at least part of the impact of this striking prophecy. To put it another way, this amazing prophecy actually tells us the Messiah will be killed after His 3.5-year ministry! But there is much, much more.

The prophecy also re-affirms the covenant that is made with mankind -- the "many" specified in Daniel 9:27. Christ's one-time sacrifice "causes the sacrifice and the oblation to cease" (Dan 27) -- and there is no '7-year treaty' ever mentioned. There is no Antichrist anywhere in this prophecy, and there is certainly no 7-year tribulation!

There is, however, an unaccounted for last half of the final 7-year period. This is the 3.5-year period we would usually refer to as the tribulation.

Jesus Christ hinted at the symmetry that is found in this passage when He said "I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive." (John 5:43) As Christ's ministry was "determined" (Dan 9:24) to be 3.5 years, the Antichrist's "ministry" will also be of a similar tenure.

In Revelation, the prophet tells us of the Beast that "power was given unto him to continue forty and two months." (Rev 13:5) The pre-trib rapturists have claimed that this period begins at the halfway point of their unscriptural 7-year tribulation, at the point that the Beast supposedly betrays the theoretical 7-year "treaty" that he has supposedly made with the Jewish people.

All of this is based on the misread of Daniel's seventy weeks prophecy that I previously noted. In essence, the so-called "church" has taken critical passages dealing with the covenant that Jesus Christ made, and turned them into a treaty made by the Antichrist! In short, with this incredible deception, it is now clear that most Christian leaders cannot tell the difference between Jesus Christ and the Antichrist. This "strong delusion" is precisely what has been prophesied to occur, and recognizing the truth of this prophecy is crucial to every believer's spiritual survival.

The truth of the matter is, the 42-month term that is specified for the Antichrist is not related to any so-called "treaty" with the Jews -- indeed, no treaty is ever mentioned in Daniel's prophecies! The passage does focus on a covenant -- but since when is a "covenant" a treaty?

Daniel's prophecy in the 9th chapter deals exclusively with the Messiah. It states that "He shall confirm the covenant with many for one week" (Dan 9:27) -- the "one week" representing the last 7 years of the allotted seventy-week prophecy. Since the Antichrist is never mentioned in the passage and the entire passage is about the work that will be accomplished by JESUS CHRIST, we might ask ourselves what "covenant" would the LORD confirm? The covenant made between God and man to redeem us from our sins.

Isaiah wrote about this when the LORD said through the prophet "... I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them." (Isa 61:8) In the New Testament, the Apostle Paul writes about "the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ..." (Gal 3:17)

This is an absolutely amazing statement, for it clearly connects Daniel's 70-week prophecy with Jesus Christ -- compelling scriptural evidence that Daniel's famous prophecy has nothing to do with a supposed 7-year treaty made with the Jewish people. In fact, the passage in Galatians telling us that Christ is the one that "confirmed" the covenant is definitively linked to the "covenant" that was made with Abraham.

That covenant, referred to in the text by the Lord as "an everlasting covenant... between me and thee and thy seed after thee" (Gen 17:7), is the basis for the entire system of salvation that exists in Jesus Christ. Indeed, Galatians and Hebrews tell us that Jesus Christ is the only seed of Abraham (Gal 3:16; Heb 2:16), so the covenant between God and Abraham was confirmed in Christ.

Once we recognize that the arrival of Jesus Christ commenced the countdown of the 70th week, it is not difficult to see that the last half of that 7-year period (the 70th "week") must still be ahead of us. The Preterists (those who teach the tribulation already happened in 70 AD) teach that the 2nd half of the last 7-year period occurred in the 3.5-year siege of Jerusalem that began in 66 AD and culminated in 70 AD.

Although they are in serious error, it should be obvious that since the "tribulation" that occurred in ancient Jerusalem was indeed 3.5 years in length, a pattern was clearly emerging. The simple fact is, there is still a final 3.5-year period that must elapse before the "70 weeks" can be concluded. Within that period will be the 42 months of the Antichrist.

Revelation tells us that when the Beast arrives, "power was given unto him to continue forty and two months." (Rev 13:5) The fact that the Antichrist is plainly in view in this verse has not discouraged the pre-trib rapturists -- they simply continue to teach a 7-year tribulation and claim this 42-month period must be the 2nd half of their still future 7-year period! In other words, they are essentially saying 'our minds are made up, don't try to confuse us with any Scripture!'

The 42-month period is further obscured by the fact that the two witnesses of that same book of Revelation are said to have a ministry term of "a thousand two hundred and threescore days" (Rev 11:4). This period of 1,260 days is also 3.5 years.

Although some would seek to place the two periods, 42 months and 1,260 days, in a consecutive order -- thus totaling 7 years -- the text doesn't support such an arbitrary placement. Indeed, since the two witnesses are prophets that will ultimately be killed by "the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit" (Rev 11:7), at least a partial overlap of the two periods is required.

This fact is confirmed as the two witnesses die in Jerusalem where the Beast sets up his throne. Furthermore, because the witnesses are scheduled to provide "testimony," one might ask what it is they are to witness? It should be apparent that God has these two prophets on hand in order to bear WITNESS as to what is done during this dreadful period -- and what they will most certainly bear witness against would be the violation of God's law by the Antichrist and the False Prophet. Obviously, this would require the 1,260 days coincide, at least partially, with the 42 months of the Beast's term.

[Massorite]

I have asked this question in replies in other threads to no avail, but to know how someone interprets Revelation in its different events determines their stance on the rapture of the Church; pre, mid, or post tribulation.

To make sure you understand what I am asking, when does the seven years of tribulation start according to scripture. Please give scriptures or explanations of events with scripture to substantiate your views.

Just the facts folk and no arguments - We be brethren

Thanks to all in Jesus' name - larry2

There is nothing in the book of Revelation that gives us what to look for that clearly tells us that the seven years has begun. But there is something in the book of Daniel 9:27 "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.

The "he" in this verse speaks of the antichrist. The covenant referred to here is a peace in the middle east deal and many nations will be a part of that covenant.

The "one week" here is speaking of one year for one day of the week which adds up to seven years. In the middle of the week (3 1/2 days) or (3 1/2 years) the antichrist will break his deal.

In order for there to be a daily sacrifice and the oblation there must be a new temple in Jerusalem on the temple mount to do the sacrifices in. When the antichrist stops the daily sacrifices it will be because he will claim to be God/Jesus and there is no need for the sacrifices any longer.

Though a covenant for peace in the middle east deal will be signed. There will not be any peace for Christians because this will be the time that we will be persecuted in the name of Christ.

At the end of the first 3 1/2 years Jesus will return for His Bride and the wrath of God will come to earth to punish those who have rejected Him.

The single most important sign we should be looking for is a new temple being built on the temple mount. Then we will know the time of the return of Christ is very soon

[Celt]

The pre-trib rapturists attempt to make Christ's entire ministry take place in a contrived 'gap' they've inserted between the 69th week and the 70th week. They then seek to say the last "week" -- i.e. the last 7 years -- is yet to begin; thus the idea that the last 7 years is the tribulation. However, the prophecy is very clear that Christ is the only one that can accomplish the list of items that must be achieved within the 70 weeks. It is Christ that makes "reconciliation for iniquity" and it is Christ that brings in "everlasting righteousness." (Dan 9:24) He accomplished all of these things during his 3.5-year ministry -- which must then be seen as a part of the seventy weeks.

Firstly, I'm post-trib, and I do see that last "one week" per the Daniel prophecy still yet to come. Much of what you're saying sounds like SDA teaching on the 70 weeks of Daniel.

Dan 9:27

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(KJV)

That "one week" represents 7 years per the prophecy guideline. When did our Lord Jesus ever make a covenant set to last only "one week" (7 years)? It was 70 A.D. when the Romans came to end the sacrifice and oblation. That's 70 years AFTER Christ died on the cross, for anyone who is counting.

The only Covenant Christ made at His first coming was The New Covenant by His Blood shed upon the cross. And per the apostle Paul in Romans, just because some refused to believe could not make that New Covenant of no effect. In otherwords, it was not broken, and never ended, but will continue forever, for many others did not refuse the New Covenant. Clearly Daniel 9:27 has nothing to do with that New Covenant which Christ made. But it has everything to do with the "prince" and the "people of the prince" mentioned in the previous Daniel 9:26 verse. The subject of that prince and people of the prince must be carried over into verse 27.

Dan 9:26-27

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for Himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(KJV)

Messiah was cut off after "threescore and two weeks" (62 weeks). Add that to the previous 7 weeks that led up to Messiah's first coming, and it totals to sixty-nine weeks. For that last "one week" to be a part of Christ's first coming, even if only a 3.5 year period, the prophecy would have to say Messiah would be cut off after 62 and 1/2 weeks. The prophecy says 62 weeks.

Further, at the beginning of the seventy weeks prophecy per Dan.9:24, the finish of the whole points to events for Jerusalem and Israel that are not yet completed today:

Dan 9:24

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

(KJV)

An end of sins has not yet come for Israel and Jerusalem today, because the majority of Jews in Jerusalem today still have refused Christ Jesus as Messiah. Jerusalem's and unbelieving Israel's iniquity has yet to be reconciled. Because of events like Rev.11 are yet to occur in Jerusalem, that speaks volumes of what's in store for Jerusalem in the coming tribulation. Also, "everlasting righteousness" being brought in for Jerusalem and Israel is about a whole lot... of future prophecy when after Messiah has returned to reign upon this earth. That's also when "the most Holy", referring to the holy of holies in the Temple will be anointed or cleansed.

If one reads a bit farther in the Book of Daniel, we notice a "vile person" is to appear in Jerusalem and make a "league". That's the "covenant" of Dan.9:27 (Hebrew word 'beriyth' which can mean a pact, treaty, league, ordinance, agreement, or alliance).

Dan 11:21-23

21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.

23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.

(KJV)

It's that "vile person", along with that "small people" that pollute the sanctuary, remove the daily sacrifice and place the abomination that maketh desolate (the "abomination of desolation" that Messiah warned of in Matthew 24 and Mark 13).

Dan 11:31-39

31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.

35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

That's the same "little horn" given earlier in Daniel 7 that is to persecute God's people for a time, times, and an a half (3.5 years, or 1260 days - see Dan.7:25; 12:7; Rev.12:6; 12:14; 13:5-7).

Dan.11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.

(KJV)

In 165-170 B.C., one named Antiochus Epiphanes fulfilled that "vile person" prophecy ALMOST to a tee. The problem with that is, Messiah mentioned the "abomination of desolation" being set in the holy place during His Ministry long after Antiochus was dead. And nor did the Romans fulfill the actual placing of the abomination of desolation within the holy place (Temple) when they destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 A.D. It means to look for the prophecy of the "abomination of desolation" to be fulilled in our future, in final by the antichrist.

Jerusalem has been sieged and taken by the enemy many times since 70 A.D. But the final one will be by the antichrist, which will be the angel that ascends up out of the bottomless pit that will kill God's two witnesses there during the tribulation (Rev.11).

[Isa]

I believe the tribulation is a seven year tribulation and it starts as soon as the first seal is broken. The one who comes riding the white horse comes on the scene with a bow but no arrow so the kingdom is handed over to him willingly. He conquered this kindom without a fight. This is the start of the tribulation.

[sojourner4Christ]

There are two opposing perspectives of this abomination of desolation. When the deceived church sees the resumption of the Jewish sacrifice, they will believe they are about to be raptured. They won't believe the event they've just witnessed is the abomination, for they've been taught that won't occur until 3.5 years later with the cessation of the sacrifice.

The true believer will instead recognize the event as the abomination itself. They won't be expecting to be raptured because they know that Christ said when "ye shall see the abomination of desolation" it will then be time for them to flee into the mountains -- or quickly activate any contingency plans they've made to be preserved during the immediately ensuing destruction. The individual who inaugurates the resumption of the sacrifice is the Antichrist.

The book of Daniel even tells us that the abomination is NOT the cessation of the sacrifice. At the very end of the book, the angel tells Daniel that "...from the time [that] the daily [sacrifice] shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, [there shall be] a thousand two hundred and ninety days." (Dan. 12:11).

This verse clearly tells us that the 'setting up' of the abomination and the cessation of the sacrifice are separated by a period of 1,290 days. If you look at it closely, you'll see the verse strongly infers that the resumption of the sacrifice IS the abomination of desolation. It's because the passage approaches the chronological events in reverse that it's somewhat veiled. Again, it reads "from [or between] the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away... and the [setting up of the] abomination," there will be a period of just over 3.5 years.

The final aspect of the Beast's revealing will only occur at Christ's second coming.

The truth is, the abomination of desolation is the resumption of animal sacrifices for the sins of mankind when the precious blood of God's only begotten son has already been shed for our desperate sinful condition.

Christians are actually being taught that when they help to promote the rebuilding of the Jewish temple, it's a way of hastening the rapture! Dispensationally-oriented Christian prophecy teachers crisscross the country on speaking engagements (I've heard a few) urging believers to unilaterally support Israel on this matter. They speak frequently of the "Temple Mount Faithful," a group focused on rebuilding the temple.

Messianic Jewish Christians lavishly promote tours to Israel and the Temple Mount for this very purpose. Certain prophecy teachers (e.g. Monte Judah of Lamb and Lion Ministries) have even warned Christians that when the sacrifice is resumed, they must not speak against it, or they will be violating the will of God!

This resumption of the ancient sacrificial system IS THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION that will be blessed by the Antichrist and his False Prophet from their seat of power in Jerusalem, at which time huge numbers of Christians will be of one mind with the Antichrist. Meanwhile, the true remnant believers, already ostracised by the harlot churches they've come out of, will look on at the ghastly spectacle of the church spiritually embracing the global event even as the Antichrist then takes his place and "sits" in the now likeminded spiritual "temple of God."

Under the guise of religious tolerance and pluralism of this age, Christians are already embracing the idea of the Jews reverting to the Old Covenant practice of animal sacrifice. Through a distorted interpretation of the promises of blessing made to Abraham, Christians have been taught that the Jews are still the chosen people.

Genesis 12:3 reads: "And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed." This verse has been distorted and misinterpreted more than any other single verse in the bible! Christians simply don't realize that this promise of blessing applies to them, not to the unbelieving Jews. By dividing God's promises into "dispensations," vast numbers of well-meaning believers have bought the lie that the promises of God have been inherited by the Jews in spite of the fact that the Old Covenant people rejected and crucified their Saviour.

The New Testament says "That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith." (Gal. 3:14).

Blanket acceptance of all things Jewish is a terrible error. Ask yourself how many times you've heard about the "Judeo-Christian" culture or society that we live in? The Bible is very clear on the subject. Speaking of the Jews, the book of Romans says "As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies FOR YOUR SAKES..." The only society that I'm really interested in living in is a Christian one!

Liberal and so-called conservative Christianity is into "bridge-building" as a way to reconcile Christians with Jews. They've published religiously-correct Bibles that twist the verses. They sponsor religiously-correct institutions of learning that fail to warn all that Jesus is the ONLY way to salvation. There are even pastors that are now teaching Jews can be saved by following the Old Covenant!

This IS the great falling away, as the antichrist encroaches into the true temple of God. It's neither the way of the Apostles, nor the remnant church of Jesus Christ.

To diplomatically label the truth as being unpalatable, the religious institutions and scholars have placed believers in the position of keeping quiet about the one thing they must never keep quiet about. Jesus Christ died for the sins of the Jews, as well as everyone else.

The writer of Hebrews sums it up: "But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first [covenant] had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. ... For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more [shall not] we [escape], if we turn away from him that [speaketh] from heaven." (Heb. 8:6,7, 12:25).

Also, here

[Bold Believer]

It began in roughly the summer of AD 66 and lasted until AD 70, three and half years or 42 months on the calendar of the day. Josephus' book tell us about when and the manner of all the horrid things that went on inside and outside the walls.

Daniel 9:24-27 is the prophecy of the seventy weeks. Messiah the Prince is of course Jesus, He confirmed the covenant (the New Covenant of Jeremiah 31:33) with many (the elect of Israel). The other Prince was Prince Titus, aka General Titus. He was a son of the Roman leader who replaced Nero after he committed suicide by plunging a sword through his throat. Titus executed the judgment of God on the apostate and corrupt system that had become Judaism. This is not an indictment of all Jews, merely a statement of fact. Jesus Himself told them what would happen. He told them it was going to be a fulfillment of Daniel 9's abomination of desolation prophecy and Luke's rendition tells us that the AoD was in fact Roman armies laying siege to the city. This prophecy has been fulfilled.

[Massorite]

It began in roughly the summer of AD 66 and lasted until AD 70, three and half years or 42 months on the calendar of the day. Josephus' book tell us about when and the manner of all the horrid things that went on inside and outside the walls.

Daniel 9:24-27 is the prophecy of the seventy weeks. Messiah the Prince is of course Jesus, He confirmed the covenant (the New Covenant of Jeremiah 31:33) with many (the elect of Israel). The other Prince was Prince Titus, aka General Titus. He was a son of the Roman leader who replaced Nero after he committed suicide by plunging a sword through his throat. Titus executed the judgment of God on the apostate and corrupt system that had become Judaism. This is not an indictment of all Jews, merely a statement of fact. Jesus Himself told them what would happen. He told them it was going to be a fulfillment of Daniel 9's abomination of desolation prophecy and Luke's rendition tells us that the AoD was in fact Roman armies laying siege to the city. This prophecy has been fulfilled.

First of all the tribulation DOES NOT begin until the antichrist signs a deal with Israel IN THE FUTURE. You are preaching the Preterits doctrine and I asked you a question once before but you have not answered me so I will ask you again. The only way that the tribulation could have happened around 70 AD is if the book of Revelation was written years before 70 AD. sO i am asking you to prove that the book of Revelation was in fact written by John before 70 AD. Otherwise the tribulation is going to take place in the future just as John the Rev elater says it will. Because it is a fact that the book of Revelation was written in 96 AD while John was in prison on the island of Pot mos. These facts are already established by all of the best of the best of biblical and historical Schloss and is the most widely excepted year for the writing of the book of Revelation.

Another proof that shows that you are wrong is the fact that in Matthew 24:14 it says that "The gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in ALL of the world and that event still to this day has not been fulfilled. In Matthew 24:15 says "When you therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel". The Abomination of desolation is NOT speaking about when the armies of Rome surrounded Israel. It is speaking about when an Idol is set up in the Holy Of Holies in place of God. Which also has never happened and proves you wrong again. In Matthew 24:21 the bible say "And then (after the abomination of desolation is set up)shall be great tribulation such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time no nor ever shall be. (again) This verse yet again proves you wrong because there has been a much worse time of trouble/tribulation since the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD. The were only about 600,000 Jews in Jerusalem in 70 AD and most of them were killed by other Jews who had come to the city because the Romans were trashing the country side. The whole of the Roman campaign lasted longer then the 3 1/2 years of the sedge of Jerusalem. Something the preterits do not take into account. Jews burned up the food supply that was stored up in Jerusalem, Jews were killing each other over position of the temple mount while fighting the Romans at the same time, and Jews even killed any one who tried to escape from the city. Even in Masada those Jews all killed them selves. Except for one who was Josephus.

The war in Israel was restricted to Israel alone. But world war one came, killed millions and was a more severe time of tribulation then was in 70 AD. Then world war two came along and killed, starved to death and tortured more then 6,000,000 Jews, killed many more gentiles all over the world, and was by far the greatest tribulation period the world has ever known. Much greater then the hundreds of thousands killed in Jerusalem in 70 AD. This also tells us that the tribulation to come will be much worse then world war two was.

When the antichrist sits in the Holy of Holies of a new Jewish temple on the temple mount he will claim to be God or more specifically the Son of God. That will be when the abomination of desolation will be set in place and that will be mid way through the tribulation period. IN THE FUTURE.

There is more scripture that proves you wrong and I will gladly show them to you.