"If thou wilt enter into life"

September 3, 2008

I believe that salvation comes through Christ alone and cannot be earned.

No, you don't and your posting history proves it. If we boil your beliefs down, salvation depends on YOU and not God, ultimately.

I also believe in free will, if we are free to choose salvation then we are free to walk away from it.

That assumes, wrongly, that it was your faith that saved you. The faith that saves is faith that comes from God, not from you. Salvation does not depend on you having enough faith.

The fact is the Bible teaches that sinners go to hell. If you say the sinners prayer and then continue to sin you will go to hell, if you get baptized and continue in sin you will go to hell, if you get saved and return to sin you will go to hell.

No one goes to hell because they sin. Hell is the consequence for rejecting Christ, it is not punishment for committing sin. You don't heaven because your good, and you don't go to hell because your bad.

If we allow ourselves to be lead by our flesh whether it is because of false conversion or because we are in a backsliden condition then we are the enemies of God not his children. Don't get mad at me I didn't say it, Paul said it by the inspiration of God Himself.

Except that Paul is contrasting a person who is a Christian with the person who has not accepted Christ. Paul is not talking about backsliding in Romans 8. He is actually constrasting his former life and his new life in Christ.

September 3, 2008

The Bible lumps the unbelievers in with the rest of the sinners it is not the only sin. You say sin does not condemn people but what are these people accused of here in these many verses rejecting Christ or committing verious types of sin.

You can reject Christ with your actions regardless of your confession.

What Bible shows us in each of those cases is the fruit of a heart that rejects Christ. In each of those passages it is referring to people who lives are typified or characterized by the continuous, habitual sinful lifestyle that includes everything in those lists.

A sinful lifestyle, one that is given over to sin as described in the passages you cite is the natural outcome of what humanity looks like when left to its own devices.

No one has ever gone to hell on the basis of what they do. It is always on the basis of what they are.

OneLight · September 3, 2008

There is only one sin that will never be forgiven ...

Matthew 12:31-33 (New King James Version)

The Unpardonable Sin

Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

September 3, 2008

We too must sacrifice ourselves for Him, proving our love. Professions of love are meaningless until confirmed with sacrificial actions. Jesus gave His all for us, have gave His whole self for our salvation. We must do the same, we must give our whole selves to God. Anything less is just not sufficient or acceptable.

Yes, that is true, but God does not demand that from us upon pain of eternal separation. Rather, it is the outworking, the fruit of a heart of gratitude for the salvation we have received.

I think that you and I agree that works are necessary. What we disagree over is what they are necessary for.

OneLight · September 3, 2008

There is only one sin that will never be forgiven ...

Matthew 12:31-33 (New King James Version)

The Unpardonable Sin

Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
This is true, but what is the relevance of this to the discussion of the thread?

The simplicity of it. Only God can know the heart of a man, and He will judge accordingly. What we may see as a backslider, God may see a work in process.

Through His love, He works in everyone differently.

God Bless,

OneLight

September 3, 2008

your perversion of scripture to suit your view is offensive me, and should be to any God fearing honest believer of the true God of the Bible.
you just don't get it. how can you be so dense. told over and over and over and over not to talk like this, and here you are again? i'm not sure who you are trying to please, but i know Who you are not pleasing!

You may not be pleased but God is not displeased He appreciates those that stand for truth even if it is not popular. God hates sin, and so do I, God hates false doctrine and so do I, God hates it when people purposely distort His word to form doctrines of men and so do I. I am on God's side whether I am on your side or not.

O by the way you had no problem with shiloh's post saying I teach a false gosple, but if i reply I am the bad guy right?, typical, deception has always hated the truth.

even if you had the truth, you're not telling it with love. God is very displeased, i believe, when christians attack other christians. that's what you're doing. you attack both the belief and the person. shiloh didn't attack you. in fact, shiloh's been very patient with you while you've been attacking him. is everyone who's told you that your method of delivery is wrong, against truth? if 99 are out of step, maybe the 1-being you-should open their eyes, cuz just possibly you are the one out of line.

It is very loving to tell someone that believes in OSAS that it is not true, and to expose those that are distorting scripture for the sake of other that they might deceive.

If you think shiloh hasn't attacked me you better re-read the thread. The fact is you are on her side of the issue who has attacked who is not important to you just that you view is shown to be true is what you care about.

All I said is that you are teaching a Christless, works-based false gospel, and that is the truth. It is not an attack on you, but an accurate assessment of your message.

Larry 2 · September 3, 2008

I am probably going to get into trouble for this, but this doesn't add up. This statement was made in another thread:

The concept of the gospel being earned or maintained by works we believe to be unbiblical.

In my studies today I ran across this scripture:

And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Matthew 19:17-19

The word "if" is used to introduce a condition or choice. The way it is used by Jesus in this passage it is a condition that if we are to enter into eternal life that we are to keep the commandments.

We know that salvation is through our faith, but what is also important is what is required by man in the form of keeping the commandments that God laid out before us or we enter into that life.

Through our works of obedience to the commandments we are NOT working for our salvation as we are already saved, but we supposed to, as Christians, keep the commandments or we will not enter into eternal life.

A comment was also said that there is nothing that we can do to please God.

He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. John 14:21

Response by larry2 - Dear duet 31:12, Somewhere along here in the different things I'm reading I see many claiming their goodness, and their ability in Christ to keep themselves from doing unlawful things and I disagree totally with that. I have yet to meet the person that absolutely does nothing wrong and has no need to ever go to God for His forgiveness. It is God that keeps us.

In 1 John 5:18. "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not." Who is the "he" here in this verse? It is Jesus, the only begotten Son of God that keepeth the one born of God; the one born again doesn't keep himself. Now that one that sinneth not is that new nature we have in us of Christ; our new nature cannot sin, but our old man that Paul wrestled with in Romans 7:7-25 may and will do anything it is allowed to do. Was Paul saved here when he said this in Romans 7:19? "For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do." Sure he was and God was having him say it. Then he goes on to say in Romans 7:25 as he found the answer; "I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin." And the result is in Romans 8:1; "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus."

To go further we read in Romans 8:4: "The righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us (not by us), who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." These are those that are able to count the old man dead (our old nature that remains with us). And I must ask, Who is it that is fulfilling that righteousness in us? Again do we keep ourselves, or does God keep us?

Ephesians 2:10 tells us that "We are his workmanship," and in it is said in Philippians 2:13; "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." If we do anything right it is because of God doing it in us. Any act of righteousness we might do earns us reward according to 1 Corinthians 3:12. "Now if any man build upon this foundation (Who is the foundation?) gold, silver, precious stones, we see further in those verses he has a reward, but if his reward is wood, hay, or stubble, those works will burn and he will suffer loss though he will be saved.

If ye be self-righteous and think you are somebody come, learn to turn back to God and thank Him at all times for the gift of salvation He has given you and be not proud as one keeping themselves, and responsible for their own salvation. Remember He hath done all things well: he maketh both the deaf to hear, and the dumb to speak, and He may be able to save us in spite of ourselves.

God bless us all in the precious name of Jesus. AMEN. - larry2

OneLight · September 3, 2008

Somewhere along here in the different things I'm reading I see many claiming their goodness, and their ability in Christ to keep themselves from doing unlawful things and I disagree totally with that. I have yet to meet the person that absolutely does nothing wrong and has no need to ever go to God for His forgiveness. It is God that keeps us.

May I suggest you change your reading to here. Testimonies.

In His Love,

OneLight

Larry 2 · September 3, 2008

Somewhere along here in the different things I'm reading I see many claiming their goodness, and their ability in Christ to keep themselves from doing unlawful things and I disagree totally with that. I have yet to meet the person that absolutely does nothing wrong and has no need to ever go to God for His forgiveness. It is God that keeps us.
May I suggest you change your reading to here. Testimonies.

In His Love,
OneLight

Response by larry2 - Dear OneLight, I have no idea if you're saying I have been inappropiate in my response to this thread or what. I'm glad you brought my attention to the board "Testimonies" though. And then just how would my response fit into that category?

Thanks in Jesus' name - larry2

JB Horn · September 3, 2008

Galatians 2:16
yet we know that no one is justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ. And we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God's gift-- 9 not from works, so that no one can boast.

Titus 3:5 He saved us-- not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit. 6
This Spirit He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.

Galatians 3:1 You foolish Galatians! Who has hypnotized you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was vividly portrayed as crucified? 2 I only want to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law or by hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now going to be made complete by the flesh? 4 Did you suffer so much for nothing--if in fact it was for nothing? 5 So then, does God supply you with the Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law or by hearing with faith?

Galatians 3:23
Before this faith came, we were confined under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith was revealed. 24 The law, then, was our guardian until Christ, so that we could be justified by faith.

Are we still imprisoned? No we obey the law because of our love for Christ. I can not find a Christian that can look me in the eye and tell me that he has not sinned since he was saved. What will become of these saved sinners?

JB
Are you suggesting sin is OK because we live under grace? Paul would disagree

Romans 6:1-4
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know you not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ, were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: like as Christ from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so should we walk in newness of life.

Do you say we can be justified by faith alone without any confirming works? James would disagree.

James 2:17-18, 20, & 24
17 Even so faith,if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 yea, a man may say thou have faith and I have works, show me your faith without thy works and I will show you my faith by my works.
20 But thou will know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead.
24 You see then how by works a man is justified and not by faith alone.

Are you suggesting sin is OK because we live under grace? Paul would disagree

I'm not suggesting anything my friend it is the Scripture you have an argument with. Unless of course you're telling me that you have never sinned from the time you accepted Christ. The only other thing that would be to say the Scripture contradicts it's self.

Do you say we can be justified by faith alone without any confirming works? James would disagree.

Actually what James is saying is with faith comes love and with love comes the acts of love. In other words you shall know them by their fruits.

Now I answered your questions but you have yet to answer mine

I can not find a Christian that can look me in the eye and tell me that he has not sinned since he was saved. What will become of these saved sinners?

JB