Is a belief in the Trinity Doctrine neccessary for salvation?

[BlindSeeker]

Jesus is NEVER referred to God the Father or as being one and the same with the Father anywhere in the Bible. Jesus prayed to His Father in Heaven. Jesus gave up certain privileges and prerogatives when He came to earth. One of those prviliges was omnipresence.

John 10:30 I and my Father are one [<

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE (shiloh357 @ Sep 15 2008, 06:57 AM)

The word Trinity does not appear, since it is a word that originates from the Greek. But Deut. 6:4 states that God is "echad." That is the word for one, but it is not used as "one" as an ordinal number like "one apple" in Deut. 6:4. It is the same word used in Genesis when it says that man and wife become "one" flesh. It is also used in reference to cluster of grapes.

The concept of the Trinity is there in the Hebrew "echad."

Sure looks like echad is used as "one" as an ordinal number like "one apple"

I did not say that it does not appear in the ordinal sense in other places. I am referring solely to Deut. 6:4

That is not the way Jesus appears to explain the verse. It seems clear He is interpreting it as stating there is one (ordinal sense) supreme in authority, The Lord

Mr 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord.

There is only one God. That does not conflict with the fact that The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one in nature, character, etc.

All three are God, both individually and corporately. They are separate persons, but one God. We can't makes sense of that on this side of the grave, but it will make perfect sense when we finally meet Him face to face.

[BlindSeeker]

However, these have the aspect of more than one also, My comments in red:

Ge 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one <

[Guest shiloh357]

Jesus is NEVER referred to God the Father or as being one and the same with the Father anywhere in the Bible. Jesus prayed to His Father in Heaven. Jesus gave up certain privileges and prerogatives when He came to earth. One of those prviliges was omnipresence.

John 10:30 I and my Father are one [<

[BlindSeeker]

QUOTE (shiloh357 @ Sep 15 2008, 06:57 AM)

The word Trinity does not appear, since it is a word that originates from the Greek. But Deut. 6:4 states that God is "echad." That is the word for one, but it is not used as "one" as an ordinal number like "one apple" in Deut. 6:4. It is the same word used in Genesis when it says that man and wife become "one" flesh. It is also used in reference to cluster of grapes.

The concept of the Trinity is there in the Hebrew "echad."

Sure looks like echad is used as "one" as an ordinal number like "one apple"

I did not say that it does not appear in the ordinal sense in other places. I am referring solely to Deut. 6:4

That is not the way Jesus appears to explain the verse. It seems clear He is interpreting it as stating there is one (ordinal sense) supreme in authority, The Lord

Mr 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord.

There is only one God. That does not conflict with the fact that The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one in nature, character, etc.

All three are God, both individually and corporately. They are separate persons, but one God. We can't makes sense of that on this side of the grave, but it will make perfect sense when we finally meet Him face to face.

Thank you for replying, but your post doesn't answer why Jesus' presentation of Duet 6:4 is different than yours.

Yes there is only one God that has been revealed multiple ways.

[Ovedya]

Jesus was not a combination of God and man He was dually God and man at the same time.

Actually He is the mingling of God and man.

Actually . . . (if I can say that too) it was God tabernacling in the flesh amongst men.

Here's and old thread of mine called The Invisible Man were we see the power of flour to help explain . . .

A mingling is a compounding or mixing of elements without their loss of individual characteristics. Jesus did not sacrifice any aspect of His divine characteristics in becoming human, neither did His divinity supplant Jesus' complete humanity. Therefore it is right to use the term "mingled" when referring to His incarnation.

There is a confession, which I cannot remember at the moment, which states essentially this point: That Jesus was complete God and complete man, without either aspect of either divinity or humanity supplanting the other. The doctrine of hypostasis somewhat describes this confession.

[ayin jade]

Do you have a response to the Fact that there is one Spirit who is God and one God who is the Father?

sounds like the Trinity to me

Gator your turn, show me one scripture that says what the trinity teaches, that God is actually 3 beings or persons separate from one another that share the same essence or matter. Show me one scripture that Says God is 3 people that are co-equal to one another. Show me a scripture that says they are separate but the same, and not one and the same.

At the baptism of Jesus, all 3 persons of the Trinity were present at one time, coexistent. How do oneness people explain that?

[BlindSeeker]

Jesus is NEVER referred to God the Father or as being one and the same with the Father anywhere in the Bible. Jesus prayed to His Father in Heaven. Jesus gave up certain privileges and prerogatives when He came to earth. One of those prviliges was omnipresence.

John 10:30 I and my Father are one [<

[ayin jade]

I think you are trying to explain away the way they baptized people to force it to fit your beliefs. Jesus was not 1/3 God ''the Son'' only He was fully and completely God.

I am not explaining anything away. you are making assumptions that are not in the word of God.

and yes I agree, Jesus was not 1/3 God, that is not what the trinity teaches.

you are starting to make strawmen here

Actually it is what the teach they teach Jesus is God the son that He is not the Father nor the holy spirit and the the 3 of them together make up 1 God. So if 3 parts make 1 whole and Jesus is only 1 of those 3 parts then He is 1/3 of the whole which would make Him 1/3 God.

Jesus is not 1/3 God. Belief in the Trinity does not say that. He is one person of God, fully God, not 1/3 God. Simple "logic"/ math doesnt explain the fullness of our Lord.

Ive always liked the sun analogy better for explaining the Trinity. You see the ball of fire that is our sun. You feel the heat of the rays that is the sun. You see the light itself on earth that is our sun. All 3 are one sun. It still falls short of explaining Him, but its better than the water/ ice/steam analogy.

[BlindSeeker]

Jesus was not a combination of God and man He was dually God and man at the same time.

Actually He is the mingling of God and man.

Actually . . . (if I can say that too) it was God tabernacling in the flesh amongst men.

Here's and old thread of mine called The Invisible Man were we see the power of flour to help explain . . .

A mingling is a compounding or mixing of elements without their loss of individual characteristics. Jesus did not sacrifice any aspect of His divine characteristics in becoming human, neither did His divinity supplant Jesus' complete humanity. Therefore it is right to use the term "mingled" when referring to His incarnation.

There is a confession, which I cannot remember at the moment, which states essentially this point: That Jesus was complete God and complete man, without either aspect of either divinity or humanity supplanting the other. The doctrine of hypostasis somewhat describes this confession.

I agree . . . I was just offering a third perspective.