Is a belief in the Trinity Doctrine neccessary for salvation?

[Ovedya]

Do I believe the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are three distinct personalities but One God? Yes.

Just out of curiosity because the way you formed the sentence. do you believe the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three different personalities, or do you believe they are three different persons?

Hi Ezekiel,

Personalities or Persons?

It they were persons they could not be One God.

However, I would submit there personalities are more distinct than traditionally taught.

I think we spend a lot of time focusing on the fact that they are all God.

However, the concept that they are all not each other is often lost, IMO, in the focus of the Oneness of them.

Respectfully,

Mudcat

I understand, however the hard core trinitarians like smiles would suggest your are not a true christian, if you do not believe the trinity as taught by them, that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are completely separate persons.

This is not my opinion, I believe you can understand God as you do and be just as christian as the next guy.

I am responding to your comment publicly because I believe it's warranted. Address the ISSUE not the PERSON.

[Larry 2]

Do you have to know of, understand, and believe in the Trinity to repent and be saved? No. I can't think of any Gospel presentation that clearly teaches the Trinity;for they are focusing on Christ's work, repentance, belief...

BUT.

You cannot be a Christian without believing in the Trinity.

You cannot be a Christian without believing in the virgin birth

You cannot be a Christian without believing Jesus is God

You cannot be a Christian without believing in the physical Resurrection of Christ

You cannot be a Christian without believing that it is grace that saves

etc...

The Trinity is a key orthodox belief and no true Christian will deny it.

All these rules laid down as to what we're to believe nearly makes be believe that children simply believing on the Lord Jesus Christ cannot be saved. Guess I was wrong. Let's see, they must believe in the trinity; of course some may not entirely understand it fully, so would that be acceptable? Not understanding what a virgin birth really meant, would God overlook that? Understanding that Jesus is God is a concept many grownups don't fully understand without study. Well I hope children understand what the physical resurrection of Jesus really meant. And then believing it is only grace that saves.

There is nothing wrong with all these beliefs and I do believe these things, though I don't believe that knowing them secures my salvation, but I read that Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him as righteousness; how could that be with all these rules? There was a Philippian jailer that cried out, sirs, what must I do to be saved? Do you think Paul and Silas told him, oh I reckon I must teach you about the virgin birth, the trinity, etc. No! Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. Then I don't believe that I heard of the thief on the cross telling Jesus of his knowledge of these things either. We are indeed to know these things, but not all do, and some of those that believed in Acts were unaware of the trinity. Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? We have not even heard there be any Holy ghost. If we have brethren that do not eat certain things for the Lord, and others eat all things, are they both believing they are saved by the same grace alone, or is a bit of works remaining in their walk with Christ? What does God say of this?

Romans 14:1-6. Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Addressing the article, I do not believe these rules apply to our salvation - They are meant for our growth

Edited September 13, 2008 by Larry 2

[Ovedya]

Do you have to know of, understand, and believe in the Trinity to repent and be saved? No. I can't think of any Gospel presentation that clearly teaches the Trinity;for they are focusing on Christ's work, repentance, belief...

BUT.

You cannot be a Christian without believing in the Trinity.

You cannot be a Christian without believing in the virgin birth

You cannot be a Christian without believing Jesus is God

You cannot be a Christian without believing in the physical Resurrection of Christ

You cannot be a Christian without believing that it is grace that saves

etc...

The Trinity is a key orthodox belief and no true Christian will deny it.

All these rules you are laying down as to what we're to believe nearly makes be believe that children simply believing on the Lord Jesus Christ cannot be saved. Guess I was wrong. Let's see, they must believe in the trinity; of course some may not entirely understand it fully, so would that be acceptable? Not understanding what a virgin birth really meant, would God overlook that? Understanding that Jesus is God is a concept many grownups don't fully understand without study. Well I hope children understand what the physical resurrection of Jesus really meant. And then believing it is only grace that saves.

There is nothing wrong with all these beliefs and I do believe these things, though I don't believe that knowing them secures my salvation, but I read that Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him as righteousness; how could that be with all these rules? There was a Philippian jailer that cried out, sirs, what must I do to be saved? Do you think Paul and Silas told him, oh I reckon I must teach you about the virgin birth, the trinity, etc. No! Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. Then I don't believe that I heard of the thief on the cross telling Jesus of his knowledge of these things either. We are indeed to know these things, but not all do, and some of those that believed in Acts were unaware of the trinity. Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? We have not even heard there be any Holy ghost. If we have brethren that do not eat certain things for the Lord, and others eat all things, are they both believing they are saved by the same grace alone, or is a bit of works remaining in their walk with Christ? What does God say of this?

Romans 14:1-6. Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

I'm sorry sister, but I don't agree with you -

What if you asked, "What do you mean by "Christian"? It is possible that smiles is speaking of the religious aspect of "the faith" rather than the personal aspect of our relationship with Christ.

[Larry 2]

Do you have to know of, understand, and believe in the Trinity to repent and be saved? No. I can't think of any Gospel presentation that clearly teaches the Trinity;for they are focusing on Christ's work, repentance, belief...

BUT.

You cannot be a Christian without believing in the Trinity.

You cannot be a Christian without believing in the virgin birth

You cannot be a Christian without believing Jesus is God

You cannot be a Christian without believing in the physical Resurrection of Christ

You cannot be a Christian without believing that it is grace that saves

etc...

The Trinity is a key orthodox belief and no true Christian will deny it.

Addressing the article as to do we need to believe in the trinity, and the statement made above that we must believe in trinity to be a true Christian, at the request of another I ask; What do you mean by "Christian" or true Christian. I reckon I messed up again assuming that a Christian referring to another as a Christian meant they were born again. I need to be brought up to date as what other type Christian people here talk about.

Thank you

[Smalcald]

Do you have to know of, understand, and believe in the Trinity to repent and be saved? No. I can't think of any Gospel presentation that clearly teaches the Trinity;for they are focusing on Christ's work, repentance, belief...

BUT.

You cannot be a Christian without believing in the Trinity.

You cannot be a Christian without believing in the virgin birth

You cannot be a Christian without believing Jesus is God

You cannot be a Christian without believing in the physical Resurrection of Christ

You cannot be a Christian without believing that it is grace that saves

etc...

The Trinity is a key orthodox belief and no true Christian will deny it.

Well said!

This is not well said, it is completely false, you can live a very christian life believing in Jesus and accepting Him not only as your Savior but Lord as well, and never agree with the doctrine of the trinity. Accepting any certain doctrine does not make you a christian or non christian. As long as we know who Jesus is to us, and that is Lord, and Savior.

But if you don't accept the divinity of Christ you don't know who Christ is. How many Lord's and Saviors do we have? Do we have three or four distinct God's that we pray to? Proactively rejecting the Trinity rejects the divinity of Christ, it tears Him down, and it rejects who Christ is. I know some people don't need to understand that when they come to Christ, but if they consciously refuse to accept that Christ is God, indeed they are not Christian. Because what they are doing is rejecting what scripture says about the most important thing in scripture, the very nature of Christ.

I guess I am really confused as to why any Christian would want to deny that Christ is God? Are we polytheists believing in multiple God's or do we reject that Christ is Lord of all? Those are the choices if you reject the Trinity.

As long as we know who Jesus is to us, and that is Lord, and Savior.

Mormans would all accept the above statement as true.

Proactively promoting that Christ is NOT God is the work of the anti-Christ. This is serious business. However like I have said earlier, you don't need to understand that to come to Christ, you don't need to understand doctrine to have faith, but that is much different than promoting or consciously accepting the heresy of rejecting the Trinity, which is the same as rejecting Christ. If you do not believe in the Trinity you are not worshipping the God of Holy Scripture.

[Ovedya]

Do you have to know of, understand, and believe in the Trinity to repent and be saved? No. I can't think of any Gospel presentation that clearly teaches the Trinity;for they are focusing on Christ's work, repentance, belief...

BUT.

You cannot be a Christian without believing in the Trinity.

You cannot be a Christian without believing in the virgin birth

You cannot be a Christian without believing Jesus is God

You cannot be a Christian without believing in the physical Resurrection of Christ

You cannot be a Christian without believing that it is grace that saves

etc...

The Trinity is a key orthodox belief and no true Christian will deny it.

Addressing the article as to do we need to believe in the trinity, and the statement made above that we must believe in trinity to be a true Christian, at the request of another I ask; What do you mean by "Christian" or true Christian. I reckon I messed up again assuming that a Christian referring to another as a Christian meant they were born again. I need to be brought up to date as what other type Christian people here talk about.

Thank you

I think it's important in a discussion like this to distinguish between "Christian" as being, "A part of the faith of Christianity" and "Christian" as being, "An individual follower of Christ." Some people tend to confuse the one with the other. In terms of Christianity smiles is correct. Those are the basic tenets of our faith. However only one of those items listed pertains to our individual faith in Christ - that which we need to first be regenerated.

[Guest shiloh357]

Do you have to know of, understand, and believe in the Trinity to repent and be saved? No. I can't think of any Gospel presentation that clearly teaches the Trinity;for they are focusing on Christ's work, repentance, belief...

BUT.

You cannot be a Christian without believing in the Trinity.

You cannot be a Christian without believing in the virgin birth

You cannot be a Christian without believing Jesus is God

You cannot be a Christian without believing in the physical Resurrection of Christ

You cannot be a Christian without believing that it is grace that saves

etc...

The Trinity is a key orthodox belief and no true Christian will deny it.

Well said!

This is not well said, it is completely false, you can live a very christian life believing in Jesus and accepting Him not only as your Savior but Lord as well, and never agree with the doctrine of the trinity. Accepting any certain doctrine does not make you a christian or non christian. As long as we know who Jesus is to us, and that is Lord, and Savior.

What smiles has delineated above are the primary defining elements of the Christian faith. There are no true Christians who deny, for example the deity of Jesus.

You don't have to know all of those things to get saved. God does not expect us to be theologians prior to salvation; however, everything listed above are things that are absolutely necessry to living a successful Christian life. None of those things are negotiable. If a person is truly born again, they will believe and teach those things above, as it is impossible to have balanced, and theologically stable Christian life without them.

The Bible is not a smorgasboard from which you can pick and choose according to your taste. We do not define the parameters of what can and cannot be discarded. We do not come to God on our terms.

I affirm what smiles posted.

[Larry 2]

I can't think of any Gospel presentation that clearly teaches the Trinity

The Trinity is a key orthodox belief and no true Christian will deny it.

Quoting you - I can't think of any Gospel presentation that clearly teaches the Trinity

My response - Believing you already know scripture showing the Father and the Son as God, I will just add the one verse below to aid you in seeing the triunity of God.

The Holy Spirit is called God in Acts 5:3-4. "But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? 4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

[BlindSeeker]

I guess I am really confused as to why any Christian would want to deny that Christ is God? Are we polytheists believing in multiple God's or do we reject that Christ is Lord of all? Those are the choices if you reject the Trinity.

What if someone claimed trinitarians were polytheist and that they cannot be true christians? How would you fell about that?

I have heard the trinity taught as each having their own separate body,soul and spirit . . . that they are one in species (for lack of a better word) and purpose as Christians are to be one . . . is that acceptable?

Edited September 13, 2008 by BlindSeeker

[BlindSeeker]

I guess I am really confused as to why any Christian would want to deny that Christ is God? Are we polytheists believing in multiple God's or do we reject that Christ is Lord of all? Those are the choices if you reject the Trinity.

What if someone claimed trinitarians were polytheist and that they cannot be true christians? How would you fell about that?

I have heard the trinity taught as each having their own separate body,soul and spirit . . . that they are one in species (for lack of a better word) and purpose Christians are to be one . . . is that acceptable?

No I do not think that would be acceptable nor do I think that most (maybe some) would agree with that interpretation of the trinity if so then they may well be polytheist.

I believe it was Jimmy Swaggart who taught it that way.