oneness vs trinity

[traveller]

Warning people. Don't let the debate regress to push and shove. If that's what you want to do, you'll have to go outside to play.

[BlindSeeker]

Warning people. Don't let the debate regress to push and shove. If that's what you want to do, you'll have to go outside to play.

And I'm not to be tempted beyond what I can over come . . . .

Luv ya

[BlindSeeker]

What causes it? The reading of the Word with the open heart which then the Holy Spirit is able to teach.

any specific passages from the Bible that lead to your conclusion or is it just a feeling you got from the Holy Spirit?

RunningGator,

I'm confused why you two would be pushing this point. All in the body of believers are on different points of the road as we journey towards the celestial city. Certainly, those before Moses were absolutely obliged to walk by the Spirit since the written word was not yet given. I believe He is not less able today to direct and influence the heart of people today to correctly face themselves toward His desired end. Floatingaxe has continually proven that she is face forward toward the kingdom and moving thereto. I fail to see how this discourse between you two is beneficial to either of you or the thread itself.

Both of you have shown your love and zeal for God, I would pray that charity prevail.

Peace.

[traveller]

Though is isn't entirely related to the topic at hand - I did want to expand a bit on what I asked earlier. So, take a short walk through the workings of my mind. (scarey I know - but I think entirely painless)

OK - When I read the OT the first half of the book ( ), I'm immersed in the land of the Israelites. I envision Almighty God, forging a nation, bringing them through the trials and tribulations required to shape and mold them into a people that will bring forth the Messiah. I see Him in full Glory, at the creation of the universe - of naming the stars and angels and reigning over all. And I see Him as He is dealing with, for lack of a better word, them. I know that the examples in the first half are for our benefit as well, but mostly what I see is His glorious plan unfold as He takes us through the mountains and valleys, wars and rebellions, victories and defeats, as He reveals to us His promise of a coming King. I absolutely love the first half, as it is our beginning, our glorious promise, but it's also our frailties and downfalls. I see a Holy One that inhabits the praises of His people, and One that leads, guides and directs their steps. He is an all encompassing God.

Now, when I read the second half, I see Jesus, and He's looking straight at me. I have gone from seeing Almighty God dealing with a nation, to seeing my Lord and my Saviour that is dealing directly with me.

In the OT, I envision a globe in which God is traversing - country to country - nation to nation. But in the NT, I see Him parked in my driveway. Instead of forging a nation on His hearth, He is molding my heart on the potter's wheel. I guess that's what I'm trying to get at by saying that I see it differently. He went from a nation, the whole world, to me. And not only to me, but to me, a gentile.

I know this is all about perspective - but this is how I see it. Almighty God, that set things in motion and Very God, that deals with me. Perhaps this isn't about personalities, but that I see it that way when it turns personal.

OK - I'll get outta y'alls hair now.

[Floatingaxe]

if you can not give passages from the Bible to back up what you are saying then it is not supported Biblically, it is that simple.

this is not an insult, this is a fact.

As I was saying, it's all biblical.

and as I was saying, if you cant give a biblical (as in verses and passages) defense of an idea, it is not biblical.

so then I take it you dont agree that one should be able to provide verses and passages to support their view?

It is good enough to say "well the Spirit" told me so even though it is not really in the Bible?

For all believers, we are left to wonder at the various appearances of the Lord in human form, pre-incarnation. We are left to ponder Melchizadek's true identity, for instance. It is for you and for me to choose. There are many who choose to believe he is pre-incarnate Christ, and many scholars ascribe to that belief.

So, to say he isn't Jesus takes the same amount of thoughtful deduction as it does to accept that he is. God gives us many opportunities throughout all of Scripture to wonder at many things.

He lets us choose how to believe. It is not outlandish to believe that Jesus, who was ever with God---no beginning, no end, has presented Himself to men in the OT. After all, God is Spirit and for one to visibly encounter Him AS HE IS, DIES. Where there are gaps of information, we must always ask the Holy Spirit to direct our understanding and be cautious that the rest of Scripture agrees. He allows us the choice in how to believe these things.

[BlindSeeker]

RunningGator,

I'm confused why you two would be pushing this point. All in the body of believers are on different points of the road as we journey towards the celestial city. Certainly, those before Moses were absolutely obliged to walk by the Spirit since the written word was not yet given. I believe He is not less able today to direct and influence the heart of people today to correctly face themselves toward His desired end. Floatingaxe has continually proven that she is face forward toward the kingdom and moving thereto. I fail to see how this discourse between you two is beneficial to either of you or the thread itself.

Both of you have shown your love and zeal for God, I would pray that charity prevail.

Peace.

I will fully admit I have do not like when someone makes a statement about the Bible and what it teaches and can not back it up with good reasoning and multiple passages.

Knowing in your heart without being able to support it is not good enough for me, it that was good enough then I would have no reason to discount what any Mormon has to say as they are fully convicted in their heart that they are led by the Spirit.

Also when dealing with non-Christians, there is nothing that will turn them off faster than this sort of statement, it makes the Christian come off looking either as trying to be sneaky or not having the knowledge to back up their beliefs, both of which are bad.

Peter told us to be able to give an answer for what we believer, and I think we should be able to. I know personally I would never put forth an idea as anything more than a wild guess without some sort of Biblical support.

I will admit that also I have had this problem with FA in the past, which is why I pushed it in this thread.

The irony is that I dont totally disagree with her, I just want people to be able to back up what they put forth.

I fully understand your position. But there is a difference between Peter encouraging the believers to be ready always to give an answer to every man that asks you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear. But we must remember his admonition of "meekness and fear."

However, these words are best expected from those who have reached a level of maturity and responsibility to be promoters of the faith and those defenders as well. There are still the sincere believers who as of yet, due to time and opportunity, to have reached such a level of ministry, but nonetheless still know that they know by the divine working in their hearts. We need to be careful lest we demand of a brother or sister explanation for a real and true conviction of heart that they have yet to master the expounding thereof.

Charity.

[traveller]

This topic has gone a full circle, and will be closed. Thank you everyone for your consideration. I am also compelled to add that this ministry allows certain topics to be discussed as long as the clear teaching of the thread is in agreement with WorthyBoards Statement of Faith. Questions may be asked and the topic explored, but no other teaching is allowed. Below is Worthy's SOF:

Statement of Faith

We believe in God, the almighty creator of heaven and earth.

We believe in the triunity of God. We believe that God is eternally One, and also eternally the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit -- the three being distinct, but not separate. Each Person of the Godhead coexists from everlasting to everlasting.

We believe in the Messiah, Jesus, God's only begotten son, God come in the flesh. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius Pilate. He was crucified, died and buried. On the third day, He rose again. Soon afterward He ascended into heaven. Now He is seated at the right hand of the Father and He will return to judge both the living and the dead and reign for evermore.

We believe all mankind are sinful and are therefore subject to God