JESUS = Rabi?

[Guest shiloh357]

But a little common sense will tell you that He could not have been recognized as "rabbi" if He were not one and that would require some kind of "standards test" training. There were absolutely certain channels that anyone would have to go through to receive this kind of recognized authority within Israel.

Thus, Yeshua absolutely was formally trained or He would not have been recognized as a Rabbi

today yes, in 100 AD yes, in 30 AD it is not as clear cut.

From what I have read on this topic the formal training for Rabbis did not start till after the destruction of the temple.

It is more than possible that He was recognized as "rabbi" based on his teachings and his actions not because of some paper he carried.

There is nothing to suggest that "formal" training did not begin until after the destruction of the Temple. Formal training did take on a different form, but that does not mean that it did not exist prior.

When you examine what a Rabbi had to know and the skill sets required even in ancient times, common sense would indicate that some kind of formal training had to have occurred. You would not want someone sitting on a judicial panel in a bet din making decisions who was not expert and well versed in the intracies and innerworkings of Jewish law. That kind of knowledge requirement argues for some kind of formal training.

If were to compare apples to apples, we would expect an advanced education for someone in a similar position today.

We tend to underestimate what people had to know and sophistication of that knowledge even in ancient times.

[Guest HIS girl]

Can I say something about sandals??

This is absolutely TRUE.

This morning as I parked for work, I fed the straps of my sandals through the buckles and thought " Wow, my heels are looking pretty dry!!"....(very hot here in Aus at the mo)

ANYWAY.....

it got me thinking about Jesus and how He walked everywhere on dusty roads etc and what the state of HIS heels would have been in.. I felt a little silly in my own vanity lol

I can see why they used to wash the feet and used perfumes and oils in His day...

Just thought I'd share that with you all......

So....no one liked my interlude about Me, Jesus and sandals I gather....?

[Guest HIS girl]

We tend to underestimate what people had to know and sophistication of that knowledge even in ancient times.

Absolutely...!!

[alycia]

Can I say something about sandals??

This is absolutely TRUE.

This morning as I parked for work, I fed the straps of my sandals through the buckles and thought " Wow, my heels are looking pretty dry!!"....(very hot here in Aus at the mo)

ANYWAY.....

it got me thinking about Jesus and how He walked everywhere on dusty roads etc and what the state of HIS heels would have been in.. I felt a little silly in my own vanity lol

I can see why they used to wash the feet and used perfumes and oils in His day...

Just thought I'd share that with you all......

So....no one liked my interlude about Me, Jesus and sandals I gather....?

I did

[KC02]

From what I have read concerning Rabbis (because of this thread) is that they turn down most would-be disciples. They only accept those they feel could be "just like them."

It's interesting to think that Jesus has more confidence in us than we have in ourselves. He expects us to be just like Him, not to fail on the way but to be overcomers. Our Rabbi laid down His life so that His disciples could be overcomers and be like Him.

The intimate Rabbi Jesus is a person we should see. The one who is with us. The one who teaches us. The one who cares about us. The one who picks us up each time we fall...

[Floatingaxe]

From what I have read concerning Rabbis (because of this thread) is that they turn down most would-be disciples. They only accept those they feel could be "just like them."

It's interesting to think that Jesus has more confidence in us than we have in ourselves. He expects us to be just like Him, not to fail on the way but to be overcomers. Our Rabbi laid down His life so that His disciples could be overcomers and be like Him.

The intimate Rabbi Jesus is a person we should see. The one who is with us. The one who teaches us. The one who cares about us. The one who picks us up each time we fall...

Thank you for this simple, yet eloquent post.

[Guest shiloh357]

From what I have read concerning Rabbis (because of this thread) is that they turn down most would-be disciples. They only accept those they feel could be "just like them."

Rabbis choose their talmidim based on their competency and who demonstrate a certain degree of passion for learning Torah.

There were three basic schools for boys in ancient Israel:

1. Beit Seiphar - This was for the youngest boys from around 5 years old through the pre-teen years

2. Beit Midrash - This was for boys from about 12-15

3. Beit Talmud - From about 15 until age 30. Only THE BEST from the Beit Midrash were allowed to advance to the Beit Talmud It was here they they learned to memorize the Torah, and to study the Oral Law. The Rabbis then only chose the best of the best from the Beit Talmud to continue onward in their education to full fleged Rabbis.

It's interesting to think that Jesus has more confidence in us than we have in ourselves. He expects us to be just like Him, not to fail on the way but to be overcomers. Our Rabbi laid down His life so that His disciples could be overcomers and be like Him.

The intimate Rabbi Jesus is a person we should see. The one who is with us. The one who teaches us. The one who cares about us. The one who picks us up each time we fall...

Well the difference is that unlike the ancient Rabbis and even the Rabbis of today, Jesus is the only Rabbi who could actually transform someone into being His disciple. Jesus is different because He lives inside us in the person of the Holy Spirit and empowers us to be like Him.

[Massorite]

You should study up on the order of the Nazarenes who were raised to be prophets and we all know that Jesus was a Nazarene.

was Jesus a Nazarene by nature of being part of the order or Nazarenes, or by nature of living in Nazareth

Matt 2:23

And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene.

One of the reasons Jesus had long hair was because among other regulations of the order or sect of the Nazarines, HE was not allowed to cut his hair as long as HE was separated unto the Lord.

In the book of Numbers 6:2-21 we can learn that Nazarenes took a vow to separate themselves from the world unto the Lord. We find that they can not eat anything that is made with wine or the kernels of the husk, they can not drink wine or strong drink and so on.

We should always remember that Jesus had to fallow some of the same biblical guild lines as other Rabbi,s. He did not become a Rabbi with out credentials and those credentials were provided by the time He spent as a Nazarite and since we know that Jesus died with long hair we know that Jesus was still a member of the sect or order of the Nazarites because He did not finish His time as a Nazarene. According to Numbers 6:13-18 before He was crucified.

Nowhere does the Bible say that Jesus was a Nazarite. Nazarene was what those outside the believing community called the Jewish followers of Jesus/Y'shua. There are some ancient 1st/2nd century rabbinical writings mentioning the "Notzrim" (Nazarenes).

Nazarite should not be confused with "Nazarene." They have no relationship. There is no evidence that Jesus had long hair. Unless you believe in the Shroud of Turin nonsense.

I made a mistake when I used the word "Nazarite" to speak of the sect of the "Nazarenes". In reality when some one is from Nazarith they are called a Nazarite. But when some one belongs to the "Sect of the Nazarenes" they are called a "Nazarene" and there should be no question about how in Matthew 2:23 Jesus fulfilled prophecy by being called a "Nazarene". However there seems to be some confusion on which word to use to describe Jesus the Nazarite or Jesus the Nazarene In the book of Judges 13:5 the bible prophecies about Samson. "For Lo you shall conceive and bear a son; and no razor shall come on His head: for the child shall be called a Nazarite unto God from the womb: and He shall begin to etc.

So here we see that scripture clearly calls Samson a Nazarite who will not use a razer on his hair. Which is one of the qualifications that needed to be fallowed when one becomes a Nazarene. Having Long Hair is part of being in the sect.

In this verse the word "Nazarite" is speaking of a prince or a ruler who is consecrated (set apart) from his brethren unto God. (according to the Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon) a Nazarene/Nazarite is a devotee unto God and is to abstain intoxicants, cutting hair and so on.

IN Amos 2:11-12 God is rebuking Israelites for corrupting and forcing the Nazarite to stop prophesying. From these scriptures we know that Jesus was a Nazarite/Nazarene from Nazareth which was where the sect of the sect of the Nazarenes was based at the time of Jesus.

In Acts 24:5 we find the sect of the Nazarenes mentioned again, so by this we know that the sect of the Nazarenes existed in both the new testament and the old testament.

Other then the fact that Jesus was of the sect of the Nazarites/Nazarenes there is no other proof that Jesus had long hair in the bible. But there are ancient documented secular historical record that says that Jesus had was of the sect of the Nazarenes and had long hair. But the biblical record is enough for me.

[Guest shiloh357]

In reality when some one is from Nazarith they are called a Nazarite.

No, being from Nazareth made someone a Nazarene.

Being a Nazarite had NOTHING to do with being from the town of Nazareth. The Bible makes no connection between the Nazarite vow, the town of Nazareth or a sect called the Nazarenes.

So here we see that scripture clearly calls Samson a Nazarite who will not use a razer on his hair. Which is one of the qualifications that needed to be fallowed when one becomes a Nazarene. Having Long Hair is part of being in the sect.

Where do you get this information?

IN Amos 2:11-12 God is rebuking Israelites for corrupting and forcing the Nazarite to stop prophesying. From these scriptures we know that Jesus was a Nazarite/Nazarene from Nazareth which was where the sect of the sect of the Nazarenes was based at the time of Jesus.

What is your historical basis for this claim?

There is nothing in Amos 2 to suggest that Jesus was a Nazarite. In fact, we know from the New Testament that Jesus drank wine.

Do you have any historical evidence of the sect of the Nazarenes in pre-New Testament times apart from Scripture? When did the sect begin? Did they produce any literature?

In Acts 24:5 we find the sect of the Nazarenes mentioned again, so by this we know that the sect of the Nazarenes existed in both the new testament and the old testament.

In Acts 24: 5, the "sect of Nazarenes" is referring to Jewish believers. It is another term for Christians.

[Guest yod]

Our Rabbi laid down His life so that His disciples could be overcomers and be like Him.

and this is what sets Him apart from all other rabbis, kings, lords, angels and men!