What is atheism?

[Guest]

....Don't tell me I was making a conscious decision not to believe (the religious always falsely make that assertion as if they know my mind), but that wasn't the case. If you say that I made a conscious decision not to believe in God then you are just demonstrating that you are constrained by your preconceived judgements.

Dear Hitchey

I Don't Know About The Religious (The Self Righteous Folks) But You Did Choose To Disk The LORD Jesus

The Bible Tells Me So

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

Hebrews 3:12

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When I realized I no longer believed it was as if the thought slammed physically into me out of nowhere. I didn't see it coming and it was not concocted out of a long drawn-out process of reasoning as you would like to imagine.

And I Have No Doubt At All You Were Spiritually And Violently Slammed

The Bible Tells Me So

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

2 Corinthians 4:3-4

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.... I didn't mean to land on you like that, but I repeatedly hear the same refrain from Christians who think I made a conscious choice not to believe in God. They never take me at my word and it is very frustrating.

Looking At Your Future I Am Very Frightened, For You See Dear Hitchey

I Take God At HIS Word

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 3:16

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And His Word Is My Joy

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.

Jeremiah 15:16

Take Another Bit!

[rstrats]

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Edited May 17, 2009 by rstrats

[OneLight]

The best explanation I can give for this term is the following:

Mark 16:14

Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen.

Christ used the words because of their unbelief.

There is also the passage from Exodus 7:3-4 that comes to mind. "But I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and though I multiply my miraculous signs and wonders in Egypt, he will not listen to you." So God hardened Pharaoh's will against Moses, or made Pharaoh intransigent.

In centuries past the heart was viewed as the seat of human emotion, hence the biblical expression. We now know that seat of emotion is the brain and recognize the heart is only muscle. I guess that's my objection. Harden the heart is too poetic for me, but if you wish to use the older expression I will adapt.

Do you believe that we are body, soul and spirit? I do ... Below is a post I made awhile back in another thread ...

Trying to make it as simple as possible ...

Spirit ... the driving force behind the human ... the entity that is alive, even after physical death.

Soul ... The personality of the spirit, emotions.

Body ... the tool we use to function in this life where the brain is the control panel.

[OneLight]

Do you believe that we are body, soul and spirit? I do ... Below is a post I made awhile back in another thread ...

Trying to make it as simple as possible ...

Spirit ... the driving force behind the human ... the entity that is alive, even after physical death.

Soul ... The personality of the spirit, emotions.

Body ... the tool we use to function in this life where the brain is the control panel.

I only ever believed in the body and soul. The soul I saw as that aspect of our bodies that made it possible for us to survive death. The soul went on to another place and it was synonymous with ghost (did I ever tell you I once believed in ghosts?). I always viewed spirit as an invention of the Catholics. I believed in God and Jesus, not the Holy Spirit. As if God needed a messenger other than the angels. I had never heard of spirt as being an aspect of the soul, or is it the other way around? That is something I may only have picked up in the last few weeks, or months, I am not certain. It all seems a bit fuzzy. Is this something, OneLight, that everyone here agrees on?

I can't answer for anyone else, but it is what I believe in. Hmmm, you used the word "saw" when referring to the soul. Am I correct to think that you no longer think this way? The reference to the spirit has been around much longer then the Catholic religion ... very much longer.

[Guest yod]

You know Yod, many atheists claim that those who return to God were not really atheists in the first place. It is the reverse of the other popular argument: Christians who become atheists were never true Christians to begin with.

Were you a true atheist?

What's your story?

Oh yes, I was a devout atheist!

My mom brought me to church once when I was about 6 or 7.

Then my step-mom (whom I didn't have a good relationship with) brought me to Catholic church for about a year there when I was 14. I had read "Chariots of the Gods" and it made more sense than what I was hearing at this church.

To make matters worse, my stepmom was a nurse at the county clinic counseling young girls to get abortions. I could see through the hypocrisy of it all. That poor woman has wasted every Sunday of her life because she doesn't have any relationship to the Lord, only rituals that assuage her guilt.

And the Priest came over and got my dad drunk one day....not good.

Then one Easter service the Priest said that Jesus was in the grave for 3 days and 3 nights. Well, Friday afternoon to Sunday morning is only 2 nights and a day. These people can't even count?????!?!??!

I became an atheist by age 15. I was SUCH an atheist that my little garage band wouldn't play ACDC because I considered it "religious" to sing to satan also.

I debated christians and laughed at their reasoning for the next 15 years. Then one day I heard that the Sabbath was Friday at sundown to Saturday at sundown and thought that I'd found a really delicious way to make christians shutup. So I began really digging for the truth. I'd heard Christmas and Easter were pagan and figured I'd just get at the root of the whole "christian" thing.

What I found was that there are a LOT of christian traditions that have nothing to do with the Bible. So I figured the Bible would be just as easy to ridicule and disprove.

On that point I was verrrrry wrong.

Have you ever given God an honest try?

There are many "gods" but the One who has announced from old the things to come lives outside of human explanation. Would you consider reading what Isaiah said about Jesus hundreds of years before He came as swaddling baby in Bethlehem?

I'd be glad to help you with it....

[Believer1997]

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By far, one of your most profound and persuasive posts. I applaud you!!!

[SoulGrind]

I don't understand why examining the Bible would make you believe in God. I examined the Bible and researched it as thoroughly as I could. I found nothing to make me believe.

A _GREAT_ resource for anyone who struggles with this _EXACT_ same topic owes it to themselves to read Lee Stroble's book "A Case for Christ."

Lee Stroble was/is a lawyer/attorney.

Lee Stroble was an athiest.

Through the process of detailed investigation as though he was preparing evidence against the Bible for some up coming court case, Lee Stroble came to the sobering conclusion that the evidence he was compiling actually supported the Biblical account and testimony.

It was through this earnest and honest research that Lee Stroble finally acknowledged that the Bible is the Word of God and that Jesus Christ truly is the Son of God and that God is who He claims to be - in other words, Lee Stroble denounced atheism in favor of believing in God.

To me, this is a very strong testimony.

Here we have a devout atheist who happens to be a seasoned legal specialist; well versed in legal and investigative procedures and through dedicated study and research all on the side of atheism, he came to the conclusion he was wrong and that the Biblical account was indeed true.

There have been other such cases throughout history.

It begs the question - what was so compelling about their discoveries that these hardened atheists would actually turn and embrace Christianity?

Again, I suggest you read the book - this might be a good launch pad for your campaign to learn the truth.

[SoulGrind]

BTW - I have to amend my statement about "A Case For Christ" by Lee Stroble...

He was not a lawyer, but an investigative journalist. My bad...

Lee Strobel, an ex-investigative reporter for the Chicago Tribune who describes himself as a "former spiritual skeptic," is a teaching pastor at Willow Creek Community Church.

[SoulGrind]

BTW - I have to amend my statement about "A Case For Christ" by Lee Stroble...

He was not a lawyer, but an investigative journalist. My bad...

Lee Strobel, an ex-investigative reporter for the Chicago Tribune who describes himself as a "former spiritual skeptic," is a teaching pastor at Willow Creek Community Church.

Okay. There is a Johnson who is a lawyer, and a Creationist, and he has written some books. Maybe that's who you had in mind when you said Stroble was a lawyer. My memory was wrong on that one too.

I'm not familiar with Johnson... nonetheless, I do recommend Stroble's book. Amazon.com has some nice reviews about the book and I think you'll find additional insight into his writing style. I'm hardly a literary critic you know.

[SoulGrind]

I've got a feeling I probably wouldn't see it that way. I likely would think his arguments riddled with holes, but I'd have to read it to know for sure.

I can't say I found any holes. He presents the evidence fairly clearly and succinctly and builds his arguments based upon readily available facts.

The problem is studying the Bible requires much more advanced knowledge than Stroble would possess. He would need to take into account the Gnostic gospels, Dead Sea Scrolls, other pertinent ancient documents and modern contemporary biblical research. Did he do this?

Given that position, this would eliminate a great percentage of the Christian population as many do not possess such knowledge. Many people read the Bible and because of lack of understanding of the original Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic, sometimes certain words or phrases lack the true meaning as there is not always a literal translation.

For example, when we speak of the love between a man and a woman, we all pretty much know what that means.

But when we speak of the love between God and man, we have to take pause and reflect. What kind of 'love' are we talking about? Brotherly love? Romantic love? Emotional love? Erotic love? Or is it something more... We call is "Agape Love."

While the word "love" is a correct translation, sometimes the exact meaning isn't entirely understood until it is read in context and with some background knowledge.

Additional elements would not rely so much on things such as the Gnostic gospels or the Dead Sea Scrolls, but more in terms of ancient traditions, rituals, etc. For example, when we discuss the crucifixion, death, burial and resurrection of Christ, we say he died on the first day (Friday) and rose on Sunday (the third day). This isn't much of a problem until you start thinking about exact periods of 24 hours. It's not until you understand how ancient Jews kept track of time does it all fall into place.

There are many such aspects to the Biblical account. When people merely "skim the surface" it's quite easy to find contradictions. It's not until you dig down and realize there is continuity and harmony and spans 66 books, over 50 authors and a period of 2000 years. And this makes for one of the Bible's most compelling pieces of evidence in it's favor.

Anyway - I hope you pick the book up and give it a read. You may or may not agree. But it does sound like you're searching for answers and do have an interest, so I'm glad to help out.