Man has dominion

[kross]

I would actually take it that this person meant that man has sovereingty over animals and plants and that sort of thing, meaning we have a kind of priority over the rest of creation. I don't think it has anything to with God not being in control or relinquishing all His power over the earth. But we are stewards over the rest of creation, if you will. Still under God, and God is still sovereign over all.

I hope I'm explaining that right...my brain is kinda fuzzy from lack of sleep right now.

I hope you have returned to realize that there are those who feel GOD has given man sveriegnty, and GOD can not do anything without man's permission.

Not what i believe and I do not think it is what you believe (based on this post)

[Poindexter]

Good reply but man is still being dominated by plants..the drug culture ought to show us that. I always wonder how it is that Christ came to set us free yet many are still on a sinking ship. If one names it and claims it then one is castigated for kingdom dominion heresy. Christianity reminds me of a barrel of crabs. If an enterprising crab climbs up the side of the barrel in a bid to escape, the other crabs will pull him back down. This is not directed to Mike here at all...just a generic overview...

Some people are being dominated by "plants." Since not all of us use drugs, it would follow that we are not all "controlled" by plants, and those that are "controlled" by plants (drugs) are not controlled because there is no other way. They are controlled by these substances because they have willingly given their own control up to the drug in question.

God is still in control of His creation, but we have been given stewardship of it.

God is in control? In a way he is. But he gave dominion to men. That is why there is disorder. For we had dominion and we gave it to Satan....even Jesus did not deny his (Satan's) claim to the earth...Mat 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; Mat 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil but that job is not yet done. Astonished at that?

So you do not think that disorder can fit into GOD's plan? The scriptures tell us that it is GOD who brings calamity and peace.

I have always been fascinated by the notion that some folk have that GOD's creation is not exactly what GOD intends it to be. How can Romans8:28 be true if GOD is not in control of "all" things? Why would anything that is actually a GOD create something HE did not know what it would be or how it would turn out? And if HE did know how it would turn out, than how is it not understood that HE created it to turn out just as it is?

I would not say that creation is not unfolding the way God intends it to be. I am just saying man forfeited his dominion over to the devil. God is still in the process of taking it back. Because He is just. Even the devil gets full rights to the turf. For now. I am therefore saying God uses the devil to bring about His ends. All the while we exist in a fallen state. Let us compare how many folks are not captive to plants etc. I am not. Unless I include wheat as I indulge my daily bread. Most Christians have some temperance. But against the backdrop of humanity what is the score? But Christians are not occupying til He comes all that well. We have not given up much ground because we never had it in the first place. I am explaining in my limited rationale why evil exists and bad things happen to good people. And we have dominion over the animals and the earth......so we can bring about imbalance to the exosphere...is that God or the devil?

Edited October 29, 2008 by Poindexter

[Iryssa]

I would have to agree that fallen man has lost his grip on stewardship over the earth...as Christians, therefore, we should be taking that up again, being good stewards, set apart from those who don't know God and who are being bad stewards, letting all these things run amok over them.

As far as scores and how good a job we are doing occupying until he comes...well, time and time again in the Bible it says that as the End draws near the world is going to be sunk deeper and deeper into sin. It's easy to look at that and think "the battle is lost," but we must remember that God has already won. The battles are yet to be fought (at least as we see it, since we are bound in time), but they are already decided. In the end, God is the victor. We must hold fast, enduring to the end, because it's going to get worse before it gets better.

[irishcowboy]

The other day I read a post from someone who stated that man has been given dominion over the Earth.

The read as if the person felt that GOD had given man control over what happens here and HE was just taking care of Heaven.

I was wondering if there are Christians that believe this or if I just read into the post?

Thanks.

At the fall, man kinda lost it. Even the plants have dominion over men now. Corn, rye, cannabis, poppies etc...drinking and smoking all the way to hellish nightmares.

Man lost it when Adam fell, Man received it when Christ ascended and the Spirit of God flows through out the world.

Through the salvation provided through the Son of God, man has been reconciled with God (should man choose to) and thus through the Holy Spirit, man has been granted dominion (again) over this earth. yes, even over plants and animals.

as Saul of Tarsus, being clamped onto (bitten) by a viper (dominion over animals), he shook it off into the fire, with no ill effect. The Holy Spirit will provide us this same protection (as long as we do our part, and that is walking in the Spirit, not in the flesh). John, boiled in oil and lived, that would be dominion over plants and or minerals.

We are a Spirit being, housed in a physical body. we do not have to live our lives as though the physical is all there is, there is more then just physical world, our world should be more spirit then physical.

mike

Good reply but man is still being dominated by plants..the drug culture ought to show us that. I always wonder how it is that Christ came to set us free yet many are still on a sinking ship. If one names it and claims it then one is castigated for kingdom dominion heresy. Christianity reminds me of a barrel of crabs. If an enterprising crab climbs up the side of the barrel in a bid to escape, the other crabs will pull him back down. This is not directed to Mike here at all...just a generic overview...

I understand what you are saying, those that are being controlled by "plants" are not with Christ. point; I was bound by "plants" (tobacco) and I had no power over it, God took it from me. I was tired of them, was hooked prior to ever lighting one up, I was hooked as a teen and never lit one up. it was not until boot camp that I ever lit one up, and it had no effect on me. When I turned it over to God, laid them at the alter and finally left them there, I have had no desire at all, even being around others that are smoking. No withdrawl either....

a young man i know very well, was running on a three day high with Crystal Meth, bound, could not get free, even some one just using aluminum foil would set off a trigger to have a "NEED" for it..... one day, (or night, not sure which, and it does not matter) while on this three day high, floating, God told him that if he did not stop using that junk that he was going to loose his mind and die. this young man hit the floor with his knees, and sobered up, and has been free......FREE.... from this bondage, he was given dominion over this.

those following Christ, DO HAVE power, given them by the Holy Spirit, those that are not following Christ, do not have this, for they have not accepted the Gospel of Christ.

you are also correct, that if one crab tries to get out of the barrel the others are pulling him down.... that is just what was happening to Jesus when He went to His home town. the religious leaders of His time could not stand Him being "outside" the normal, and they were hellbent on keeping things "NORMAL"....

Christianity is anything but normal, we are a PECULIAR PEOPLE.... we are not normal, we are a stranger in the land (that is if we are following Christ. we will meet with resistance in all we do for Christ.

WE NEED TO BE MORE LIKE THE ONE OF TWO FROGS IN THE BUCKET OF FRESH MILK.

two frogs fell into a bucket of fresh (raw) milk, try as they might, they could not get out, even a frog can only be in water for a while before they have to get some where they can rest. and with milk there is no oxygen for them to get anything from it, too dense also......

after a good while, they are getting tired, and they are still trying to get out. finally one frog says to the other Whats the use, we will never get out of here, why fight it? and he just gives us, finally he is waterlogged (milk logged) and starts dropping to the bottom.

The other frog, kept on kicking and floundering, refusing to give up. after a while, the second frog noticed the milk was getting thicker and thicker, this he did not understand, but kept kicking and kicking. after some time, the milk had separated from the cream, and the frog had churned up the cream and made butter, and was able to jump out of the bucket.

No one ever said being a Christian, a true follower of Christ, would be an easy task, on the contrary, it will be a tough time.

what man allows to happen to him, is up to the man.....

it is said that about 90% of the things that happen to us, we have control over.... flat tire? yep, that too, we can prevent them to a point, engine break down? them too, yes, we can prevent them from happening. house fires? yes, one family i know had two fires with in 6 months, burned two houses down (rentals), both could have been prevented, and the mother was the cause and was blaming owner for the fires (one was an electric fan that was faultily repaired by the tenants, the other was using a space heater instead of using the gas furnace).

when we begin taking responsibility for our own actions, and not allowing satan to gain a foot hold, much less then a strong hold, on our lives, we can gain dominion, as was granted us, restored to us, over all things, ESPECIALLY OVER THE DEVIL.

mike

[stormy612]

When I came to salvation, I turned MY will over to Him, and received God's will in return. So it is no longer MY will but His be done.

A verse God gave me early in my salvation (and one He keeps bringing me back to) is: (emphasis mine)

Deuteronomy 9:4-6 Speak not thou in thine heart, after that the LORD thy God hath cast them out from before thee, saying, For my righteousness the LORD hath brought me in to possess this land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD doth drive them out from before thee. Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, doest thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that He may perform the word which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Understand therefore, that the LORD thy God giveth thee not this good land to possess it for thy righteousness; for thou art a stiff-necked people.

So, Satan has been given dominion over the earth (Adam turned over possession to him), and He has placed us here in order that He would drive the wickedness out of it then He gives it to us to possess. Jesus comes and provides salvation to our hearts and a new home-the Kingdom of God, thus we are strangers here now.

My understanding is that we are to abide here, for a time, tending to God's will-that ALL should come to Him (as many as will) showing firm in our faith, while the Holy Spirit 'drives' wickedness out of the hearts of people through the salvation of Christ. And, after all is said and done, this earth will be destroyed and God will give us a new one.

I am to be a good steward over that which I have been given by Him-my tiny apartment, my work, my money, my food, etc. All this serves two purposes through Him: 1) to provide sanctuary to those in need to reveal His goodness towards man 2) to drive wickedness out of the hearts of the lost through said provisions. Satan comes to kill, steal, and destroy. Jesus comes to give life and life abundantly.

Please be gentle with me-I'm just an 8 year old babe in Christ and haven't as much learning as I would like yet. I hope what I mean is understood.

[kross]

When I came to salvation, I turned MY will over to Him, and received God's will in return. So it is no longer MY will but His be done.

A verse God gave me early in my salvation (and one He keeps bringing me back to) is: (emphasis mine)

Deuteronomy 9:4-6 Speak not thou in thine heart, after that the LORD thy God hath cast them out from before thee, saying, For my righteousness the LORD hath brought me in to possess this land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD doth drive them out from before thee. Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, doest thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that He may perform the word which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Understand therefore, that the LORD thy God giveth thee not this good land to possess it for thy righteousness; for thou art a stiff-necked people.

So, Satan has been given dominion over the earth (Adam turned over possession to him), and He has placed us here in order that He would drive the wickedness out of it then He gives it to us to possess. Jesus comes and provides salvation to our hearts and a new home-the Kingdom of God, thus we are strangers here now.

My understanding is that we are to abide here, for a time, tending to God's will-that ALL should come to Him (as many as will) showing firm in our faith, while the Holy Spirit 'drives' wickedness out of the hearts of people through the salvation of Christ. And, after all is said and done, this earth will be destroyed and God will give us a new one.

I am to be a good steward over that which I have been given by Him-my tiny apartment, my work, my money, my food, etc. All this serves two purposes through Him: 1) to provide sanctuary to those in need to reveal His goodness towards man 2) to drive wickedness out of the hearts of the lost through said provisions. Satan comes to kill, steal, and destroy. Jesus comes to give life and life abundantly.

Please be gentle with me-I'm just an 8 year old babe in Christ and haven't as much learning as I would like yet. I hope what I mean is understood.

I was going to ask this question of you, but I decided to just make it a statement;

It was GOD who bent your will to HIS in order for you to turn your life over to HIM in the first place.

There are a lot of posts here that follow the same basic theme. But it seems that the spiritual aspect, (principalities and powers) is left out.

There are three distinct wills at work in the world;

GOD's will

Satan's will

Man's will

They also have power in the order that they are listed, GOD is strongest, man is weakest. Satan is subtle and wise in his ways, cunning as it is said in Genesis.

Before the flood, GOD had created the world and then sort of sat back and let it run it's course. Without the intervention of GOD's will, man acted out his total depravity because of the power of the will of Satan. When it got to be too much, GOD put an end to it.

After the flood, GOD used HIS power and positon to hold Satan in check (a big part of the book of JOB) When the world once again reached a certain level of depravity, GOD separated a man from the rest of the world and raised a nation to HIMSELF from that man. In this way, GOD maintained a more active presence in the world. To this people HE made an unbreakable promise and that included JESUS.

Then, as HIS chosen people slipped away from HIM, (which HE knew would happen as it was part of the plan) HE allowed them to slide until the time when JESUS was come.

At that time, GOD did a great work and stepped in to make HIS relationship a personal one-on-one. HIS HOLY SPIRIT excercising HIS will in choosing for HIMSELF a people from every tribe and nation.

GOD knows that men will not surrender to HIM of their own will and that men, outside of the intervention of GOD, are captive to sin and Satan. Sin and Satan will not lead a man to GOD.

The point? If GOD does not intervene, Satan is the strongest influence on the will of a man. If GOD does intervene, then the will of a man will be changed to that which desires GOD. And people are saved.

One of the posts above points to the reallity that GOD takes extraordinary measures to bring HIS people to the point of surrender. Most Chritians have a damascus road experience.

GOD never fails to save any of HIS chosen people. As HE stated, "All that the FATHER has given me will come to me..."

So, why do we pray? I do not think we pray, as some believe, to change GOD's mind or to get HIM to do something HE was not already planning to do. I believe we pray so we give HIM the glory when what HE has had us pray about comes to pass. We learn, we are changed, our faith is made stronger. Stronger faith means a greater hedge of protection for us and those around us.