If God's will is to save all His people

[Guest shiloh357]

It is your credibility that I call to question. I just skimmed the whole thread and noticed that you never did address the initial questions I posed.

I have answered all of your questions.

You started out making malicious comments and innuendos about how and what others believed without really addressing what we really said by adding and misinterpreting.

Everything I said has been confirmed by the multitude of readers who also agree with my assessment of your grotesque, and unChristian "theology."

And consensus is very often opposed to God.

Standing against your nonsense which seeks to make God party to sin is not standing "against God." We are standing against what you teaching.

The truth I wanted to debate here is not whether God causes sin but did Jesus promise to do something and will He be disappointed if He does not accomplish it.

It is a logical impposibility to disappoint God. For God to be disappointed, it would imply He is not all-knowing. We are disappointed when certain circumstances don't turn out as we had hoped they would. But unlike us, God knows the end from the beginning and everything in between. He already knows who will or will not be saved, and on that basis, there is no possibility He will be disappointed.

[Ovedya]

archēgos consists of two words: archē, which means "origin or source," (The first in a series) and agō, which means "to take the lead."

Dave, you are only focusing on "origin or source" and ignoring "to take the lead." The usages of archēgos depend on their contexts. While the term can be given to mean "author, originator, source, first in a series, leader, captain, etc." The placement of the word in its respective context determines which application/definition is properly used.

Is Jesus Christ the source of our faith? I say that He is, because Jesus is the source of the entire new creation. True faith comes from God, and through Christ Jesus. Is Jesus Christ the "captain, the leader" of our salvation? Yes, He absolutely is. Jesus is the One who was incarnated as a man, who took on frail humanity, lived a perfect human life, died an all-inclusive and all-saving death, resurrected in an all-conquering resurrection, ascended to the throne of God where, having entered into the holiest of holies as our high priest, He was inaugurated, crowned with glory, to be the ruler of the heavens and the earth. Now today, Christ as our eternal high priest and King, is dispensing Himself into His believers to be their source of the eternal life; and as our "captain" He is also leading many sons into the same glory that He received.

[psalmone]

What immediately comes to mind is that we must continue in well doing and transforming by the renewing of our minds. We oughtn't to hope it'll all be over but rather yet rise to the high calling because faith will still please God even forever.

[larryt]

It is your credibility that I call to question. I just skimmed the whole thread and noticed that you never did address the initial questions I posed.

I have answered all of your questions.

You started out making malicious comments and innuendos about how and what others believed without really addressing what we really said by adding and misinterpreting.

Everything I said has been confirmed by the multitude of readers who also agree with my assessment of your grotesque, and unChristian "theology."

And consensus is very often opposed to God.

Standing against your nonsense which seeks to make God party to sin is not standing "against God." We are standing against what you teaching.

The truth I wanted to debate here is not whether God causes sin but did Jesus promise to do something and will He be disappointed if He does not accomplish it.

It is a logical impposibility to disappoint God. For God to be disappointed, it would imply He is not all-knowing. We are disappointed when certain circumstances don't turn out as we had hoped they would. But unlike us, God knows the end from the beginning and everything in between. He already knows who will or will not be saved, and on that basis, there is no possibility He will be disappointed.

I'm sorry but I don't find it anywhere in this thread. Your hijacking of this thread to your own purposes is not appreciated.

So here they are again and ask that you please reiterate your position so I know what it is that you are trying to say that I might give an answer.

Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Joh 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Joh 6:39 And this is the Father

[Guest shiloh357]

I'm sorry but I don't find it anywhere in this thread. Your hijacking of this thread to your own purposes is not appreciated.

I am not hijacking this thread.

So here they are again and ask that you please reiterate your position so I know what it is that you are trying to say that I might give an answer.

The answer is that God cannot be disappointed since God knows who will or will not be saved. That precludes God having to choose.

As for John 6, everyone who receives Christ, God places in Jesus' hand. Anyone who comes to Jesus, He will not cast out. Jesus places no qualifiers on this.

What John 6:37-39 does not say is that the only ones who come to Jesus are the ones God chose to come to Him.

1. All means all who accept Christ and obey the gospel

2. Well, it depends on whose persepective you are looking. God is timeless and since He already knows who will accept the gospel, then from his vantage point, they have already been placed in Jesus' hands. From the human persepctive, we are in Christ from the moment are saved.

3. I am not clear on what you mean by condition or absolute?

4 . He will not lose any one who comes to Him. Salvation is not us holding onto God but God holding onto us.

[larryt]

3. I am not clear on what you mean by condition or absolute?

Conditional or absolute. On conditions or absolutely/without conditions. As in a conditional covenant or unconditional covenant.

LT

[Guest shiloh357]

3. I am not clear on what you mean by condition or absolute?

Conditional or absolute. On conditions or absolutely/without conditions. As in a conditional covenant or unconditional covenant.

LT

The New Covenant is unconditional.

[larryt]

I'm sorry but I don't find it anywhere in this thread. Your hijacking of this thread to your own purposes is not appreciated.

I am not hijacking this thread.

So here they are again and ask that you please reiterate your position so I know what it is that you are trying to say that I might give an answer.

The answer is that God cannot be disappointed since God knows who will or will not be saved. That precludes God having to choose.

As for John 6, everyone who receives Christ, God places in Jesus' hand. Anyone who comes to Jesus, He will not cast out. Jesus places no qualifiers on this.

What John 6:37-39 does not say is that the only ones who come to Jesus are the ones God chose to come to Him.

1. All means all who accept Christ and obey the gospel

2. Well, it depends on whose persepective you are looking. God is timeless and since He already knows who will accept the gospel, then from his vantage point, they have already been placed in Jesus' hands. From the human persepctive, we are in Christ from the moment are saved.

3. I am not clear on what you mean by condition or absolute? The New Covenant is unconditional.

4 . He will not lose any one who comes to Him. Salvation is not us holding onto God but God holding onto us.

It is obvious to both of us that we do not agree on some points. I do want to understand where you are coming from so I can be precise in my answer to you, so please bear with me.

The answer to #1 is the crucial one as I see it. You stated:

1. All means all who accept Christ and obey the gospel

What I do not see by your answer is what is the basis of your answer. My only conclusion is that Those that the Father gave the Son were those that chose to believe in Him. So those that are given to Christ are those that the Father knew in His omniscience (not any originating love for them) that would in this time frame, and outside eternity, choose to believe in Christ.

I have tried to state what I understand you to be saying as precisely as I can. If I am wrong please restate so I can understand.

And thank you for your reply.

LT

[Guest shiloh357]

It is obvious to both of us that we do not agree on some points. I do want to understand where you are coming from so I can be precise in my answer to you, so please bear with me.

The answer to #1 is the crucial one as I see it. You stated:

1. All means all who accept Christ and obey the gospel

What I do not see by your answer is what is the basis of your answer. My only conclusion is that Those that the Father gave the Son were those that chose to believe in Him. So those that are given to Christ are those that the Father knew in His omniscience (not any originating love for them) that would in this time frame, and outside eternity, choose to believe in Christ.

It is really, really simple, Larry.

God knows the end from the beginning. He knew from the infinite eternal past who would or would not be saved. From that standpoint, choice is precluded as a possibility. There is nothing in the Bible that says God chooses who will or will not be saved. That is a doctrine that is penciled into the Bible and treated as true, but there is nothing in the Bible that says anyone Goes to hell because God did not choose them for eternal life.

From God's perspective, those whom He knew in eternity past would be saved already belonged to Christ. He had predetermined that they would be His eternally. The "prediestination" had nothing to do with choosing who would be saved, but rather, God's agenda for those whom he knew in eternity past would be saved. The ones God foreknew, he predestined to be conformed to the image of His son and He will bring that to fruition when they receive the fulness of their adoption (their redeemed bodies).

[Massorite]

Genesis 6:5 Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 The LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 The LORD said,