JESUS birth story

[kross]

I was e-mailed this question which I have never faced before. I gave an answer which amounted to saying what i thought would allow for the aparent discrepency, based in what I understand.

So, what do you understand?

Luke tells of the annunciation, Caesars Decree of a census sending Joseph and Mary to Bethlehem, the birth in the manger because of no room in the inn, the Shepherds being told of the birth by the angels. Then it says the child was circumcised on the 8th day, at at time of purification (33 days according to Lev. 12:2-6) Mary, Joseph and the child went to Jerusalem to offer the sacrifice for purification. They met Simeon and Anna there. Luke 2:39 "And when they had performed all things according to Law of the Lord, they returned to Galilee their own city Nazareth.

Matt 2: 8-13The wise men were sent to Bethlehem, came to the house where the young child and mother were, gave gifts, then returned to their home a different route because of being warned not to return to Herod.

Joseph was then told to take Mother & child and flee to Egypt until they are told king Herod is no longer a threat. This brings true prohesy "Out of Egypt have I called my son".

My question is how can Mary and Joseph go to Jerusalem about 33 days after Jesus' birth, do purification, meet Simeon, and Anna and return to Nazareth. Then also still be in Bethlehem when the child is about 2years old to meet the Wisemen and receive their gifts?

This one has pondered me for many years. Care to shed some light on it?

[Friarbob]

I am interested in the answer to this question myself.. I once asked my pastor about it and it even stumped him. Looking forward to see what answers you get.

[ColleenLovesMischief]

Matt 2

7 Then Herod, when he had secretly called the wise men, determined from them what time the star appeared. 8 And he sent them to Bethlehem and said,

[Leonard]

The Scripture is clear that He was born in Beth Lehem of Judah. Were you aware that there was also a Beth Lehem in Galilee?

This may muddy the waters a little.

Then again the passage does not specify HOW LONG after 'fulfilling all things according to the law,' they moved back to Galilee.

[ColleenLovesMischief]

The Scripture is clear that He was born in Beth Lehem of Judah. Were you aware that there was also a Beth Lehem in Galilee?

This may muddy the waters a little.

Then again the passage does not specify HOW LONG after 'fulfilling all things according to the law,' they moved back to Galilee.

Leave it to Lenoard to throw in another monkey wrench!!!!

[Guest]

The Scripture is clear that He was born in Beth Lehem of Judah. Were you aware that there was also a Beth Lehem in Galilee?

This may muddy the waters a little.

Brothers!

The City Of David

And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David: ) Luke 2:4

The City

For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. Luke 2:11

There Is Only One (I Think! )

[Guest shiloh357]

I was e-mailed this question which I have never faced before. I gave an answer which amounted to saying what i thought would allow for the aparent discrepency, based in what I understand.

So, what do you understand?

Luke tells of the annunciation, Caesars Decree of a census sending Joseph and Mary to Bethlehem, the birth in the manger because of no room in the inn, the Shepherds being told of the birth by the angels. Then it says the child was circumcised on the 8th day, at at time of purification (33 days according to Lev. 12:2-6) Mary, Joseph and the child went to Jerusalem to offer the sacrifice for purification. They met Simeon and Anna there. Luke 2:39 "And when they had performed all things according to Law of the Lord, they returned to Galilee their own city Nazareth.

Matt 2: 8-13The wise men were sent to Bethlehem, came to the house where the young child and mother were, gave gifts, then returned to their home a different route because of being warned not to return to Herod.

Joseph was then told to take Mother & child and flee to Egypt until they are told king Herod is no longer a threat. This brings true prohesy "Out of Egypt have I called my son".

My question is how can Mary and Joseph go to Jerusalem about 33 days after Jesus' birth, do purification, meet Simeon, and Anna and return to Nazareth. Then also still be in Bethlehem when the child is about 2years old to meet the Wisemen and receive their gifts?

This one has pondered me for many years. Care to shed some light on it?

The answer to the question is that it did not take the Wisemen two years to get from from Persia (Irag/Iran area) to Israel. That is a misunderstanding based on the assumption that Herod was told that the wisemen saw the start two years prior.

The entire birth narrative, from the time the angel announced Jesus birth to the purifification in the Temple took only 33 days.

The wisemen saw Jesus later, probably in the same week in a better place, most likely place they rented or borrowed until Mary recuperated from giving birth. Jesus was circumcised on the 8th day. They took flight into Egypt and returned after Herod was dead just in time for Jesus to be purified at the temple with in the prescribed 33 days according to the Law.

You cannot rely on the fact that Herod had all the babies killed two years old and younger as a means of determining how old Jesus was when the wisemen came to visit.

In ancient Israel in some pockets of Jewish culture today, a baby is already 1 year old at birth, since they held that life begins at conception. So, "two years old" back then was not like it is today. We don't begin counting until after the birth. So the idea that the wisemen did not see the start until Jesus was born and then set out on a two journey AFTER Jesus was born does not fit.

Also keep in mind that Herod was psychotic, and irrational. He had every baby killed two years old and younger in Bethelehem to insure that they new born king would be killed. You cannot use Herod as reliable indicator of when the wisemen first saw the star.

[kross]

I was e-mailed this question which I have never faced before. I gave an answer which amounted to saying what i thought would allow for the aparent discrepency, based in what I understand.

So, what do you understand?

Luke tells of the annunciation, Caesars Decree of a census sending Joseph and Mary to Bethlehem, the birth in the manger because of no room in the inn, the Shepherds being told of the birth by the angels. Then it says the child was circumcised on the 8th day, at at time of purification (33 days according to Lev. 12:2-6) Mary, Joseph and the child went to Jerusalem to offer the sacrifice for purification. They met Simeon and Anna there. Luke 2:39 "And when they had performed all things according to Law of the Lord, they returned to Galilee their own city Nazareth.

Matt 2: 8-13The wise men were sent to Bethlehem, came to the house where the young child and mother were, gave gifts, then returned to their home a different route because of being warned not to return to Herod.

Joseph was then told to take Mother & child and flee to Egypt until they are told king Herod is no longer a threat. This brings true prohesy "Out of Egypt have I called my son".

My question is how can Mary and Joseph go to Jerusalem about 33 days after Jesus' birth, do purification, meet Simeon, and Anna and return to Nazareth. Then also still be in Bethlehem when the child is about 2years old to meet the Wisemen and receive their gifts?

This one has pondered me for many years. Care to shed some light on it?

The answer to the question is that it did not take the Wisemen two years to get from from Persia (Irag/Iran area) to Israel. That is a misunderstanding based on the assumption that Herod was told that the wisemen saw the start two years prior.

The entire birth narrative, from the time the angel announced Jesus birth to the purifification in the Temple took only 33 days.

The wisemen saw Jesus later, probably in the same week in a better place, most likely place they rented or borrowed until Mary recuperated from giving birth. Jesus was circumcised on the 8th day. They took flight into Egypt and returned after Herod was dead just in time for Jesus to be purified at the temple with in the prescribed 33 days according to the Law.

You cannot rely on the fact that Herod had all the babies killed two years old and younger as a means of determining how old Jesus was when the wisemen came to visit.

In ancient Israel in some pockets of Jewish culture today, a baby is already 1 year old at birth, since they held that life begins at conception. So, "two years old" back then was not like it is today. We don't begin counting until after the birth. So the idea that the wisemen did not see the start until Jesus was born and then set out on a two journey AFTER Jesus was born does not fit.

Also keep in mind that Herod was psychotic, and irrational. He had every baby killed two years old and younger in Bethelehem to insure that they new born king would be killed. You cannot use Herod as reliable indicator of when the wisemen first saw the star.

Part of that understanding is from the greek word that is translated "Child" which is more accurately toddler as apposed to infant. They showed up at a house where there was a toddler.

[Guest shiloh357]

Part of that understanding is from the greek word that is translated "Child" which is more accurately toddler as apposed to infant. They showed up at a house where there was a toddler.

The dedication at the Temple is the problem, though. They had Jesus dedicated AFTER they returned from the flight from Egypt, which was AFTER the Wisemen appeared.

The Torah said that Jesus had to be presented at the Temple 30 days after he was born. Why would they have been two years and Jesus still not dedicated, AND why would they still be in Bethlehem two years AFTER He was born? Joseph was a tradesman and his job was back in Nazareth. It is doubtful they brought two years of wages with them.

As for the toddler reference. You need to remember that Koine Greek, like Hebrew, is a smaller language than English. This means that one word will have multiple usages. The same word depending on the context CAN mean toddler, but it is also used for newborn, infant, children of more advanced age as well. The same word is also used to refer to new Christians who are young in the faith.

So there is no hard and fast rule that says Jesus MUST be understood to be a "toddler" when the Wisemen appeard and further as I stated before, they did not count the years the same way we do today, which further damages the tradition that the wisemen did not arrive until two years AFTER Jesus birth.

[Guest shiloh357]

maybe I missed this part, but where does the Bible say Jesus was dedicated AFTER they returned from the flight from Egypt?

Luke 2:39 says after they had accomplished the dedication at the temple they returned to Nazareth. Yet when the wisemen visisted them they were in Bethlehem.

Herod in Matthew 2:7,8 sent the wisemen to Bethelehem (not Nazareth) since He had been informed that the child was to be born there. He planned to kill the child, but was going to let the wisemen do the scouting work for him.

In Matthew 2:16, Herod, after realizing he had been scammed by the wisemen sent a company of his soldiers into Bethelehem (not Nazareth) to kill Jesus.

If Jesus was visted by the wisemen two years after His birth why would they still be in Bethlehem and not Nazareth? Matthew 2:1 tell us that they appeared in Jerusalem when Jesus was born, not two after He was born.

The wisemen visit Jesus in Bethlehem, they leave and fail to inform Herod, Herod sends His soldiers to Bethlehem to kill Jesus. The angel warns Josepth and they flee to Egypt. When Herod is dead they return to Israel, dedicate Jesus at the Temple, and return to their home in Nazareth. All of that takes place within 30 days.