IS GOD's will done

[legoman]

In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: (Ephesians 1:11)

It does not mean that every that happens on the earth is after the counsel of His will. It means that God does everything according to the counsel of His will. It does not mean that God causes all things that happen in the earth to happen. That would make God responsible for sin and such an assertion is blasphemous.

Just wanted to comment on this verse (Eph 1:11).

YES, it does mean that God works ALL things after the counsel of his own will! That is what the verse says! What is the "counsel of His will"? Simply put it is God's plan.

It seems you are suggesting that only the things God does are done after the counsel of his will. True, that should be obvious.

But are there some things that are happening on the earth that are not part of his plan? I would suggest that such an assertion could be blasphemous.

Is God operating all?

1 Cor 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

Can anyone resist his will? NO.

Romans 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

Are all things really from God?

2 Cor 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

But how about God's plan? Did God really plan everything to happen this way?

Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure

What about the details? Surely God is not into every little detail?

Matthew 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father.

30 And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered.

But how does God know how many hairs are on our head? Its not because he sits around and counts them. Its because he planned every instance when one of them might fall out!

And of course God plans when we will meet our untimely end:

Job 14:5 Seeing his days are determined, the number of his months are with thee, thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass

And by implication, since God has planned when we will die, he has also planned how we will die. Think on that one for a few months...

Cheers,

Legoman

[legoman]

Satan sinned while HE was in heaven. So, if there is a difference, what is it?

This is what is scary.

According to what I have been told lately;

GOD intended this world to have no sin in it. Yet it does

HE intended Lucifer to be pure and holy and an angel of light, and he isn't

It is HIS absolute will that all men be saved, yet HE can't get it done.

These are the things I have been told. If this were true, which it is not, than I would find it hard to believe that HE could create an earth without sin in it if HIS first attempt failed so badly.

I have absolute faith in GOD. I believe that this world is exactly what GOD intended, Satan is exactly what HE intended, and HE will absolutely save all of those HE wants to save. Thus I have absolute faith HE will accomplish everything HE says HE will, because I see that HE has never failed to do so.

Amen

Let me add another amen.

If God did not intend for the world to be in the mess it is currently in, boy did God make a big mistake.

Whoops, I thought God was perfect... oh well I guess he'll probably get it right on the 2nd try right? Oh I know it was just our free will that screwed things up. But what about when we are in heaven, won't we still have free will? What if someone chooses to rebel when they are in heaven?

OR

God actually planned for people to go through the suffering and evil of this current earth. And he actually had a good reason for it. I leave it as an exercise to the reader to figure out what that reason would be... But rest assured we can have some comfort that God is in full control and will restore all at the appropriate time.

Cheers,

Legoman

[legoman]

Your OP asks is God's will done. You claim it is always done even if God has to cause man to do what is not In His Will. If God causes man to sin, then God's Will is NOT done on earth as it is in Heaven and you blaming God directly and attributing sin to God as well.

No rational person will accept that kind of argument.

James 1:13-14

13 Let no one say when he is tempted,

[legoman]

"I form the light, and create darkness. I make peace and create evil. I, the LORD do all these things."Isa 45:7

There are dozens of scriptures that say these types of things. If I post them, you will just ignor or rewrite them. So I just decided not to bother.

If you did your homework, you would know that God is not referring to moral evil (sin). He is referring to the calamity that comes from judgment. God is not the author of moral evil in any shape or form. God did not create murder, or anything that else that is sinful.I don't ignore or rewrite anything. I simply know hermeneutics and the original languages better than you. You are only trying to read your ghastly doctrines into the Bible.

i agree completely

In Isaiah 45:7, God makes peace and evil. The Hebrew word for evil is 'Ra'.

This is the same word used in describing "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil" ('Ra').

Its not the tree of knowledge of good and calamity.

Legoman

[larryt]

Your OP asks is God's will done. You claim it is always done even if God has to cause man to do what is not In His Will. If God causes man to sin, then God's Will is NOT done on earth as it is in Heaven and you blaming God directly and attributing sin to God as well.

No rational person will accept that kind of argument.

James 1:13-14

13 Let no one say when he is tempted,

[legoman]

Your OP asks is God's will done. You claim it is always done even if God has to cause man to do what is not In His Will. If God causes man to sin, then God's Will is NOT done on earth as it is in Heaven and you blaming God directly and attributing sin to God as well.

No rational person will accept that kind of argument.

James 1:13-14

13 Let no one say when he is tempted,

[Guest]

When Men Sin Just Who's Will Is Done?

The Will Of The Father... Nope!

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: James 1:13

The Will Of The Son... Nope!

But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. Galatians 2:17

The Will Of The Law... Nope!

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. Romans 7:7

The Will Of Men... Oh Oh!

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. James 1:14-15

>>>>>()<<<<<

God Is Pure

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. James 1:17

God Is Life

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: John 3:36(a)

And God Is Just

and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36(b)

Believe His Words

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already,

because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:18

[LIVN4JC]

Blessings and greetings to all. I stopped and looked up three of the words that was constantly used here. (will, free will, allow) The results are posted below. This post has really hit me hard. I was raped and horribly abused as a child for 6 horrible years. For so long I always wondered if this was by God's will. (see will below) Or was it just the evilness that was in the perpetrators heart at the time of their own free will. (see free will below) Was there some purpose for what happened? Did God create this sin with all the others? Was it by His will? What is the will of God? The questions just went on and on. At some point in my life I had to find a peace in me for all these answers. So I turned to the one I trust the most and that was the Lord Himself. Now I come across this post. Now I love the Lord with my whole being and I fail and sin a lot. But it is by my will that I do so. God's will is that we do not sin. But it is up to us to live by God's will. Do I believe it was the will of God as to what happened to me? No I do not. Do I believe He allowed it to happen? (see allowed below) Yes I do. For anyone to say that it is the will of God for evil and horrible things to happen is just wrong. For that means it was HIS desire, wish, choice,... etc... and that doesn't compute with the Lord of Love that I know. Now if one was to say HE allows things to happen I can accept and live with it. Did HE plan it NO not by any means. Did HE know it was going to happen yes for HE knows everything. Then they say then it had to be HIS WILL. Not necessarily. It isn't HIS will. What would of been HIS will would of been for the perpetrator not to have sinned. To turn away from the awful deed. That is where the will of God is. For man to use his God given free will for Gods good. But it did happen and the Lord will use it to His utmost glory. I praise Him for that. God wanted to make a perfect world for His children. Man made it imperfect by our own free will. God will bring glory to Himself out of it. Yes He is in control but that doesn't mean He created sin. You ask if God's will is done on earth as it is in Heaven. I can only answer it like this: If we live by His commands we are doing His will. If we love one another we are doing His will. If we bear witness for Jesus we are doing His will. If we harm anyone in any way we ARE NOT DOING HIS WILL. If we break His commandments WE ARE NOT DOING HIS WILL. I could go on and on. No I won't post scripture here at this time. So many have been posted already and they stand. Everyone puts their own take on them. I will say this though... my heart grew heavy with some posts that I read. Some were not so nice and that is heart breaking. I don't wish to belittle, name call, or hurt anyone. I know debates can get heated up. But Jesus didn't get to the point of saying hurtful things. He debated with love and truth. I pray we all will live by His example. My prayers and thoughts are with all. Blessings to you my brothers and sisters in Christ.

In His Hands of Love,

Anne (MeMa)

Main Entry: will

Pronunciation: \wil\

Function: noun

Etymology: Middle English, from Old English willa will, desire; akin to Old English wille

Date: before 12th century

1: desire , wish : as a: disposition , inclination <where there's a will there's a way> b: appetite , passion c: choice , determination

2 a: something desired ; especially : a choice or determination of one having authority or power b (1)archaic : request , command (2) [from the phrase our will is which introduces it] : the part of a summons expressing a royal command

3: the act, process, or experience of willing : volition

4 a: mental powers manifested as wishing, choosing, desiring, or intending b: a disposition to act according to principles or ends c: the collective desire of a group <the will of the people>

5: the power of control over one's own actions or emotions <a man of iron will>

Main Entry: free will

Function: noun

Date: 13th century

1 : voluntary choice or decision <I do this of my own free will>

2 : freedom of humans to make choices that are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention

Main Entry: al

[Guest shiloh357]

"I form the light, and create darkness. I make peace and create evil. I, the LORD do all these things."Isa 45:7

There are dozens of scriptures that say these types of things. If I post them, you will just ignor or rewrite them. So I just decided not to bother.

If you did your homework, you would know that God is not referring to moral evil (sin). He is referring to the calamity that comes from judgment. God is not the author of moral evil in any shape or form. God did not create murder, or anything that else that is sinful.I don't ignore or rewrite anything. I simply know hermeneutics and the original languages better than you. You are only trying to read your ghastly doctrines into the Bible.

i agree completely

In Isaiah 45:7, God makes peace and evil. The Hebrew word for evil is 'Ra'.

This is the same word used in describing "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil" ('Ra').

Its not the tree of knowledge of good and calamity.

Legoman

Sorry, but it is obvious you don't know Hebrew. The use of the term "ra" within the context and line of thought of the passage defies it being used to refer to moral evil or sin. Furthermore this is further evidence as it is being juxtaposed against the word "peace." This does according to every capable and competent Hebrew scholar, refer to physical calamaty that results from God's judgement and the various forms that judgment takes. It does not ascribe moral evil or sin to God in any shape.

Yes, agreed. There is a purpose and plan for everything. Even the bad stuff. And the beautiful part is its a good purpose...

Legoman

So, do you, like Kross believe that if a man brutalizes and murders a young child that God is "okay" with it and probably wanted it happen?

We are to give thanks to God for giving us the trials and tribulations because ALL THINGS WORK TOGETHER FOR GOOD TO THEM THAT LOVE GOD, TO THEM THAT ARE THE CALLED ACCORDING TO HIS PURPOSE.

Ro 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.

LT

This is perhaps the most grotesque use of this passage I have ever seen. This does not mean that causes sin or intends for sin to occur in order to fulfill His purpose.

Secondly, the "purpose" in this passasge refers to conforming us into the image of Christ, and there is nothing in sin that is useful to that end. The "all things" also needs to be understood, therefore, as they relate to the purpose or goal of our being conformed into Christ's image. The "all things" refer to what was previously mentioned in the chapter:

1. His Righteousness fulfilling the law in us. 8:1-4

2. His indewlling Spirit. 8:5-13

3. Our Eternal Heirchip 8: 14-25

4. The Holy Spirit's intercession for us 8:26-27

Those things lead to our assurance of God's eternal purpose which is to conform us into the image of Christ. It is or assurance in the midst of distress that He is still working His purpose out in our lives inspite of the circumstances. It is NOT saying that God uses even sin to conform us to His image. Any suggestion that God has worked sin into plan and purpopse is a flagrant assault on God's character.

[Guest shiloh357]

I have absolute faith in GOD. I believe that this world is exactly what GOD intended, Satan is exactly what HE intended, and HE will absolutely save all of those HE wants to save. Thus I have absolute faith HE will accomplish everything HE says HE will, because I see that HE has never failed to do so.

If you consider this demonic, than I have to tell you that not believing it is demonic humanism.

100% agree with you here kross. (Just giving you some support from the peanut gallery ).

God is in complete control. Everything is going according to God's plan. God is 100% sovereign and man's "free will" won't get in the way...

1 Cor 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will

Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

For those that don't believe God intended evil to happen or would even cause evil to happen:

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?

Isa 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

God's will ultimately will be done.

Romans 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

I fully believe everything in this world is going as God intended it.

And you are just as theologically misguided as Kross. God did not decree or intend sin and for you to say so shows a grave misunderstanding of the sovereignty and holiness of God. God does not create moral evil nor does he intend for it to occur.

The Bible presents a God calling His people out of sin, saving them out of sin, teaching them not to sin. Why would God send prophets and apostles and equip the Body of Christ to flee sin if sin is what He intended, purposed and planned for? Why do we not find Jesus engaging in sinful practices? Jesus is revelation of the Father and yet nowhere in the life of Jesus do we find Him working in concert with sin or sinful people, rather we hear Jesus say, "go and sin no more."

The Bible shows a God who hates sin, who cannot look upon sin, who redeems man from sin's bondage and who will fully and finally eradicate sin in the world. There is nothing in the Bible that suggests that God is cooperation or concert with sin in order to fulfill His Will.

As for Eph 1:11, that does not mean that sin is part of what God works to fulfill His Will. It simply means that everything God does is according the the counsel of His will. There is no sense in which Paul meant that sin is part of the plan and purpose of God.