The "confusing of the languages"...

[Christian]

In a conversation with a Christian friend recently regarding the "confusing of languages" talked about in the Babel story, I was asked a fair enough question in regard to the matter that actually didn't have a "scriptural", verse specific response to.

Of course speculation about the Lord's intention is very easy here...Genesis 11:1-9 And the whole earth was of one language and of one speech. (2) And it came to pass, as they journeyed east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there. (3) And they said one to another, Come, let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for mortar. (4) And they said, Come, let us build us a city, and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven, and let us make us a name; lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth. (5) And Jehovah came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. (6) And Jehovah said, Behold, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is what they begin to do: and now nothing will be withholden from them, which they purpose to do. (7) Come, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. (8) So Jehovah scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off building the city. (9) Therefore was the name of it called Babel; because Jehovah did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did Jehovah scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

...the "intention" of the people doesn't seem to state any other ambition than to have their tower reach unto heaven. They make no claim to want to be God, or like gods, only that they want to make a name for themselves.

Unlike Satan's desire spoken of in... Isaiah 14:13-14 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: (14) I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. ...there is no similar claim made by those building the tower.

My friends question was that if God's desire was a united people to worship Him, why take this construction as threatening enough to divide them and cast them asunder? As many times as I have read these passages in my life, I just always assumed that a "Satan like" ambition was at the root of God's decision. Seeing that that is not what's stated made me curious also.

So am I missing something here?

Blessings,

His faithful servant,

Christian

[Rest is a weapon]

I think you are still on the right track with the assumption that a satan like aspiration was behind the building of the tower. I think the hints are there to point out how this is. The people are all working together and that unity shows it's power with the advances of firing bricks for strength and God himself saying that under these conditions of unity there is no limit to what they could do. So God's confusing language was a strategy to slow this unity, operating in a fallen sinful being, down. The subsequent formation of countries that mostly compete with each other in technologies; has shown how that strategy has worked to slow down what may have put us in exactly the same place as Satan, who in his pride aspired to be God himself. If we'd been allowed to get there, would we not have met the same fate Satan has?

[Hunterpoet]

The builders are the " children of men ", meaning those who have degenerated from the piety of their ancestors. The building of the tower is to further separate and distinguish themselves, as if to state, see what we have done without the help of G-d, are we not stronger.

If these non pious people were permitted to continue, they would then be able to achieve all their ungodly desires.

We see this now. Especially of late. Special interest groups continue to try and force their ungodly desires upon us, they try and convince the world that there is no need for G-d, that they ( humans) control their own destiny.

I remember seeing a movie about this and after the tower was finished they shot an arrow towards heaven, I cannot find this in scripture, but I think it emphasizes the disdain these people had towards G-d, again, not unlike some today.

[Leonard]

The ancient Rabbis of blessed memory said, almost una voce that this 'reaching' into heaven indicates the tower was to be high enough to do away with city light pollution and allow astrology to be studied more easily and with greater precision. It was in effect a university of astrology.

Connected to it may have been all other kinds of occult practices. In the short verses we have, much may be included in the little word 'reach.'

[Massorite]

In a conversation with a Christian friend recently regarding the "confusing of languages" talked about in the Babel story, I was asked a fair enough question in regard to the matter that actually didn't have a "scriptural", verse specific response to.

Of course speculation about the Lord's intention is very easy here...Genesis 11:1-9 And the whole earth was of one language and of one speech. (2) And it came to pass, as they journeyed east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there. (3) And they said one to another, Come, let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for mortar. (4) And they said, Come, let us build us a city, and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven, and let us make us a name; lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth. (5) And Jehovah came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. (6) And Jehovah said, Behold, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is what they begin to do: and now nothing will be withholden from them, which they purpose to do. (7) Come, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. (8) So Jehovah scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off building the city. (9) Therefore was the name of it called Babel; because Jehovah did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did Jehovah scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

...the "intention" of the people doesn't seem to state any other ambition than to have their tower reach unto heaven. They make no claim to want to be God, or like gods, only that they want to make a name for themselves.

Unlike Satan's desire spoken of in... Isaiah 14:13-14 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: (14) I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. ...there is no similar claim made by those building the tower.

My friends question was that if God's desire was a united people to worship Him, why take this construction as threatening enough to divide them and cast them asunder? As many times as I have read these passages in my life, I just always assumed that a "Satan like" ambition was at the root of God's decision. Seeing that that is not what's stated made me curious also.

So am I missing something here?

Blessings,

His faithful servant,

Christian

Perhaps you are missing the fact that satan is not always at the root of the rebellion of men against God but rather men are. And God simply reacts to that rebellion.

[Axxman]

A lot is explained when you realize that Babel was the first city built by Nimrod...the founder of idolatrous false religions like humanism. It is completely false that these people were building a tower to be closer to God. Look at their words..."Come, let us build us a city, and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven, and let us make us a name;"

Excert from James Montgomery Boice "Notes on Nimrod and Babel"..."The account of the building of Babylon begins by saying that the world had one common language (as would be expected due to the people's common descent from Noah) and since part of the world's people moved eastward, some settled on the plain of Shinar or Babylonia. So far, so good. God had told the descendants of Noah to "increase in number and fill the earth" (Gen. 9:1), a reiteration of the command originally given to Adam and Eve in Paradise (Gen. 1:28). The settlement of Shinar could be construed as a partial fulfillment of that command. Yet as we read we find that the goal of this particular settlement was not to fulfill God's command but to defy it. From the beginning, Babylon's goal was to resist any further scattering of the peoples over the earth and instead to create a city where the achievements of a united and integrated people would be centralized.

The Bible reports this desire as an invitation to "come" together to work on this great project. It is the first important "come" of the story. "They said to each other, 'Come, let's make bricks and bake them thoroughly.' They used brick instead of stone, and tar instead of mortar. Then they said, 'Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves and not be scattered over the face of the whole earth"' (Gen. 3,4).

Three things are involved in this invitation: 1) a vision for the city, 2) a desire for a name or reputation, and 3) a plan for a new religion. The plan for a city does not need to be examined at length; we have already discussed it in our study of Nimrod. The important point is that it was not God's city, as Jerusalem was. It was man's city, the secular city. As such it was constructed man for man's glory. The last of these desires--to construct a place for man's glory--is involved in the word "name": Come, let us...make a name for ourselves and not be scattered over the face of the whole earth." It was the desire for reputation but, more than that, also a desire for independence from God. This reputation was to be earned by man apart from God. It was to be his alone.

We cannot forget that one characteristic of the God of the Bible is that He names people. He gives them names symbolic of what He is going to do with them or make of them. God named Adam (Gen. 5:2), Abraham (Gen. 17:5), Israel (Gen. 32:28), even Jesus (Matt. 1:21). In each case, the names point to what God has done or will yet do. The people of Babylon wanted none of this. They wanted to establish their own reputation and eliminate God entirely."

[Matthitjah]

A lot is explained when you realize that Babel was the first city built by Nimrod...the founder of idolatrous false religions like humanism. It is completely false that these people were building a tower to be closer to God. Look at their words..."Come, let us build us a city, and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven, and let us make us a name;"

Excert from James Montgomery Boice "Notes on Nimrod and Babel"..."The account of the building of Babylon begins by saying that the world had one common language (as would be expected due to the people's common descent from Noah) and since part of the world's people moved eastward, some settled on the plain of Shinar or Babylonia. So far, so good. God had told the descendants of Noah to "increase in number and fill the earth" (Gen. 9:1), a reiteration of the command originally given to Adam and Eve in Paradise (Gen. 1:28). The settlement of Shinar could be construed as a partial fulfillment of that command. Yet as we read we find that the goal of this particular settlement was not to fulfill God's command but to defy it. From the beginning, Babylon's goal was to resist any further scattering of the peoples over the earth and instead to create a city where the achievements of a united and integrated people would be centralized.

The Bible reports this desire as an invitation to "come" together to work on this great project. It is the first important "come" of the story. "They said to each other, 'Come, let's make bricks and bake them thoroughly.' They used brick instead of stone, and tar instead of mortar. Then they said, 'Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves and not be scattered over the face of the whole earth"' (Gen. 3,4).

Three things are involved in this invitation: 1) a vision for the city, 2) a desire for a name or reputation, and 3) a plan for a new religion. The plan for a city does not need to be examined at length; we have already discussed it in our study of Nimrod. The important point is that it was not God's city, as Jerusalem was. It was man's city, the secular city. As such it was constructed man for man's glory. The last of these desires--to construct a place for man's glory--is involved in the word "name": Come, let us...make a name for ourselves and not be scattered over the face of the whole earth." It was the desire for reputation but, more than that, also a desire for independence from God. This reputation was to be earned by man apart from God. It was to be his alone.

We cannot forget that one characteristic of the God of the Bible is that He names people. He gives them names symbolic of what He is going to do with them or make of them. God named Adam (Gen. 5:2), Abraham (Gen. 17:5), Israel (Gen. 32:28), even Jesus (Matt. 1:21). In each case, the names point to what God has done or will yet do. The people of Babylon wanted none of this. They wanted to establish their own reputation and eliminate God entirely."

Amen Axxman.

They didn't have Gods will in mind, they had the will of man in mind. They were building up the world and not the Kingdom.

Peace,

Dave

[Massorite]

A lot is explained when you realize that Babel was the first city built by Nimrod...the founder of idolatrous false religions like humanism. It is completely false that these people were building a tower to be closer to God. Look at their words..."Come, let us build us a city, and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven, and let us make us a name;"

Excert from James Montgomery Boice "Notes on Nimrod and Babel"..."The account of the building of Babylon begins by saying that the world had one common language (as would be expected due to the people's common descent from Noah) and since part of the world's people moved eastward, some settled on the plain of Shinar or Babylonia. So far, so good. God had told the descendants of Noah to "increase in number and fill the earth" (Gen. 9:1), a reiteration of the command originally given to Adam and Eve in Paradise (Gen. 1:28). The settlement of Shinar could be construed as a partial fulfillment of that command. Yet as we read we find that the goal of this particular settlement was not to fulfill God's command but to defy it. From the beginning, Babylon's goal was to resist any further scattering of the peoples over the earth and instead to create a city where the achievements of a united and integrated people would be centralized.

The Bible reports this desire as an invitation to "come" together to work on this great project. It is the first important "come" of the story. "They said to each other, 'Come, let's make bricks and bake them thoroughly.' They used brick instead of stone, and tar instead of mortar. Then they said, 'Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves and not be scattered over the face of the whole earth"' (Gen. 3,4).

Three things are involved in this invitation: 1) a vision for the city, 2) a desire for a name or reputation, and 3) a plan for a new religion. The plan for a city does not need to be examined at length; we have already discussed it in our study of Nimrod. The important point is that it was not God's city, as Jerusalem was. It was man's city, the secular city. As such it was constructed man for man's glory. The last of these desires--to construct a place for man's glory--is involved in the word "name": Come, let us...make a name for ourselves and not be scattered over the face of the whole earth." It was the desire for reputation but, more than that, also a desire for independence from God. This reputation was to be earned by man apart from God. It was to be his alone.

We cannot forget that one characteristic of the God of the Bible is that He names people. He gives them names symbolic of what He is going to do with them or make of them. God named Adam (Gen. 5:2), Abraham (Gen. 17:5), Israel (Gen. 32:28), even Jesus (Matt. 1:21). In each case, the names point to what God has done or will yet do. The people of Babylon wanted none of this. They wanted to establish their own reputation and eliminate God entirely."

Amen Axxman.

They didn't have Gods will in mind, they had the will of man in mind. They were building up the world and not the Kingdom.

Peace,

Dave

I agree. The whole of their focus was pride filled. All about them and none about God.

[Christian]

To all who replied, thank you for your responses

I am in agreement with you on the jist of what we are all saying here, but there doesn't seem to be any "definite, specific verses" which state what we are stating? Instead, our extraneous information and knowledge of the situation seems to be dictating what we profess here...no?

in Christ,

-C-

[Guest shiloh357]

To all who replied, thank you for your responses

I am in agreement with you on the jist of what we are all saying here, but there doesn't seem to be any "definite, specific verses" which state what we are stating? Instead, our extraneous information and knowledge of the situation seems to be dictating what we profess here...no?

in Christ,

-C-

Look at the verses cited:

Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves and not be scattered over the face of the whole earth" (Gen. 11:3,4)

This was not about worshipping God. So God was not contradicting His desire for man to be united in worship of Him. In their very words, according to the commentary above, it is very easy to see that this tower was for man's benefit, not God's and had nothing to do with glorifying Him. Their goal was humanistic in nature.