Heaven?

[kross]

Often children are told that when you die, you go to Heaven. My whole life I believed that as well, That if I put my faith and trust in Jesus I would go to Heaven, and if any one rejects Christ, they would go to Hell.

I know when Jesus comes for the second time, we will be his people and he will be with us again once and for all , but where?

First of all don't just take my word for it but look for it your self because there is not one single scripture in all of the bible that says that when we die we will go to heaven. The bible says that when we die our flesh turns back to the dust it was made from and our spirit (that is the breath of life) goes back to God who gave it. But the bible says nothing about our souls and where they will be going.

There are many who teach and even my Pastor just this Sunday stated that the bible says "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord' But that is mis-leading and not at all biblical.

2 Corinthians 5:8 say "We are confident, Isay, and WILLING RATHER TO BE ABSENT from the body, AND to be present with the Lord". This verse is saying that we WOULD RATHER be absent from the body and present with the Lord. This verse DOESN'T say that "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord".

Heaven is the abode (dwelling place) of God and no one is ever going to spend eternity in heaven. We will be going to heaven but only for a brief period of time.

When Jesus comes back He will pick us (His Bride) up and present us to His father as an acceptable gift. We will be standing before the throne of God when this is done. Next we will partake in the wedding supper and when we are finished we will be coming back down to earth to spend eternity on a new earth and in a new Jerusalem with 300 hundred foot tall walls.

However, although I am sure there can be another understanding, if 2Cor 5:8 is placed with Phil 1:23 "For I am in a strait between two, having a desire to depart, and to be with CHRIST; which is far better;" which Paul stated after "to live is CHRIST, but to die is gain".

Paul teaches that when we die, we leave these earthly tents and are with CHRIST. We know the spirit that is alive in us is GOD's spirit and it will return to HIM., we also see that we ourselves will go to where CHRIST is, and that would be our souls.

So where in this verse does Paul say "when we die we will go to where Christ is"? I don't see that anywhere in the verses you have quoted here. What I do see is Paul telling us that he and ourselves would rather be with Christ then to be in our bodies here on earth. If we go to where Christ is when we die then why does He need to come and get those who are already in the grave. If we were already with Christ there would be no need for us to resurrect from our graves and Christ would only be coming back for the living in Christ because the dead in Christ would already be with Him. The word DESIRE in Phil 1:23 is speaking about just what it is. A desire or longing or want but not a physical or tangible fact.

"to depart, and to be with CHRIST" as far as I am concerned, "and to be with CHRIST" ties them together.

[Massorite]

Often children are told that when you die, you go to Heaven. My whole life I believed that as well, That if I put my faith and trust in Jesus I would go to Heaven, and if any one rejects Christ, they would go to Hell.

I know when Jesus comes for the second time, we will be his people and he will be with us again once and for all , but where?

First of all don't just take my word for it but look for it your self because there is not one single scripture in all of the bible that says that when we die we will go to heaven. The bible says that when we die our flesh turns back to the dust it was made from and our spirit (that is the breath of life) goes back to God who gave it. But the bible says nothing about our souls and where they will be going.

There are many who teach and even my Pastor just this Sunday stated that the bible says "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord' But that is mis-leading and not at all biblical.

2 Corinthians 5:8 say "We are confident, Isay, and WILLING RATHER TO BE ABSENT from the body, AND to be present with the Lord". This verse is saying that we WOULD RATHER be absent from the body and present with the Lord. This verse DOESN'T say that "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord".

Heaven is the abode (dwelling place) of God and no one is ever going to spend eternity in heaven. We will be going to heaven but only for a brief period of time.

When Jesus comes back He will pick us (His Bride) up and present us to His father as an acceptable gift. We will be standing before the throne of God when this is done. Next we will partake in the wedding supper and when we are finished we will be coming back down to earth to spend eternity on a new earth and in a new Jerusalem with 300 hundred foot tall walls.

However, although I am sure there can be another understanding, if 2Cor 5:8 is placed with Phil 1:23 "For I am in a strait between two, having a desire to depart, and to be with CHRIST; which is far better;" which Paul stated after "to live is CHRIST, but to die is gain".

Paul teaches that when we die, we leave these earthly tents and are with CHRIST. We know the spirit that is alive in us is GOD's spirit and it will return to HIM., we also see that we ourselves will go to where CHRIST is, and that would be our souls.

So where in this verse does Paul say "when we die we will go to where Christ is"? I don't see that anywhere in the verses you have quoted here. What I do see is Paul telling us that he and ourselves would rather be with Christ then to be in our bodies here on earth. If we go to where Christ is when we die then why does He need to come and get those who are already in the grave. If we were already with Christ there would be no need for us to resurrect from our graves and Christ would only be coming back for the living in Christ because the dead in Christ would already be with Him. The word DESIRE in Phil 1:23 is speaking about just what it is. A desire or longing or want but not a physical or tangible fact.

"to depart, and to be with CHRIST" as far as I am concerned, "and to be with CHRIST" ties them together.

Your still missing the words "Willingly Rather". I mean they are part of the verse in question. Right? How can you just egnore them? The words "willingly rather" are talking about what we might want. Not what is. How we would rather be with Christ then here on earth. Not what is.

[Ddavid from NC]

Heaven is being in the presence of the Lord. The future eternal abode will be in the New Jerusalem, which is yet to be in existence. It in fact will come down to earth after it is cleansed with fire.

[kross]

Often children are told that when you die, you go to Heaven. My whole life I believed that as well, That if I put my faith and trust in Jesus I would go to Heaven, and if any one rejects Christ, they would go to Hell.

I know when Jesus comes for the second time, we will be his people and he will be with us again once and for all , but where?

First of all don't just take my word for it but look for it your self because there is not one single scripture in all of the bible that says that when we die we will go to heaven. The bible says that when we die our flesh turns back to the dust it was made from and our spirit (that is the breath of life) goes back to God who gave it. But the bible says nothing about our souls and where they will be going.

There are many who teach and even my Pastor just this Sunday stated that the bible says "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord' But that is mis-leading and not at all biblical.

2 Corinthians 5:8 say "We are confident, Isay, and WILLING RATHER TO BE ABSENT from the body, AND to be present with the Lord". This verse is saying that we WOULD RATHER be absent from the body and present with the Lord. This verse DOESN'T say that "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord".

Heaven is the abode (dwelling place) of God and no one is ever going to spend eternity in heaven. We will be going to heaven but only for a brief period of time.

When Jesus comes back He will pick us (His Bride) up and present us to His father as an acceptable gift. We will be standing before the throne of God when this is done. Next we will partake in the wedding supper and when we are finished we will be coming back down to earth to spend eternity on a new earth and in a new Jerusalem with 300 hundred foot tall walls.

However, although I am sure there can be another understanding, if 2Cor 5:8 is placed with Phil 1:23 "For I am in a strait between two, having a desire to depart, and to be with CHRIST; which is far better;" which Paul stated after "to live is CHRIST, but to die is gain".

Paul teaches that when we die, we leave these earthly tents and are with CHRIST. We know the spirit that is alive in us is GOD's spirit and it will return to HIM., we also see that we ourselves will go to where CHRIST is, and that would be our souls.

So where in this verse does Paul say "when we die we will go to where Christ is"? I don't see that anywhere in the verses you have quoted here. What I do see is Paul telling us that he and ourselves would rather be with Christ then to be in our bodies here on earth. If we go to where Christ is when we die then why does He need to come and get those who are already in the grave. If we were already with Christ there would be no need for us to resurrect from our graves and Christ would only be coming back for the living in Christ because the dead in Christ would already be with Him. The word DESIRE in Phil 1:23 is speaking about just what it is. A desire or longing or want but not a physical or tangible fact.

"to depart, and to be with CHRIST" as far as I am concerned, "and to be with CHRIST" ties them together.

Your still missing the words "Willingly Rather". I mean they are part of the verse in question. Right? How can you just egnore them? The words "willingly rather" are talking about what we might want. Not what is. How we would rather be with Christ then here on earth. Not what is.

The fact that Paul is saying he is torn between the two, "in a strait" tells me that he is not speaking of something that he doesn't believe is there.

HAving a desire to depart and be with CHRIST which is far better. It doesn't say would be far better and it would be strange for me to believe Paul was having a discussion about something he did not see as true. I read these scriptures and the ones around them ( in context) and I see Paul discussing his struggle with departing and being with CHRIST, which is far better, or staying here to bear more fruit. I can not read them any other way.

But, like every little point of doctrin, there is always someone who can read them some other way. So we will disagree. Both points of view are posted here and the reader can read and pray and figure it out for themselves.

[OneLight]

Let's look at the New Testament Greek Lexicon for an explanation of these words ...

2 Corinthians 5:8

(New American Standard Bible)

we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.

(King James Version)

We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

perfer/willing:

Strong's Number: 2106

Eudokeo

1. it seems good to one, is one's good pleasure

1. think it good, choose, determine, decide

2. to do willingly

3. to be ready to, to prefer, choose rather

2. to be well pleased with, take pleasure in, to be favourably inclined towards one

rather:

Strong's Number: 3123

Mallon

1. more, to a greater degree, rather

1. much, by far

2. rather, sooner

3. more willingly, more readily, sooner

home/present:

Strong's Number: 1736

Endemeo

1. to be among one's own people, dwell in one's own country, stay at home

[Massorite]

Often children are told that when you die, you go to Heaven. My whole life I believed that as well, That if I put my faith and trust in Jesus I would go to Heaven, and if any one rejects Christ, they would go to Hell.

I know when Jesus comes for the second time, we will be his people and he will be with us again once and for all , but where?

First of all don't just take my word for it but look for it your self because there is not one single scripture in all of the bible that says that when we die we will go to heaven. The bible says that when we die our flesh turns back to the dust it was made from and our spirit (that is the breath of life) goes back to God who gave it. But the bible says nothing about our souls and where they will be going.

There are many who teach and even my Pastor just this Sunday stated that the bible says "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord' But that is mis-leading and not at all biblical.

2 Corinthians 5:8 say "We are confident, Isay, and WILLING RATHER TO BE ABSENT from the body, AND to be present with the Lord". This verse is saying that we WOULD RATHER be absent from the body and present with the Lord. This verse DOESN'T say that "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord".

Heaven is the abode (dwelling place) of God and no one is ever going to spend eternity in heaven. We will be going to heaven but only for a brief period of time.

When Jesus comes back He will pick us (His Bride) up and present us to His father as an acceptable gift. We will be standing before the throne of God when this is done. Next we will partake in the wedding supper and when we are finished we will be coming back down to earth to spend eternity on a new earth and in a new Jerusalem with 300 hundred foot tall walls.

However, although I am sure there can be another understanding, if 2Cor 5:8 is placed with Phil 1:23 "For I am in a strait between two, having a desire to depart, and to be with CHRIST; which is far better;" which Paul stated after "to live is CHRIST, but to die is gain".

Paul teaches that when we die, we leave these earthly tents and are with CHRIST. We know the spirit that is alive in us is GOD's spirit and it will return to HIM., we also see that we ourselves will go to where CHRIST is, and that would be our souls.

So where in this verse does Paul say "when we die we will go to where Christ is"? I don't see that anywhere in the verses you have quoted here. What I do see is Paul telling us that he and ourselves would rather be with Christ then to be in our bodies here on earth. If we go to where Christ is when we die then why does He need to come and get those who are already in the grave. If we were already with Christ there would be no need for us to resurrect from our graves and Christ would only be coming back for the living in Christ because the dead in Christ would already be with Him. The word DESIRE in Phil 1:23 is speaking about just what it is. A desire or longing or want but not a physical or tangible fact.

"to depart, and to be with CHRIST" as far as I am concerned, "and to be with CHRIST" ties them together.

Your still missing the words "Willingly Rather". I mean they are part of the verse in question. Right? How can you just egnore them? The words "willingly rather" are talking about what we might want. Not what is. How we would rather be with Christ then here on earth. Not what is.

The fact that Paul is saying he is torn between the two, "in a strait" tells me that he is not speaking of something that he doesn't believe is there.

HAving a desire to depart and be with CHRIST which is far better. It doesn't say would be far better and it would be strange for me to believe Paul was having a discussion about something he did not see as true. I read these scriptures and the ones around them ( in context) and I see Paul discussing his struggle with departing and being with CHRIST, which is far better, or staying here to bear more fruit. I can not read them any other way.

But, like every little point of doctrin, there is always someone who can read them some other way. So we will disagree. Both points of view are posted here and the reader can read and pray and figure it out for themselves.

As you wish.

[Massorite]

for what it's worth--

literal translation of II Cor 5:8 according to Interlinear Greek-English New Testament, Jay P. Green, Sr., ed:

"even we are fully assured, and think it good rather to go away from home out of the body, and to come home to the Lord"

when looking at passage meanings, we must needs look not only at word meanings, but also the grammar used. strong's 1736 is the root word. the ending of the word in this passage means it is aortist, active, infinitive. that makes a difference on how you translate the word and what other words you put with it.

if mr. Green is correct in his literal translation (which i believe he is), this verse is indeed saying that when we go out of the body, we come home to the Lord.

Holy Moly. Another person with a Jay P Green Interinear Bible.

So how do you explain away the word "think". That is a thought process. Not an action out side of the mind. The same thing goes for the words "willingly rather".

How can you turn "think it good rather to" into something tangable when we can not see thoughts. Even the Jay P Green bible says that "we think that we would rather be out of our body and to go home to be with Jesus".

I would much rather be out of my body and with Jesus then to be in my body fighting the daily fight against the sinful desires of the flesh.