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Sevenseas, the entire notion of praying in tongues is a myth built on ONE verse. There is no teaching on that subject. It is simply written into the Bible and assumed to be true. If there were a teaching on it, it would be different. Praying in tongues is not a myth. I understand you do not believe the spiritual gifts are still active and therefore you say that speaking in tongues is a myth. I Cor. distinctly uses the phrase PRAYING IN TONGUES and your response is simply to dismiss this fact. The chapter is comparing the gift of prophecy and the gift of speaking in tongues (V 2-5) as follows: Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy. 2For anyone who speaks in a tongueadoes not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit. 3But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort. 4Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church. 5I would like every one of you to speak in tongues,b but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues,c unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified. Here, we clearly see that people do speak in tongues to God, without interpretation and not as a sign to unbelievers. Speaking to God in tongues is not a sign to unbelievers. You indicate that tongues are only a sign for unbelievers but the Bible says something very different from what you state Paul says he would like everyone he is writing to, to speak in tongues. Should everyone start speaking in tongues in church with no interpretation? Well, that would seem to go against doing everything decently and in order and allowing people to speak one at a time...3 at the most. Speaking in tongues...that is when alone and worshipping or singing apparently edifies the one employing that gift through the endowment of the Holy Spirit. Its the most natural thing when a person is filled with the Holy Spirit ..and again do not confuse this with being sealed by the Holy Spirit when one is born again. So Paul actually puts a great value on the personal use of tongues. V 14 of this same chapter is the verse that plainly addresses praying in tongues in a manner that suggests this is a common occurence.This verse has been interpreted that way in almost every Bible published as I have already posted... there are Bibles on that list I never heard of, yet each one attests to the same thing...praying in tongues is IN the Bible and you cannot take it out of there. You can ignore it...but there it is anyway. None of your proof texts demonstrate anything about praying in tongues. And you have a pretty poor idea of what constitutes "proof texts" when all you're doing is peppering me with the same verse in multiple translations. There is no need to insult me shiloh. I actually have a pretty good grasp of what I am talking about here and as far as peppering you with the same verse over and over in multiple translations, I am demonstrating that even those who believe the spiritual gifts are no longer operative, STILL TRANSLATE that verse to include praying in tongues. I daresay neither of us are experts in ancient Greek...and translating word for word is not the ideal way to go either as a literal translation in this manner looses the intent...much like say German to English or French to English or Spanish to English. English is actually a very limited language compared to ancient Greek or modern Greek and for that matter, to many languages today. I hope I don't have to bring the example of the word 'love' which we spell one way and use indiscriminately to say the same thing about our favorite ice cream or our husband or wife. Greek, has a 'love' word for every occasion. I am sure you know that, but I bring it up to illustrate the problems in trying to transliterate the Greek to English. On top of that, the NT is not modern Greek...so one would have to be a scholar of an ancient language and adept at keeping the original intent of said language. I conclude, therefore, that even though you are adamant about what you state, it actually is only your opinion with regards to praying in tongues. Now how would you know that? How would you know that myself and millions of others through the ages...even if you give credit for the authenticity of the gift of speaking in tongues( I am guessing you may not believe it to be still in use) you still omit praying in tongues as you state that the Holy Spirit is not employed in that manner....have been making fools of ourselves when we think we are praying in tongues and just what kind of light would that shed on God with all the sincere hearts turned His way? You would have thought He would have tapped us all on the shoulder, politely cleared His throat, and said "uh...kids...this is gibberish" .... As I have from time to time also received the English version of my prayers...or I shall say the intent of what I have been praying in tongues...and each and every single time things were exactly as had been shown me, are you going to state it was the devil who enlightened me? Listen, I'm not trying to be smart here. I am being sincere and anyone who prays in tongues and reads this knows just what I am writing about. Further, and also with sincerity, it might be better if you refrain from saying we are all speaking gibberish. Speaking in tongues was a gift that was meant for unbelievers, and was the ability to speak in a foreign language. It was interpreted in the presence of unbelievers to prove the gift was from God. That, is a gross over-simplification of speaking in tongues. The use of tongues as a sign is clearly indicated...in fact, that was exactly what happened on the day of Pentecost. BUT the NT has far more examples and teaching on tongues being employed both in a congregation and personally....tongues is both a sign AND a spiritual gift. What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up. 27If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God. Paul says not to forbid speaking in tongues...he states if there is no interpreter, simply to speak in tongues to yourself and to God. Why are people speaking to themself? FOR EDIFICATION... YOUR SPIRIT PRAYS EVEN IF YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND AS THE SPIRIT OF GOD KNOWS THE MIND OF GOD AND PRAYS ACCORDING TO THE WILL OF GOD And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. Romans 8:27 This is another verse that speaks of praying in tongues but I know that not everyone agrees that is so...however I Cor. 14:14 EXPLICITLY uses the term 'praying in tongues'. However, Paul also lists tongues among the spiritual gifts and we know that Acts records incidence of believers receiving the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues...OUTSIDE OF CHURCH...and at one point 12 were all speaking at one time...the Bible records no interpretation...they were addressing God as the Bible states we do when we emply that gift personally as God has granted us the privelege of doing...remember, He does not force this on anyone and I am not of the opinion that unless you speak in tongues you are not saved..the Bible never states that. There are different kinds of gifts but the same Spirit. There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. (1 Cor. 12:4-5) Each one should use whatever gift he has received to serve others, faithfully administering God's grace in its various forms. (1 Pet. 4:10) Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. (Romans 12:4-6a)

Welcome~ ~ 1. Baptism For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body--whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free-- and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 1 Corinthians 12:13 (New International Version) And Men John answered their questions by saying, "I baptize you with water; but someone is coming soon who is greater than I am --so much greater that I'm not even worthy to be his slave and untie the straps of his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. Luke 3:16 (New Living Translation) And Jesus There he found some disciples. And he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” They said, “Into John’s baptism.” And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.” On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking in tongues and prophesying. Acts 19:1-6 (English Standard Version) And Sprinkles Moses then took the blood, sprinkled it on the people and said, “This is the blood of the covenant that the Lord has made with you in accordance with all these words.” Exodus 24:8 (New International Version) and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the first-born out of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth; to him who did love us, and did bathe us from our sins in his blood, Revelation 1:5 (Young's Literal Translation) ~ 2. Daughters ‘In the last days,’ God says, ‘I will pour out my Spirit upon all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy. Your young men will see visions, and your old men will dream dreams. In those days I will pour out my Spirit even on my servants —men and women alike— and they will prophesy. Acts 2:17-18 (New Living Translation) ~ 3. Feet Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he had come from God and was going back to God, rose from supper. He laid aside his outer garments, and taking a towel, tied it around his waist. Then he poured water into a basin and began to wash the disciples’ feet and to wipe them with the towel that was wrapped around him. He came to Simon Peter, who said to him, “Lord, do you wash my feet?” Jesus answered him, “What I am doing you do not understand now, but afterward you will understand.” Peter said to him, “You shall never wash my feet.” Jesus answered him, “If I do not wash you, you have no share with me.” John 13:3-8 (English Standard Version) When he had washed their feet and put on his outer garments and resumed his place, he said to them, “Do you understand what I have done to you? You call me Teacher and Lord, and you are right, for so I am. If I then, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another’s feet. For I have given you an example, that you also should do just as I have done to you. Truly, truly, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him. John 13:12-16 (English Standard Version) ~ 4. Healing Heal me, LORD, and I will be healed; save me and I will be saved, for you are the one I praise. Jeremiah 17:14 (New International Version) Oil And if any of you is in suffering, let him pray, and if rejoicing, let him sing songs. And if one is ill, let him call The Elders of the church, and let them pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of Our Lord. And the prayer of faith heals the one who is ill and Our Lord raises him up, and if sins were done by him, they are forgiven him. James 5:13-15 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English) And The Healing Of Jesus From now on, therefore, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard him thus no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. 2 Corinthians 5:16-21 (English Standard Version) ~ May The Reading Of His Word And I will delight myself in thy commandments, which I have loved. Psalms 119:47 Both Heal You And Fill Your Hearts With His Joy My hands also will I lift up unto thy commandments, which I have loved; and I will meditate in thy statutes. Psalms 119:48 Love, Your Brother Joe

Sounds like she may just be upset that your staying in the house but doesn't want to kick you out-so she's just taking it out on you. I would recommend being patient and praying for her and the situation and as soon as feasible find your own place. Remember a kind answer turneth away wrath.

Shiloh...you appear to be in denial. The more you state the Bible does not have any reference to speaking or praying in tongues, the more you draw attention to the fact it does. Anyway, this thread is unfortuneatly going in circles and maybe it is time it was closed. How is it that you concede to this and yet deny CHRISTIANS who are filled with the Holy Spirit?

How can anyone be "missing something (inside)" if an individual is born again and has received the GIFT of the Holy Spirit, the GIFT of eternal life, the GIFT of Christ within, the GIFT of the New Birth, the GIFT of justification by faith, the GIFT of sanctification by the indwelling Holy Spirit, and the GIFT of the Word of God. It is erroneous to teach that believers are not COMPLETE in Christ. Yes they are commanded to be "filled" with the Spirit, but that filling is evident by the "fruits" of the Spirit, and as Paul says, the greatest GIFT of the Spirit, which is AGAPE (love). It is incorrect to teach that the evidence of the filling of the Spirit is the gift of tongues. Notice what the true evidence is (Acts 4:31): And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness. What makes you think that's what I meant? It isn't... I personaly don't speak in tongues, but through the gift of "discernment" I respect the ones who do because I know it comes from God. Post #40...

Why bother wasting the energy or the nails, axe? "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us." -- 1 John 2:19 Jesus said things like this were going to happen before His return. Don't get me wrong: I don't like it, but there's nothing I can do about it except pray and move on. Folks like Bell and others will answer to Jesus for their actions.

My God Is Greater The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel. Joel 3:16 So Why Do They Do It? Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. Psalms 2:1-3 Because They Do Not Know Jesus Nor His Father He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. Psalms 2:4-9 That's Why.... Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him. Psalms 2:10-12 ~ Beloved, Pray For Israel For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? Romans 11:15 And Look Up For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 Maranatha~!

There have been a number of people meeting and teaching "in the name of Christ" with the demonic New Age teaching queen Oprah Winfrey over the years. Rob Bell, bad news to be sure. I saw him in a video discussing the 7 points of the demonic kundalini “chakra” once. No eternal“Hell” with this false man and his teachings. The Emergent and Council on Foreign Relations member Rick Warren, who embraced and endorsed Dan Kimball's book “The Emerging Church” that I've discussed at the board in the past. Rick Warren and Oprah talked about purpose in life in "Oprah's Lifeclass." He has waffled back and forth on the “gay” issue for some time. No surprise to see motivational speaker Joel Osteen with Oprah either, with “his” hit book “Your Best Life Now!” was also in "Oprah's Lifeclass." When Oprah asked him “Will a gay person be accepted into heaven, as you see it?,” “I believe they will,” he replied... Oneness Pentecostal (One who does not believe in the trinity of God) and prosperity preacher T.D. Jakes, was with "Oprah's Lifeclass." He did at least make a stance against the homosexual issue when with asked by Oprah... This list of those who name Christ with the New Age preacher Oprah goes on! 2Co 6:14-15 (14) Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? (15) And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? As far as the homosexual issue goes, many denominations are embracing this and many other sins. Repentance towards Jesus Christ is there only hope. Mar 1:14-15 (14) Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, (15) And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Amen Sevenseas well explained and Shiloh see post #40. I'm very surprise at your reaction about tongues Shiloh, you're so knowledgeable with scriptures but didnt realize you were missing something (inside)...

A few years ago my Church did a book study on a Rob Bell book and I thought he had some talent.... but over the years he had fallen very far from the faith and started getting weirder with his views. I do not believe he is a Christian at all now. I would never read any of his stuff again.

Have you ever seen the smiley face that has a bullet hole in its forehead? I agree with floating axe. There are times that I have screamed "its just not fair!" to God. The stuff that goes on in the world, that has been set in motion and we get caught in the cross fire, happens to all of us. Sometimes we trust that God has it all under control and will somehow use it for good, and sometimes we are completely overwhelmed and are in the darkness of dispair and grief. Sometimes we throw temper tantrums, and sometimes we pout like Jonah who sat under the plant and then even it died. Sometimes we feel totally alone like Elijah. Sometimes we live with Job. But it is satan who came to kill, steal and destroy. He is the father of lies. And he attacks us when we are down. He tempts us to sin and bitterly blame God when we are hurting. Still God offers us grace and comfort. But each time I go through tough trials, something in me is so wounded its life slips away. It is self. It is me that screams and protests till nothing is left but "nevertheless, not my will be done, but Thine." Then peace comes. Corrie tenBoom said, Don't wrestle, just nestle. As long as I am throwing my tantrum, God can't comfort me. And in the end I just want Him to hold me close. Eventuallly perhaps I will come to the place that I can rest in His perfect peace in all circumstances, with nothing but joy in my heart, even in the midst of tragedy. It is a place of complete trust and reliance on God. And it is when my old man, the self, is lifeless.

What axe said....

This is a good point that many people miss: Satan/Lucifer has been losing his power in stages. Luke 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. According to the Hebraic sages, there was an original fall even before man was created, from the very highest realm. He is now either in the lowest heaven, and/or in the "heavens"/sky/air of the material world: opinions differ on this. He will soon to be cast to earth, at the beginning of the Trib. In contrast, God's chosen of mankind have been increasing in power, from Adamic flesh-level, to Abrahamic soul-level, to Christ spirit-level. Those accounted worthy will soon enter into light-level, and be able to dwell in presence (not just in spirit) before the heavenly throne. Hi WilliamL, Some good thoughts there. And I thought I might enlarge on a point we are both making re Satan`s authority decreasing. People can get confused thinking that because Satan effects us on earth that he is only on earth. However scripture tells us that he is the prince of the power of the air. `And you he made alive, who were dead in trespasses & sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,...` (Eph. 2: 1 & 2) This connects with the scripture in Colossians - `For by Him all things were created that are in heaven & that are on earth, visible & invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers.` (Col. 1: 16) Thus we see that there is an invisible realm where there are powers & authorities over principalities, Satan being the prince, the leader of that realm. Thus he can effect & influence the whole world - `We know that .....the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.` (1 John 5: 19) However, in God`s timing Satan will be cast to the earth. `So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil & Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, & his angels were cast out with him......Woe to the inhabitants of the earth & the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.` (Rev. 12: 9 & 12) Satan`s authority & power is then greatly limited. He enters a man who then has great power & authority to deceive the world. `And the dragon gave him his power, his throne & great authority.` (Rev. 13: 2) Isaiah 14 & Ezekiel 28 give good descriptions of Satan`s downfall. Praise the Lord for He is the great conqueror, overcoming all strategies of the enemy. Marilyn.

I'm keeping it simple. I believe that they do fight physically (but when I say physically I mean in spiritual bodies in the spiritual realm of course). They are immortal but can still feel pain, hurt each other, carry weapons and even capture and bind each other.

Some will look at the event in history to compare the world in general while others look at the morality of the populaces to compare the decline in morality. The OP was not clear as to where to comparison should be, so the posters address the subject by what they take from the OP. I can see a problem with having such a wide subject base since we cannot put into number the amount of people who have declined in morality as we can count the deaths by the actions of a few.

September 11, actually. Exactly two Shemitahs after the 9/11 judgment, which also plays a role in all of this. And yes, we're now in the seventh Shemitah. It's a cliche to say, but it's the truth. There are no coincidences in the things of God. Thanks for your thoughts on the matter, brother! God bless you!

Hey keith, Not sure I am going to be much help, but I do have something to add as far as the Shemitah. As I understand it, this will be the 7th Shemitah since the resurrection, which I don't think is a mere coincidence, and it begins Sept. 13th of this year if I am not mistaken. Historically, something significant has always occurred on these years, so all of these things added together indicate to me that we should expect some fireworks in the near future. God bless you.