hmbld

Shiloh said: Yes, it does mean, ,"sacrificially" as it was his sacrifice for the church that is referenced in Eph. 5:25. That may not be the only way in which Christ loves the Church, but it is one way and it tops the list. I don't see why that is such a problem for you. In truth, "love" is a servant, biblically. There is a mutual submission that takes place when two people love each other. In Scripture, love is not an emotion, but is rooted in action. Love always serves, so when God tells a woman to submit to her husband and he tells the husband to love his wife, it is actually a two-way street. He loves her sacrificially, as Christ loved the Church and she submits to that love. everyone knows love is all emotional. You fall in and out of love. One is at the mercy of love, one cant help it. Satan has taught this lie well. Great post Shiloh!

No, the husband should choose to lead as shown in scripture. Not as he decides. If he gets it wrong does not make the wife's duty null however.

lol, anything that is not against His nature, nice one mega.

My question is what is the carter center and how could a former US pres have access to any current information that is not available elsewhere?

Agreed. God can not be constrained by His creation. God exists outside of our understanding of time. Just because we are limited to our present, does not mean God is limited.

I am loving the factual points made by Mega in both threads, what the bible does not say, and what the bible does say. I see no brow beating. Just facts. These two threads would be immensely better if people set their beliefs aside and posted scripture to either agree or disagree with Mega, even though some are assuming he said more than he did lol. Please do provide scripture, there are lots of threads with opinions, which does not help me arrive at the truth at all lol.

I don't believe a church is required. Do you know any christian? Seriously, any christian friend can do this, invite your friends, family, Acts 8:36 As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch said, "Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?" In Acts 8, wasn't there only two people there?

thanks mega!

True, the three words together is not found in the bible, yet I don't believe that is the point of the OP, as the claim was made that that phrase is divisive, which I do not agree but interesting to see how far some will go to agree with the OP, as I see the addition of born again as simply pointing to how one could call oneself a christian without ever really encountering Jesus, at least in the sense of accepting Him as Lord and truly being born again. Not divisive or "being better than", but the phrase to me points out the heart condition. And even if all has already been said, you could say that about almost every thread here! lol. So I kinda expect the reruns to keep coming, and perhaps I can learn a little each time.

Amen Jeff, I will agree with this! (yet truly I do not believe we can deceive ourselves very long into believing we are the ones seeking Him, for He calls us, and we can take no credit in this)

In addition to what Shiloh just said, you are claiming all through the centuries christians refused to be soldiers? This infers all christians? The statement sounds as if all christians refused to be soldiers, I would agree that some christians have refused to be soldiers, yet many soldiers are Christians. Just struck me as being judgmental of who can be a Christian, maybe I read too much into this . . .

And what do we attribute the source of these "virtues"? I ask not because I dislike this image, but because it reminds me that growing up it seemed that I learned these virtues are sought and found by self-effort, and self-effort in my experience has failed. I wonder if my wording is critical, as I do not intend it to be, just attempting a discussion.

Can you reconcile this with Shiloh's claim stating the pope's basement is stocked with weapons of murder? I have no knowledge if this is true, only nobody has disputed it. If christians should have nothing to do with killing, yet the religious leader of so many people has weapons, then we need some clarification.

I would say we are inherently wounded so that our communion with God is lost. That does not make us inherently evil. This is 180 degrees out of line with the Word of God.... I disagree. The words of Jesus: Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. Mat 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. Luk 6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh. Rom 3:23 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; KJV Is this good TLF and does it refer to all people? I think we need to reconcile that with the words of Christ above. Christ was talking about sinners when he said the sun rises on the evil and good alike. Since all have sinned, this would refer to all people. Some of whom Jesus referred to as good. I am well aware of the bible referencing the "good". It is not negating the verses that tell us all have sinned. To say we are "wounded" seems to imply we are victims, to which I say no, the bible teaches we are sinners, and if born again, the our only righteousness is in Christ, not ourselves.

I would say we are inherently wounded so that our communion with God is lost. That does not make us inherently evil. This is 180 degrees out of line with the Word of God.... I disagree. The words of Jesus: Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. Mat 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. Luk 6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh. Rom 3:23 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; KJV Is this good TLF and does it refer to all people? I think we need to reconcile that with the words of Christ above. Christ was talking about sinners when he said the sun rises on the evil and good alike. Since all have sinned, this would refer to all people.

5. Sola Scriptura is the teaching of Christ and the apostles, therefore the bible is the sole authority for faith, doctrine and and practice. Ezra can you show me where Jesus and the Apostles taught Sola Scriptura 2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. 1Co 4:6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other. Act 17:10-11 NKJV Then the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea. When they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. (11) These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so. The scriptures are from where all truth flows, because the scriptures were God breathed. Paul praised the bereans for searching the scriptures instead of just listening to what he said. The idea that the traditions of men can ever supersede or even be equivalent to God's word is so ridiculous as to be farcical, especially when you look at how those "traditions" have been manipulated over the centuries (indulgences, really?). Isa 40:8 The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever." 2 Ti 3:16 Does it say ONLY scripture is given by inspiration of God? Nothing else is ever referred to as "inspired" other than Scripture. Nothing else can be inerrant, infallible, or immutable. No other document on earth bears the same marks of divine inspiration other than the Bible. No teaching or tradition by anyone is held up as having the same marks of divine inspiration as the Bible has. The Bible alone is the final arbiter of all matters of Christian faith and practice. No human teachings and no "sacred traditions" of the RCC are inspired by God. We don't need a verse that says, "only the Bible is inspired." That's because neither Paul or any other of the Apostles claimed anything outside of the Bible, including their own extra-biblical teachings God did not include as part of Scripture, to be inspired. Sigh, Shiloh as it is all too often you twist and ignore. Jesus left the deposit of faith orally with the Apostles. Are you going to claim that was not inspired? So your entire argument falls apart. Where in scripture can you back up your claims. You can not. It was the Church, that determined which books where to be considered inspired while being guided by the Holy Spirit. Show me using scripture which books where to be considered inspired and which ones where not. We have Sacride Scripture and Sacride Tradition (the oral deposit of faith) and he left his Church to teach and guide his people. Shiloh your fallible tradition is dependant upon the Church. What Jesus spoke was recorded in scripture, which is inspired. Traditions are spoken of in a very poor light in scripture. What makes anyone think God would not record in scripture that which He wants to tell us? Traditions are of men. Mark 7:6-8 6He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “ ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 7They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.’b 8You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.”

I read that the 6000 number is only part of the goal. 6000 relatively soon with over 100,000 released over time, with as many as 1/3being illegal aliens to be deported.

How dare you still trying to figure out if this thread is serious lol. Would a person be offended by those words grouped together if they are born again? Idunnohow. right there with ya ok. So one should make an effort not to offend, while also not backing down from scripture. Since those three words are not used together in scripture, should one then concede to not offend? Even after reading the reasoning some gave for it being offensive, I am shocked to learn some view this subject thus.

Interesting. "hypocrisy of speaking of peace and producing arms," so speaking peace and making guns is hyprocrisy, but speaking against arms makers while using arms for protection is not? It is interesting how long a subject is danced around, yet not met head on.

Well see I don't think he would have been successful with such a frontal, head on attack. It would have been very easy for her to see what he was up to. Eve: God said not to eat of the fruit. Satan: No He didn't. Eve: Of course He did silly. Satan is much more devious than to use a head on, frontal attack that is so obvious. Obvious lies don't work. It takes no cunning to make a frontal, head on attack. Anyone can do that. But satan is a master of subterfuge. So if he used cunning as Paul said, then he was looking for a more devious way to attack. from the side or the back. When she said they could not touch it as well, then he found his way to contradict her without it being obvious he was spinning a lie, and so the basis for the deception was laid. Otherwise, there would be no need for Paul to say satan used cunning as frontal, head on attacks take no cunning. I agree, the cunning of the devil is a lot deeper than people imagine or read, as you've already pointed out about three angles the devil took in your previous posts. He was counting on the responses of Eve's mind, not just what she said in return, but her responses indicated to him that the "subterfuge" was working. The seemingly direct talk of the serpent, gave an ere of honesty. Unlike a word or sentence spoken to us, Eve's mind was able to comprehend incredibly vast implications of every sentiment that was spoken to her, she was not naive or stupid. She comprehended that there was good in the eating of that fruit, and while the great idea of wisdom was being weighed in her mind, the taking and eating of that fruit seemed like an insignificant deed, which should be experimented with, but without dire consequence, particularly because the fruit was beautiful, supposedly able to give the gift of speech to the snake, and apparently harmless. But the grand godly heights offered to Eve, she already had by default, and plain submission would have saved her from trading it in for a grave. Yielding to the concept that God was withholding something, it was a betrayal of God without cause. I said before that she did not openly rebel, but upon reflection, that's not quite true, because rebellion is rebellion even if it claims to be tasty and rewarding, - "able to make one wise." It is still disloyalty of the highest degree, which is treachery. A submissive heart cannot covet. The devil was counting on the pair coveting, like himself. true, we can analyze, justify, claim confusion, whatever. But simply submitting to God's word eliminates all that garbage. Eve choose to willfully sin no matter how you analyze it.

How dare you still trying to figure out if this thread is serious lol. Would a person be offended by those words grouped together if they are born again? Idunnohow.

So I can claim to be a Christian, or born again, but not both as it may offend?

My understanding is Jeff got it right.

I have definitely had problems with this as of late. I have struggled with holding grudges, especially in the past, so at those times, I don’t think I am worthy of being forgiven (if I don’t do the same). At times like those, I hope for God’s grace and mercy to pardon my sins. When I have trouble with grudges I always take it to God in pray, and tell Him that this person has hurt me to much for me to forgive and ask for help from the Holy Spirit, because if it is left up to me, I just can't do it. Usually a simple pray like this does it, occasionally I really have to get into prayer so that the Holy Spirit can get a hold of my heart. But if you read Luke 11:38-41, I think you will find the answer that Jesus gave concerning this matter. Heard a sermon today about when you have problems with difficult people who hurt you (the example given was in a workplace), to ask God for a transfer. Not a job transfer, lol. 1 Peter 5:7 Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you. By taking all your anxiety, or cares to Jesus, you are asking for a transfer lol. I liked the wording of asking for a transfer! And it continued of course on how God will bring difficult people into your life to create a change in our hearts, to mold us to be more like Jesus. Yes,don't ask for a transfer to another department give that person to Jesus.Proverbs 25:22 For so you will heap coals of fire on his head,And the Lord will reward you. Then kill them with kindness. Hard to grasp that heaping coals on someone's head is being kind to them! Just sounds like the opposite.

I have definitely had problems with this as of late. I have struggled with holding grudges, especially in the past, so at those times, I don’t think I am worthy of being forgiven (if I don’t do the same). At times like those, I hope for God’s grace and mercy to pardon my sins. When I have trouble with grudges I always take it to God in pray, and tell Him that this person has hurt me to much for me to forgive and ask for help from the Holy Spirit, because if it is left up to me, I just can't do it. Usually a simple pray like this does it, occasionally I really have to get into prayer so that the Holy Spirit can get a hold of my heart. But if you read Luke 11:38-41, I think you will find the answer that Jesus gave concerning this matter. Heard a sermon today about when you have problems with difficult people who hurt you (the example given was in a workplace), to ask God for a transfer. Not a job transfer, lol. 1 Peter 5:7 Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you. By taking all your anxiety, or cares to Jesus, you are asking for a transfer lol. I liked the wording of asking for a transfer! And it continued of course on how God will bring difficult people into your life to create a change in our hearts, to mold us to be more like Jesus.