Willa

I was raised in a liberal church that was proud of the fact that they taught nearly nothing about God or salvation. They did teach repentance and confessing Jesus as Savior and Lord, baptism by immersion and communion every Sunday. Everything else we were to learn by reading the Bible. I wish they had taught that Jesus is God with us, Immanuel. That we need to surrender all areas of our lives to the rule of Christ The Trinity. How to walk in the Spirit That Christ comes to live in and through us to love and forgive others That a Christian isn't supposed to be like everyone else The Bible is God-breathed, the word of God Himself. Salvation is by grace through faith and not by works--it is a gift

Humm. Another big foot? (being facetious.)

I always say blood colored glasses since He sees us through Christ's blood on the heavenly alter.

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. Col 1:19 For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross. and not according to Christ. Col 2:9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, Joh 17:21 that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

Rom 6:15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Rom 6:16 Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? Rom 6:17 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, Rom 6:18 and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. Luk 10:25 And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" Luk 10:26 He said to him, "What is written in the Law? How do you read it?" Luk 10:27 And he answered, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself." Luk 10:28 And he said to him, "You have answered correctly; do this, and you will live." Rom 13:8 Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. Rom 13:9 For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Rom 13:10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

God still does miracles today, but some churches don't want to put on a side show. The best and most incredulous miracle is a changed life in which Jesus lives.

God sent into my life a man who was full of hate and who sounded a lot like Archie Bunker. I could not love that man and God convicted me of MY lack of love. This is how He taught me about His love. I learned through Archie first to laugh at the man's illogical conclusions and fallacies, and then to laugh at my own. God helped me to see how miserable Archie was, and how bitter hatred had so corrupted this man I was forced to endure at times. He was full of sin and was a pawn of satan, being still in his domain. But he had need of nothing. He was just as good as the next guy and wanted no part of God or a Savior. And so he died. I weep for this man who was so lost and for those like him. God used him to change my hatred to pity and compassion--to see him as God sees him. For such did Christ come.

What can be more beautiful than a heart overflowing with praise and thanksgiving!

Excerpt : The Extent of the Atonement: Limited Atonement Versus Unlimited Atonement by Ron Rhodes The following discussion of limited atonement versus unlimited atonement has been put together because many people have contacted me for more information regarding what this debate is all about - and why I (Ron Rhodes), in particular, hold to unlimited atonement. The following discussion is intended as a brief summary. Not every argument for limited atonement has been listed; not every argument for unlimited atonement has been listed. But the major arguments for both positions are set forth in a brief fashion. I also quote from advocates of both positions. Though I strongly believe in unlimited atonement, I have many friends who believe in limited atonement. We do not divide over this issue; neither should you. My position is known in theological circles as "4-point Calvinism." "5-point Calvinists" hold to T-U-L-I-P: Total Depravity. Unconditional Election. Limited Atonement. Irresistible Grace. Perseverance of the Saints. As a 4-point Calvinist, I hold to all the above except limited atonement. I point this out simply because it has been the habit of some of the limited atonement persuasion to say that all who hold to unlimited atonement are Arminian in their theology. This simply is not so. The Issue Defined Theologian Walter Elwell summarizes the debate over the extent of the atonement this way: "Although there are variations as to the basic ways in which this subject can be addressed, the choices boil down to two: either the death of Jesus was intended to secure salvation for a limited number or the death of Jesus was intended to provide salvation for everyone. The first view is sometimes called 'limited atonement' because God limited the effect of Christ's death to a specific number of elect persons, or 'particular redemption' because redemption was for a particular group of people. The second view is sometimes referred to as 'unlimited atonement' or 'general redemption' because God did not limit Christ's redemptive death to the elect, but allowed it to be for mankind in general." LIMITED ATONEMENTDefinition of Limited Atonement: "A reference to the view that Christ's atoning death was only for the elect." Arguments Set Forth in Favor of Limited Atonement The Bible speaks of a limited extent of the atonement. The Bible says Christ died for a specific group of people - "the church," "His people," "His sheep." Louis Berkhof says: "Scripture repeatedly qualifies those for whom Christ laid down His life in such a way as to point to a very definite limitation. Those for whom He suffered and died are variously called 'His sheep,' John 10:11, 15, 'His Church,' Acts 20:28; Eph. 5:25-27, 'His people,' Matt. 1:21, and 'the elect,' Rom. 8:32-35." UNLIMITED ATONEMENT Definition of Unlimited Atonement: "A reference to the doctrine that Christ's redemptive death was for all persons." Representative Passages Offered in Support of Unlimited Atonement (Note: To clarify my position on a few of these verses, I have added some expositional text and quotations from various biblical scholars.) Luke 19:10: "For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost." (The "lost" seems to refer to the entire world of lost humanity, not just the lost elect.) John Calvin says of this verse: "He uses the word sin in the singular number for any kind of iniquity; as if he had said that every kind of unrighteousness which alienates men from God is taken away by Christ. And when he says the sin of the world, he extends this favor indiscriminately to the whole human race." Ryle similarly states: "Christ is...a Savior for all mankind....He did not suffer for a few persons only, but for all mankind....What Christ took away, and bore on the cross, was not the sin of certain people only, but the whole accumulated mass of all the sins of all the children of Adam....I hold as strongly as anyone that Christ's death is profitable to none but the elect who believe in His Name. But I dare not limit and pare down such expressions as the one before us....I dare not confine the intention of redemption to the saints alone. Christ is for every man....The atonement was made for all the world, though it is applied and enjoyed by none but believers." John 3:16: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." The Greek lexicons are unanimous that "world" here denotes humankind, not the "world of the elect." John 3:16 cannot be divorced from verses 14-15, wherein Christ alludes to Numbers 21 with its discussion of Moses setting up the brazen serpent in the camp of Israel, so that if "any man" looked to it, he experienced physical deliverance. In verse 15 Christ applies the story spiritually when He says that "whosoever" believes on the uplifted Son of Man shall experience spiritual deliverance. John Calvin says: "He has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term world which He formerly used [God so loved the world]; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet He shows Himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when He invites all men without exception [not merely 'without distinction'] to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life." John 4:42: "They said to the woman, 'We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world.'" It is certain that when the Samaritans called Jesus "the Savior of the world," they were not thinking of the world of the elect. Likewise, when Jesus said, "I am the Light of the world" (John 8:12), He was not thinking of Himself as the Light of the world of the elect. "The sun in the heavens shines on all men, though some, in their folly, may choose to withdraw into dark caves to evade its illuminating rays." When Jesus called His disciples "the light of the world" (Matt. 5:14), He did not mean they were the "light of the elect." Likewise, the "Savior of the world" in John 4:42 cannot be limited to the elect. Acts 2:21: "And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." Romans 5:6: "You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly." 2 Corinthians 5:14-15: "For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again." 1 Timothy 2:3-4: "This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth." 1 Timothy 2:5-6: "For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men - the testimony given in its proper time." 1 Timothy 4:10: "We have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe." Titus 2:11: "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men." Hebrews 2:9: "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone." The word "everyone" is better translated "each." Henry Alford comments: "If it be asked, why pantos (each) rather than panton (all), we may safely say that the singular brings out, far more strongly than the plural word, the applicability of Christ's death to each individual man." 2 Peter 3:9: "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." 1 John 2:2: "He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world." (Note the distinction between "ours" and "the whole world.") 1 John 4:14: "And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world." Arguments Set Forth in Favor of Unlimited Atonement There are certain Scripture passages that seem very difficult to fit within the framework of limited atonement. For example: Romans 5:6 says: "At just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly." It doesn't make much sense to read this as saying that Christ died for the ungodly of the elect. Romans 5:18 says: "Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men." Regarding this verse, John Calvin says: "He makes this favor common to all, because it is propoundable to all, and not because it is in reality extended to all [i.e., in their experience]; for though Christ suffered for the sins of the whole world, and is offered through God's benignity indiscriminately to all, yet all do not receive Him." Regarding the two occurrences of the phrase "all men," E. H. Gifford comments: "The words all men [in v. 18] must have the same extent in both clauses." 1 John 2:2 says: "He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world." A natural reading of this verse, without imposing theological presuppositions on it, seems to support unlimited atonement. Isaiah 53:6 says: "We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all" (Isa. 53:6). This verse doesn't make sense unless it is read to say that the same "all" that went astray is the "all" for whom the Lord died. "In the first of these statements, the general apostasy of men is declared; in the second, the particular deviation of each one; in the third, the atoning suffering of the Messiah, which is said to be on behalf of all. As the first 'all' is true of all men (and not just of the elect), we judge that the last 'all' relates to the same company." --- 1 Timothy 4:10 says: "...we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe." There is a clear distinction here between "all men" and "those who believe." In 2 Peter 2:1, it seems that Christ even paid the price of redemption for false teachers who deny Him: "But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them - bringing swift destruction on themselves." Millard Erickson notes that "2 Peter 2:1 seems to point out most clearly that people for whom Christ died may be lost....there is a distinction between those for whom Christ died and those who are finally saved." John 3:17 says: "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him." Regarding this verse John Calvin says: "God is unwilling that we should be overwhelmed with everlasting destruction, because He has appointed His Son to be the salvation of the world." Calvin also stated: "The word world is again repeated, that no man may think himself wholly excluded, if he only keeps the road of faith." Many passages indicate that the Gospel is to be universally proclaimed, and this supports unlimited atonement. Matthew 24:14: "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come." Matthew 28:19: "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit..." Acts 1:8: "But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth." Acts 17:30: "In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent." Titus 2:11: "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men." In view of such passages, it is legitimate to ask: "If Christ died only for the elect, how can the offer of salvation be made to all persons without some sort of insincerity, artificiality, or dishonesty being involved? Is it not improper to offer salvation to everyone if in fact Christ did not die to save everyone?" "How can God authorize His servants to offer pardon to the non-elect if Christ did not purchase it for them? This is a problem that does not plague those who hold to General [Unlimited] Redemption, for it is most reasonable to proclaim the Gospel to all if Christ died for all." Those who deny unlimited atonement cannot say to any sinner, "Christ died for you." (After all, he may be one of the non-elect.) ---- "To believe that some are elect and some nonelect creates no problem for the soulwinner provided he is free in his convictions to declare that Christ died for each one to whom he speaks. He knows that the nonelect will not accept the message. He knows also that even an elect person may resist it to near the day of his death. But if the preacher believes that any portion of his audience is destitute of any basis of salvation, having no share in the values of Christ's death, it is no longer a question in his mind of whether they will accept or reject; it becomes rather a question of truthfulness in the declaration of the message." 2 Peter 3:9 says: "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." How can this be if Christ died only and exclusively for the elect? Romans 5 indicates that through Adam's act of disobedience the entire human race became the recipients of sin. And through one act of obedience the last Adam made provision for the gracious gift of righteousness for the entire human race. The disobedience of the one was co-extensive with the obedience of the other. Scripture says that Christ died for "sinners" (1 Tim. 1:15; Rom. 5:6-8). The word "sinner" nowhere is limited to the elect or to the church. It is used exclusively in the Bible of lost humanity. Scripture tells us that Christ died for sinners, not penitent sinners, and for the ungodly, not for just some of them. Seemingly restrictive references can be logically fit into an unlimited scenario more easily than universal references made to fit into a limited atonement scenario. "The problem that both groups face is the need to harmonize passages that refer to limited redemption with passages that refer to unlimited redemption. To the unlimited redemptionist the limited redemption passages present no real difficulty. He believes that they merely emphasize one aspect of a larger truth. Christ did die for the elect, but He also died for the sins of the whole world. However, the limited redemptionist is not able to deal with the unlimited redemption passages as easily." The two sets of passages noted earlier - one set seemingly in support of limited atonement, the other in support of unlimited atonement - are not irreconcilable. As Elwell puts it, "It is true that the benefits of Christ's death are referred to as belonging to the elect, his sheep, his people, but it would have to be shown that Christ died only for them. No one denies that Christ died for them. It is only denied that Christ died exclusively for them." _________ To sum up, Christ did not give Himself in the atonement only for Paul, or only for Israel, or only for the church, but for all men. Universal terms like "world" should not be restricted in contexts which speak of the atonement. It is true that words like "all" and "world" are sometimes used in the Bible in a restricted sense. But context is always determinative. Robert Lightner comments: "Those who always limit the meaning of those terms in contexts that deal with salvation do so on the basis of theological presuppositions, not on the basis of the texts themselves." A word study of the word "world" - particularly in the apostle John's writings, where it is used 78 times - indicates that the world is God-hating, Christ-rejecting, and Satan-dominated. Yet this is the world that Christ died for. Particularly in John's writings, interpreting "world" as "world of the elect" seems a great distortion of Scripture. Among the scholarly lexicons, encyclopedias, and dictionaries that know nothing of the meaning "world of the elect" for the biblical word "world" (kosmos) are: Kittel's Theological Dictionary of the New Testament. Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words. Vincent's Word Studies in the New Testament. Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament. Souter's Pocket Lexicon of the New Testament. The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge. Hastings' Dictionary of the Bible. The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia. The New Bible Dictionary. Baker's Dictionary of Theology. Arndt and Gingrich's A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament. Walter Martin, founder of the Christian Research Institute, observes: "John the Apostle tells us that Christ gave His life as a propitiation for our sin (i.e., the elect), though not for ours only but for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2)....[People] cannot evade John's usage of 'whole' (Greek: holos). In the same context the apostle quite cogently points out that 'the whole (holos) world lies in wickedness' or, more properly, 'in the lap of the wicked one' (1 John 5:19, literal translation). If we assume that 'whole' applies only to the chosen or elect of God, then the 'whole world does not 'lie in the lap of the wicked one.' This, of course, all reject." We must also ask, How can the Holy Spirit have a ministry to the whole world in showing men their need of Jesus Christ (John 14-16) if the death of Christ does not make provision for the whole world? John 16:8-11 says: "But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned." Notice in this passage that "the world" is clearly distinguished from "you" and "your." Yet the Holy Spirit is said to bring conviction on the world. And one of the things the Spirit convicts "the world" of is the sin of not believing on Christ (v. 9). We are not to conclude that "the world" that is convicted of unbelief is the world of the elect, are we? (If so, then Satan, the "prince of this world" [v. 11, same context], must be the "prince of the elect.") Calvin says of this passage that "under the term world are, I think, included not only those who would be truly converted to Christ, but hypocrites and reprobate." Though God is completely sovereign over all things, this does not mean He brings into reality everything He "desires." ______ Consider Matthew 23:37: "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing." What Christ desired was not what came about. One further example relates to Jesus, who told some Jews in John 5:34: "I say these things that you may be saved." But "saved" they were not. Why? Because Christ added in verse 40, "You are unwilling to come to Me, that you may have life." Here is a clear case of "but ye would not," despite the clear offer of salvation. "There are reasons which are based on the Scriptures why our sovereign God might provide a redemption for all when He merely purposed by decree to save some. He is justified in placing the whole world in a particular relation to Himself so that the gospel might be preached with all sincerity to all men, and so that on the human side men might be without excuse, being judged, as they are, for their rejection of that which is offered to them." That one rejects limited atonement does not in any way mean that one lessens or diminishes the clear scriptural doctrine of the sovereignty of God. Any who make such an allegation are simply uninformed. "Without the slightest inconsistency the unlimited redemptionists may believe in an election according to sovereign grace, that none but the elect will be saved, that all of the elect will be saved, and that the elect are by divine enablement alone called out of the state of spiritual death from which they are impotent to take even one step in the direction of their own salvation. The text, 'No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him' (John 6:44), is as much a part of the one system of doctrine as it is of the other." Matthew 26:28 says, "This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins." The reference to "many" in Christ's words do not support limited atonement but rather support unlimited atonement. One must keep in mind that earlier in Matthew Jesus had said that few find eternal life (Matt. 7:14) and few are chosen (22:14). But Christ did not say His blood was poured out for a few, but for many. John Calvin thus declares of this verse: "By the word many He means not a part of the world only, but the whole human race." This is the same meaning as in Romans 5:15: "For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! Note that the "many" of verse 15 is clearly defined in verse 18 as "all men": "...just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men." Notice that in this verse Paul speaks of Adam's sin, and of the resultant death coming upon all his descendants. But then the apostle goes on to speak of the grace of God and of its resultant gift (of life), abounding to the same company. I say, "to the same company," because "the many" in the second clause of the verse is coextensive with "the many" in the first clause. Answers to Three Common Questions 1. If Christ died for those who go to hell, what benefit have they from His death? Answer: "We may as well ask, What good did the bitten Israelites get from the brazen serpent to which they refused to look? None, of course, but God got the glory of being a God generous enough to provide for them." 2. If satisfaction has been made for all, how can any go to hell? Answer: "Though God has provided atonement for all, He has also stipulated that none get the good of it, except through repentance and faith. Deliverance from doom was not contingent on the atonement itself but on the reception of it. Men can starve in the presence of a free feast, if they refuse to partake of it." ___ Reply to Some Criticisms Made By Proponents of Limited Atonement The charge that unlimited atonement leads to universalism is special pleading. "Just because one believes that Christ died for all does not mean all are saved. One must believe in Christ to be saved, so the fact that Christ died for the world apparently does not secure the salvation of all. Those who assert this are simply wrong." God makes the provision of salvation for all men, but it is conditioned by faith. Thus, salvation becomes actual only for the elect, although it is potential and available to all. "Our inheriting eternal life involves two separate factors: an objective factor (Christ's provision of salvation) and a subjective factor (our acceptance of that salvation)." Moderate Calvinists distinguish between the provisional benefits of Christ's death and the appropriation of those benefits by the elect. Although the provision of atonement is unlimited, yet the application of it is limited. In his book The Death Christ Died, Robert Lightner explains: "[Moderate Calvinists] believe the cross does not apply its own benefits but that God has conditioned His full and free salvation upon personal faith in order to appropriate its accomplishments to the individual. This faith which men must exercise is not a work whereby man contributes his part to his salvation, nor does faith, in the moderate Calvinist view, improve in any way the final and complete sacrifice of Calvary. It is simply the method of applying Calvary's benefits which the sovereign God has deigned to use in His all-wise plan of salvation." God is not unfair in condemning those who reject the offer of salvation. He is not exacting judgment twice. "Because the nonbeliever refuses to accept the death of Christ as his own, the benefits of Christ's death are not applied to him. He is lost, not because Christ did not die for him, but because he refuses God's offer of forgiveness." The electing purpose of God is not complete until the elect are in glory. Since this is true, and since the cross provides salvation dependent on faith for its reception, and since the cross does not secure salvation apart from that faith, there is no contradiction with God's sovereignty. Unlimited atonement has been held by a majority of scholars throughout church history. Millard Erickson points out that unlimited atonement has been "held by the vast majority of theologians, reformers, evangelists, and fathers from the beginning of the church until the present day, including virtually all the writers before the Reformation, with the possible exception of Augustine. Among the Reformers the doctrine is found in Luther, Melanchthon, Bullinger, Latimer, Cranmer, Coverdale, and even Calvin in some of his commentaries....Is it likely that the overwhelming majority of Christians could have so misread the leading of the Holy Spirit on such an important point?" Robert Lightner addresses Calvin's position on the issue: "Those who subscribe to a limited atonement generally argue that that is the position espoused by Calvin. But it is highly debatable that he did, in fact, hold that view....Whereas some scholars have attempted to show that there is harmony between Calvin and later orthodox Calvinism, others have argued that contemporary Calvinism has veered significantly from Calvin's teaching, including his teaching on the extent of the atonement." (The reader will recall that a number of Calvin's citations in this paper show him favorable to unlimited atonement.) Quotations from the Early Church Fathers Clement of Alexandria (150-220): "Christ freely brings...salvation to the whole human race." Eusebius (260-340): "It was needful that the Lamb of God should be offered for the other lambs whose nature He assumed, even for the whole human race." Athanasius (293-373): "Christ the Son of God, having assumed a body like ours, because we were all exposed to death [which takes in more than the elect], gave Himself up to death for us all as a sacrifice to His Father." Cyril of Jerusalem (315-386): "Do not wonder if the whole world was ransomed, for He was not a mere man, but the only-begotten Son of God." Gregory of Nazianzen (324-389): "The sacrifice of Christ is an imperishable expiation of the whole world." Basil (330-379): "But one thing was found that was equivalent to all men....the holy and precious blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, which He poured out for us all." Ambrose (340-407): "Christ suffered for all, rose again for all. But if anyone does not believe in Christ, he deprives himself of that general benefit." He also said, "Christ came for the salvation of all, and undertook the redemption of all, inasmuch as He brought a remedy by which all might escape, although there are many who...are unwilling to be healed." Augustine (354-430): Though Augustine is often cited as supporting limited atonement, there are also clear statements in Augustine's writings that are supportive of unlimited atonement. For example: "The Redeemer came and gave the price, shed His blood, and bought the world. Do you ask what He bought? See what He gave, and find what He bought. The blood of Christ is the price: what is of so great worth? What, but the whole world? What, but all nations?" He also stated, "The blood of Christ was shed for the remission of all sins." Cyril of Alexandria (376-444): "The death of one flesh is sufficient for the ransom of the whole human race, for it belonged to the Logos, begotten of God the Father." Prosper (a friend and disciple of Augustine who died in 463): "As far as relates to the magnitude and virtue of the price, and to the one cause of the human race, the blood of Christ is the redemption of the whole world: but those who pass through this life without the faith of Christ, and the sacrament of regeneration, do not partake of the redemption." He also said, "The Savior is most rightly said to have been crucified for the redemption of the whole world." He then said, "Although the blood of Christ be the ransom of the whole world, yet they are excluded from its benefit, who, being delighted with their captivity, are unwilling to be redeemed by it." Quotations from the Reformers of the 16th Century Martin Luther (1483-1546): "Christ is not cruel exactor, but a forgiver of the sins of the whole world....He hath given Himself for our sins, and with one oblation hath put away the sins of the whole world....Christ hath taken away the sins, not of certain men only, but also of thee, yea, of the whole world...Not only my sins and thine, but also the sins of the whole world...take hold upon Christ." Philip Melanchton (1497-1560): "It is necessary to know that the Gospel is a universal promise, that is, that reconciliation is offered and promised to all mankind. It is necessary to hold that this promise is universal, in opposition to any dangerous imaginations on predestination, lest we should reason this promise pertains to a few others and ourselves. But we declare that the promise of the Gospel is universal. And to this are brought those universal expressions which are used constantly in the Scriptures." Other people involved to some degree in the Reformation who held to unlimited atonement include: Hugh Latimer, Myles Coverdale, Thomas Cranmer, Wolfgang Musculus, Henry Bullinger, Benedict Aretius, Thomas Becon, Jerome Zanchius, David Paraeus, and, as noted earlier, John Calvin. Quotations from Other Luminaries from Recent Church History Philip Schaff: "His saving grace flows and overflows to all and for all, on the simple condition of faith....If, by the grace of God, I could convert a single skeptic to a childlike faith in Him who lived and died for me and for all, I would feel that I had not lived in vain." B. F. Westcott: "Potentially, the work of Christ extends to the whole world." And "the love of God is without limit on His part, but to appropriate the blessing of love, man must fulfill the necessary condition of faith." A. T. Robertson: [The word "world" in John 3:16 - "For God so loved the world" - means] "the whole cosmos of men, including the Gentiles, the whole human race," and adds that "this universal aspect of God's love appears also in II Cor. 5:19; Rom. 5:8." MY CONCLUSION In this brief outline, we have looked at both sides of the debate regarding the extent of the atonement. I believe that when one considers all the scriptural evidence collectively, the correct view is unlimited atonement. Go Back to Downloadable Articles The above article is an example of the quality materials produced by Reasoning from the Scriptures Ministries. Write us for a full listing of other available resources: Reasoning from the Scriptures Ministries P.O. Box 80087 Rancho Santa Margarita, CA 92688

My sister in law rededicated her life to the Lord after watching Jesus Christ Superstar, which only shows that God can use anything to accomplish His purpose.

Cosby was convicted of a crime. The allegations against the attorney/judge have not been substantiated to the satisfaction of the investigations to even bring charges against him. He has not been convicted of anything. That is what people are complaining about. Nor can anyone be convicted by public opinion. There have to be facts that can be verified. All are also beyond the time limits since the alleged crimes took place. No girl in her right mind would return repeatedly to parties where she knew gang rapes were taking place. That is the most ridiculous of all the accusers' stories. I believe it is all a political sham because the progressives are afraid that he would thwart their subversion.

My two best childhood friends are liberals. The one who is a Christians gets very bitter sounding when she speaks of "Trumpers". So I avoid talking about politics with her. The other thinks she is a Christian but she is deceived. She cannot call Jesus "Lord" and she prays to her dead parents for help instead of to God. My heart breaks for her. Yes I do continue to love both.

I leave it to people who have the savy to check out those links safely. Some can check out IPs and learn about them first.

I tell people that I choose not to celebrate halloween, and that the candy is safer when it comes from businesses or churches. We received candy that had been injected by something at one time. If they continue to press me I tell them that I choose not to celebrate evil.

We also learn to "listen" to God. He answers and gives solutions to our problems through Scripture. He shows us how to respond to situations, what our attitudes should be, and how to allow His Spirit to work through us. He guides us daily. He gives us peace that passes understanding in the midst of turmoil. Col 3:12 AMP Clothe yourselves therefore, as God's own chosen ones (His own picked representatives), [who are] purified and holy and well-beloved [by God Himself, by putting on behavior marked by] tenderhearted pity and mercy, kind feeling, a lowly opinion of yourselves, gentle ways, [and] patience [which is tireless and long-suffering, and has the power to endure whatever comes, with good temper]. Col 3:13 Be gentle and forbearing with one another and, if one has a difference (a grievance or complaint) against another, readily pardoning each other; even as the Lord has [freely] forgiven you, so must you also [forgive]. Col 3:14 And above all these [put on] love and enfold yourselves with the bond of perfectness [which binds everything together completely in ideal harmony]. Col 3:15 And let the peace (soul harmony which comes) from Christ rule (act as umpire continually) in your hearts [deciding and settling with finality all questions that arise in your minds, in that peaceful state] to which as [members of Christ's] one body you were also called [to live]. And be thankful (appreciative), [giving praise to God always]. Col 3:16 Let the word [spoken by] Christ (the Messiah) have its home [in your hearts and minds] and dwell in you in [all its] richness, as you teach and admonish and train one another in all insight and intelligence and wisdom [in spiritual things, and as you sing] psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, making melody to God with [His] grace in your hearts. Col 3:17 And whatever you do [no matter what it is] in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus and in [dependence upon] His Person, giving praise to God the Father through Him.

God is so good!

1Co 7:25 Now concerning the betrothed, I have no command from the Lord, but I give my judgment as one who by the Lord's mercy is trustworthy. 1Co 7:26 I think that in view of the present distress it is good for a person to remain as he is. 1Co 7:27 Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be free. Are you free from a wife? Do not seek a wife. 1Co 7:28 But if you do marry, you have not sinned, and if a betrothed woman marries, she has not sinned. Yet those who marry will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that. 1Co 7:29 This is what I mean, brothers: the appointed time has grown very short. From now on, let those who have wives live as though they had none,1Co 7:30 and those who mourn as though they were not mourning, and those who rejoice as though they were not rejoicing, and those who buy as though they had no goods, 1Co 7:31 and those who deal with the world as though they had no dealings with it. For the present form of this world is passing away. 1Co 7:32 I want you to be free from anxieties. The unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord, how to please the Lord. 1Co 7:33 But the married man is anxious about worldly things, how to please his wife, 1Co 7:34 and his interests are divided. And the unmarried or betrothed woman is anxious about the things of the Lord, how to be holy in body and spirit. But the married woman is anxious about worldly things, how to please her husband. 1Co 7:35 I say this for your own benefit, not to lay any restraint upon you, but to promote good order and to secure your undivided devotion to the Lord. This is the context of your reply. Paul was in speaking in light of the persecution the church was enduring, which was getting much worse. He was enduring beatings and being left for dead, and he would have been distracted by having a wife with him in his travels. So his opinion was that people should not marry under those circumstances. However, it is always best that a person be saved and God be first in their lives, whether married or unmarried. And a marriage will always be better when we can love as God loves and forgive as God forgives. So I find your reply to be a little bewildering; we usually agree about the things of God. I too had a long marriage of 54 years. What I shared was what made our marriage work and what fulfilled our lives. I can't imagine a person making it through life without it revolving around God, let alone without having the wisdom and support that comes from God and from His word. Since my husband was not saved when we were first married and I was not a strong Christian when I was 18, I have had a taste of marriage without God as well as how totally changed we were when our lives were fully surrendered to and revolved around God. Perhaps marriages and people appear to have good lives and marriages without God. I totally disagree that we do not need Him in our lives.

A good marriage is God centered, just as a true Christian's life revolves around God. We deny our selfishness and live to please God. He in turn instructs us to please our spouses. It is a giving, caring relationship which often includes dying to our own wishes for the good of our best friend. A good marriage takes work. It requires two people to compliment each other instead of competing, having differing strengths and abilities. Someone said that way your kids get one good parent between the two of you. lol. It is teamwork, as stated. We choose to love, and love includes commitment to each other. We choose to commit. If all the women were as described, why did you marry them? God tells us to only marry Christians if we are Christians. The one woman who claimed to be a Christian was not fully committed to God or she would not have left Him. True Christians have surrendered to God for better or for worse, as we are to also do in a marriage. Marriage is to reflect a relationship with God. Eph 5:22 AMP Wives, be subject (be submissive and adapt yourselves) to your own husbands as [a service] to the Lord. Eph 5:23 For the husband is head of the wife as Christ is the Head of the church, Himself the Savior of [His] body. Eph 5:24 As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands. Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her, Eph 5:26 So that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the Word, Eph 5:27 That He might present the church to Himself in glorious splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such things [that she might be holy and faultless]. Eph 5:28 Even so husbands should love their wives as [being in a sense] their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself. Eph 5:29 For no man ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and carefully protects and cherishes it, as Christ does the church, Eph 5:30 Because we are members (parts) of His body. Eph 5:31 For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother and shall be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. [Gen 2:24] Eph 5:32 This mystery is very great, but I speak concerning [the relation of] Christ and the church. This is a recipe for a healthy, fulfilled life and marriage. But life itself is like a bed of roses--very thorny and full of hard times and trials. If a couple prays together aloud daily they meet those trials in the strength and wisdom of the Lord. Overcoming the hard times together is actually strengthening to a marriage.

Our state has ministers swearing and being vulgar to attract the unbelievers as well. People aren't dumb. They laugh at them for their decadence. It is part of the so called emergent church movement. This is another name for the apostasy, since most don't believe the Bible is God's inspired word, or that Paul's writings are scripture, and they pick and choose what others should believe. They don't seem to believe in the God of the Bible but one of their own imagination.

Some do, but I have only visited when cousins were looking for genealogical information. My parents souls are not there. I trust that they are with the Lord. Those that do visit should never speak to their dead loved ones or expect them to communicate in any way. That is communing with familiar spirits and is strictly forbidden in scripture. This sort of ancestor worship is rampant in Yugoslavia and Mexico, among other countries. It incurred the death penalty in the OT. Some cemeteries have no maintenance and each family must care for the area. I don't see anything wrong with keeping it presentable as we would any property.

Not fair. I would have chosen the lynx as my second choice. I like red tide in the right setting, but it can be a little overpowering; Like Canyon Trail as well.

Heb 1:14 ESV Are they not all ministering spirits sent out to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation? Angels serve and obey God. He sends them out on behalf of those who are being saved. The Holy Spirit convicts of sin, righteousness and judgement. He brings us to repentance and reliance on Jesus Christ for salvation.

He won't be seated in time to make a key vote in the Supreme Court. It is all a stall.

Unbelievers who do this often don't even realize it is wrong. The Holy Spirit is not yet convicting them of sin, righteousness and judgement. They don't understand that they are mishandling that which is sacred to us, and when they are informed often they do it just to irritate us. It is hard to ignore. Nevertheless, God demonstrates His love for us in that it is while we were yet sinners that Christ died for us. God looks beyond the offense to see their need. He has had pity on all of us. It is almost like having people bad mouth our family in our presence; it is very personal and wounds the Spirit of God within us. But all of us have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Unless we forgive and see their need, we cannot demonstrate Gods love. Anyone who has worked or lived among unbelievers has struggled with this. Joh 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

So to question is, does your unbelieving husband still wish to leave you? If he does, you should let him go.