Spock

I just read this post as you directed me to, Charlie. I must say, whether I agree with your interpretation or not, you did an excellent job making a good case for us to re-evaluate this passage to see if what we have been told is really truth! The verse 27 I believe seems to have a weird translation that is confusing on its own so I’m going to reread and restudy that Daniel passage in its entirety With an open mind and ask lots of questions. You are not the only voice that is saying what you are saying......but I like how you added the historical point of view of the RCC in this. I would put nothing past many of those popes to mislead.....after all, that is what they seem to specialize in over the past hundreds of years. thanks brother, cheers spock

I read where Israel has to cease any annexing of land in the West Bank so that surprised me.

Great video angel...thanks. im not sure we will be here to see this happen because it seems to me for Russia to be this emboldened to come into Israel they don’t have to worry about us coming to Israel’s aid....but like Don said, maybe under a Joe Biden administration the USA won’t care bout Israel at that time. So.....maybe we will be here, in a much weakened form.

Nope. Will this allow them to rebuild their Temple? Is it for 7 years?

Charlie, I just do t see how interpretation fits in the passage. Can you elaborate as to why and how you see Jesus in Daniel 9:27? Thanks

I’m still not convinced the SEALS haven’t been released yet. I’m still open to seeing seeing seals 1-5 as being released immediately when Christ ascended to heaven, and such riders have been doing their thing for the past 2000 years. Next up is the dreaded and very scary 6th seal. Upon the release of this seal, I’m thinking the rapture will also occur thereabouts.

?. Greetings friend. I apologize for bopping in and out. I read a lot...novels, scripture, bible prophecy books and articles....and sometimes all that reading means something has to go. Thanks for honoring me by missing me. I always come back though because of great people like you. cheers, spock back for now

Hey iamlad, if you don’t mind, I would like for you to make a case against my thinking below. Ready.... I’m thinking.... 1. The 4 horsemen and the 5th seal were released when Jesus ascended to heaven and have been going throughout the world for the past 2000. 2. The seals are basically the birth pains from Matthew 24 3. The Bible doesn’t say the church is exempt from the entire week of Daniel 70, only the wrath of God. Therefore, the only guarantee we have is that the church will be lifted out before the releasing of the trumpets and bowls. 4. Just because the 70th week is for Israel and Jerusalem doesn’t necessarily mean the church has to be gone before the week begins. 5. the confirmation of a covenant begins the 70th week, not the rapture. 6. the only guarantee the Bible says is that the church won’t be here during the great tribulation (second 3.5 years). The Bible doesn’t say anything about the entire week (7 years) being tribulation. 7. People who believe in a Pre tribulation rapture actually believe in a Pre 70th week rapture. Thus, they should change their label to Pre 70th week rapture instead. Looking forward to your responses. Thanks for doing this. It may help me sort out some confusion I’m experiencing. This may also lead to further thoughts and questions. spock

Omegaman, I see iamlad has responded quite a bit to your points, or were they my points? Anyhow, I would be interested in reading your rebuttals to my rebuttals if you are still interested in sharing such. Maybe you have already done this through your dialogue with iamlad, so I guess I will have to go back and read the three pages of responses since my last response. I’m on a vacation with my wife in Florida so I’m in and out a lot while here, but I will check back to see if you left any. cheers, spock

Greetings back at you Omegaman, yes, I seem to come and go a lot so if you don’t see me, it’s because I’m preoccupied with other priorities. your rebuttal to several of my points was very good, easy to follow along. I like your style. Well done. for now, there are a few points that popped up in my head as I was reading your points: 1. Yes, the disciples didn’t ask about the abomination and yes Jesus did reference it, but they may have known about it seeing that Jesus referenced them back to Daniel’s book. It would very difficult to reference the rapture back in the OT, although some have tried and maybe are right....Isaiah 26 being the best of what I’ve seen. 2. Rev 20:4 is interesting. You see this group as church members just like you and I...and maybe they are. But I see them as people who were not believers before the rapture and SUBSEQUENTLY became believers and as a result, knew not to take the mark of the beast and were willing to die in such belief. Don’t forget, an angel is going throughout the world telling people not to take the mark or else.....! I see no reason why you can’t have a group of “new believers” who didn’t make the rapture with the church. I also believe martyrs at anytime get acknowledged by our Lord, including this group. They may not have believed before the rapture, but they got their game on immediately after. Well done Trib saints! 3. Matthew 24:29-31: you seem to think that is the rapture, immediately AFTER the great tribulation....and maybe it is. But, it seems more like 2nd coming time to me, with rapture being earlier on. I don’t see a rapture of all believers just as Jesus is returning to earth. What is the purpose in lifting them up in the clouds just to immediately return to the earth? It doesn’t seem logical to me to do that, and you know I’m all about being logical. In addition, if all believers are caught up, then I guess everyone who is not taken up is an unbeliever....so do they immediately get a one way ticket to hell? Maybe I’m confused about the sheep and goat judgment of Matthew 25:31-46 but it seemed to me Jesus would be separating out the sheep and goats who I assume are living people with physical bodies, not just some resurrected people with immortal bodies and the others with physical mortal bodies. My last point on this passage....this Matthew passage has angels very involved in gathering people.....what does the classic and primary rapture passage say in 1 thes 4? Any mention of angels doing anything, including gathering people? Let’s see... For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words. The only mention I see of any angel is the “voice of an archangel“......I don’t see any other mention of angel activity going on in this rapture. So, again, I still don’t see Matt 24:29-31 as being THE RAPTURE. well, I will stop there for now...it’s passed 5:00 and I need to prepare my dinner before heading out tonight. Let me conclude with this thought....what do you see is the purpose of the GREAT TRIBULATION? I see it serving two purposes: a. Judge the world of earth dwellers (unbelievers) b. Purge Israel Your point is noted in that we don’t have to be lifted out of here for him to protect us, but I believe he will. It fits to me as I piece all of scripture together. I can see it doesn’t make sense to you so I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this. The fullness of the Gentiles has come in, Romans 11:25, and now it’s time for God to go back and deal with his other chosen people, Israel. We are the bride of Christ and we will be taken away to be married with the king while all hell is breaking out here on earth. The Jewish wedding is a great visual/model for one to ponder regarding the rapture of the church. It makes sense to me to see the bride returning to earth with Christ in Rev 19....having been there for a while when he promised he would come and get us in John 14:1-3. In conclusion, if people disagree on nonessential doctrines, such as this one, If they do it in love and respect, God is glorified, because Jesus told us to love one another as I have loved you. That is what is really important. So, please don’t think I need for you to see things as I see them, because I don’t. I enjoyed reading your perspective even though I don’t agree. Maybe you are right....maybe not! We shall soon see... spock out

Just curious, why don’t you believe the trumpet judgments are also God’s wrath? They sound pretty scary to me, especially the 5th and 6th trumpet.....but they all are frightening to me.

Bored in Heaven? wow....just curious, what do you think you will be doing with your life when you leave this planet? I’m expecting to be given an assignment here on Earth to help out Jesus while he is ruling here in the Millennial Kingdom. Don’t see this as being boring at all.

I guess if I had to be pinned down for a specific answer, TODAY I WOULD SAY THE 7th seal. why so? I guess that half an hour of silence in heaven to me might mean God is getting ready to flex his muscles and here come the wrath ! The 7th seal includes all the trumpets so I’m going with that as my final answer.....for today. how did I do?

True, it doesn’t hurt.... Honestly, I didn’t watch the YouTube video because like I said, I don’t put any stock in these....so just curious, Mind me asking....what did he say that was accurate?

When Jesus ascended to Heaven. I think it is very possible the 4 horsemen were released at that time, so technically the end times has covered 2000 years. I know many will probably throw rocks at me for saying this, but I think there is some merit for saying/believing such. for the record, I didn’t come up with this thinking on my own. David Lowe wrote a book called Earthquake Resurrection about 15 years ago that caught my attention and made a lot of sense to me as I pondered his interpretation of the word. I’m not 100% dogmatic here but I’m open to see things the way he sees them.

I liked your blog.....but I’m not sure why you believe the rapture is 2020. I hope you are right, but so far everyone who has made a prediction has been wrong......I guess there is always a first for everything. Cheers. spock

Lots of good replies here. This end times dude is not known as the Antichrist but as the Beast coming out of the abyss...see rev 13. i believe this: 1. He is human and when he comes onto the scene, he comes with impressive persuasive words. 2. I think he may be part Jewish, but not really sure. It says he rejects the God of his fathers in Daniel 11....that makes me think he may be part Jewish at least. Just not 100% sure 3. I believe there will be an assassination attempt on his life and he will be resurrected (not 100% sure he died, but I think he did). 4. At this point, this man will be possessed by some bad dude demonic spirit out of the abyss and at this point he becomes THE BEAST 5. this is when he does the abomination of desolation thingy 2 thes 2 and Matt 24 reference. i guess that is enough for now.... spock

For the record friend, in case you are keeping score....count me out here. I think you are wrong in your thinking and interpretation of scripture. Sorry... spock

Lol....thanks lad...I try to keep things simple.

I hate to be a party pooper but I don’t put much, if any stock, in people’s dreams. I know Joel 2 talks about dreaming dreams, but the context there is the great tribulation and second coming of Christ. Besides,have you listened to all these people who are saying God Gabe me this dream? Most, or maybe even all, have been wrong. Do you know how many have said the rapture would be this year or this feast or this month? Thus, because I can see so many dreams were false (not of God) I made it easy for myself to just say, “sorry, I’m not putting any stock in your dream...” I don’t think I’m quenching the Spirit here either....just sharing my personal belief based on my experience and knowledge of scripture. I’m sure God understands my being cautious is a good thing and that even he agrees....believe my word, first and foremost, you can’t go wrong with that. in love, spock

As much as I wanted to believe the generation from 1948 to 70 or 80 years later (2018-2028) will be the last generation which guarantees a 2nd coming before 2028, I too think that is a stretch that people want mostly because they want certainty and boundaries to fit things neatly. Those people use Psalm 90 to tell us a generation is 70-80 years but that psalm doesn’t say a generation is 70-80. It says a lifespan is 70-80 years. Since when has generation come to mean lifespan? Idk spock

Good morning Delight, love your enthusiasm... I will just share a few thoughts with you to ponder if you like. 1. the church is not destined to experience God’s wrath...promises made throughout NT. 2. so I feel 100% confident church won’t be in the final 3.5 years after the abomination. 3. I’m not 100% sure church is excluded from the first half of the 70th week because I’m not 100% sure when God’s wrath begins. 4. I’ve not seen anywhere in scripture that says the church is exempt from the entire week....just exempt from God’s wrath. 5. I do believe the first 5 seals have been released since Jesus’ ascension and next up is the 6th seal, but I’m not sure when that is released....before 70th week or sometime in the first 3.5 years....not sure. 6. I believe Matthews account of the Olivet Discourse is Jewish laden, not really meant for the church. The apostles asked three questions, none had to do with a rapture...I’m sure they didn’t even know what a rapture was. 7. the church is returning to earth with Christ in Rev 19 so to me that negates any post Trib theory 8. the Bible is clear telling us to look for Jesus Christ, not the Antichrist. I am.... 9. I think pre Trib may not be the best label for this doctrine because the Bible never talks about 7 years of tribulation, only 3.5 years (1260 days, 42 months, times, times and half a time). 10. 1 thes 4 and 1 cor 15 is all I need to know about a rapture....it is definitely happening and In my opinion definitely before God unleashed his wrath....after 6th seal. thats all for now. I will try to answer any questions you may have. Cheers. spock

Sorry friend, I can’t agree with you on this. What happened around 161 BC with Antiochus Ephipanes was a foreshadow of what will happen at the abomination of desolation that Jesus and Paul referenced in Matthew 24 and 2 thes 2. a literal temple I believe has to be built so that daily sacrifices can resume. But I do agree, we, the Church, are also the temple of God.

I browse to see if someone is saying something I haven’t heard and it makes a lot of sense. But for now, I feel pretty confident I have the timing of the rapture figured out: Either.... Door A: before the 70th week begins (pre Trib) or Door B: before the abomination of desolation (mid Trib) i will know which one is right when I either see the covenant being confirmed (mid Trib is right) or I see Jesus in the clouds first (pre Trib is right)

The main prewrath rapture timeline has the 6th seal somewhere about 5-6 years into the 70th week. They show the trumpets and bowls in the last 1.5 years. I find this very hard to believe as being accurate. It is certainly debatable as to when God’s wrath begins. It depends on what grammar experts you think is right. Does it begin after 6th seal or does it begin BEFORE 1st seal. I’ve read both sides of this debate regarding how to interpret Rev 6:17....”The great day of their wrath has come....” i completely disagree and find it comical as to how anyone could believe the trumpets are not God’s wrath. Are you kidding me?