Donibm

Seems like a step backwards if you ask me. Better to know what it means to be a CHRISTIAN rather than than what a group of Jews who reject the CHRIST of Christianity believe and follow. There is little difference from that and Islam, Jehovahs Witnesses, Mormons, etc when it comes to Judaism and Christainity. The OLD ways has perished. It is already antiquated. By the time you learn all their traditions and ceremonies and ritualistic oblations, etc, you'll probably be more confused then ever. Seems that you are distracted anyway. Seeking to know "hebrew roots" when you should see "Gods foundational Word" If you want to understand the New Covenant, just read. Seek not your understanding from men whom God called "blind" to their own Scriptures. Just read. The Spirit will guide. It is a whole different Universe. "Conversion" is even this lengthy, gruesome, process just to convert to Judaism ... assuming the "Rabbi" does not make strong attempts to turn you away first.

Hi, I dont' know. I've never called a saint a "pig" or a "dog'. But the context of the Scripture is clear - it is WASHED and returns to the MUD. You can distract yourself with "pig" if you want. Not a single saint was some 'clean or worthy' person. ALL of us were unclean, unworthy, filthy, naked and ashamed. Every single one of us. So, yes, effectively ... pigs. But WASHED. And Peter's point is that it returned to the mud. THAT is what he is focusing on ... clearly. 2) I don't recall suggesting that a believer never sins again after converting. But Scriptures are clear - he that COMMITTETH as sin, will be cast off as hypocrites are. This does not mean someone caught in a sin when Chrsit comes, it is talking about one who sins over and over and over - unrepentant and deliberate sins. Such a person has indeed fallen away, and will indeed be cast off into eternal damnation. Don't kid yourself. 3) You can believe that I err in the world not being able to taste of the Holy Spirit if you want ... but I do not err. Scriptures are clear: "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him:" (John 14) At no time, has the holy Spirit been promised to unbeleivers. At no time. Further, Peter is very clear and so are his writings: "For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire." Peter is clearly talking about those who repent, live for Christ, but fall away. NO SINNER can escape the pollutions of the world in the absense of repentance. 4) Hebrews is clearly talking about the Christian. "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame" It's so very clear. Hebrews 6:9 is talking about the saints who have NOT fallen. It does not include those who have. You have missed that too. 5) 1 John was talking about THAT group of men. There have been false Christians since the very beginning ... to this very day. There is a distinctive difference in a FALSE CHRISTIAN and a brother who have FALLEN BACK into the world. There is a very, very, very distinctive difference. John is NOT talking about the Brethren who were saved and fell back into the world, he is talking about the PSUEDOCHRISTIANS who have never been. Gnostics Nicolaitans Jehovahs Witnesses Hebrew Israelites Rasta ... other Christian groups (who I am deliberately not mentioning now). They aren't Christains to BEGIN with. Very different from the brother who was on fire for God, fell into temptation and pressure and trials and left the fold. Big difference. 6) I never suggested a middle ground. And the WAY to overcome is given, not a promise that all who repent will follow that and overcome. "REMAIN in Me, and I will remain in you" - Jesus I've already stated that "remain" is a present participle. You must CONTINUE to obey and serve. Jesus also made it clear in the same breathe that any who do not REMAIN, will be treated as an old branch - picked up and cast into the fire. Jesus made it clear that ALL who put their hand to the plow, and looks back, are not worthy of Him. This is not to say that they cannot find Salvation again. Even the prodigal son was called "dead" and then "alive again", but he was welcomed home also. But he HAD to return ... otherwise, he would have died in his sins ... and to die on ones sins IS to see damnation. ... you apparently didn't touch those Scriptures ... and I'm doing this from my job, RUSHING for the second time in this thread, ... I am not nearly exhausted the Scriptures that deal exactly with the SAINT who turned back to sin.

Because, men will be in their specific DISPENSATION. In other words, all souls from Adam to Moses will be in the Dispensation of their CONSCIOUS. Why? Because the law of Moses didn't exist. So, they cannot be judged by the Law. From Moses to Jesus, it is the Dispensation of the Law. That is how they will be judged. But what about the nations who never heard the Law of Moses? Well, they would stil be on the dispensation of the conscious. And the Law was givne to the Jew anyway, not the nations of the earth. Fast forward to Jesus, and the Dispensation of Grace. The Law no longer applies (though this does not mean reckless abandon of the "moral law"). We will be judged by the Dispensation of Grace - our obediance to Jesus. But what about people who are living right now and never heard the Gospel? Same thing - Dispensation of the Conscious. Then comes another Dispensation post the Rapture. It's not more "repent - turn to Jesus and be saved". Instead, it's "do not take the mark or bow to the image of the beast" So, they will be judged differently. They are not even among the uncountable number in Revelation, but are instead under the throne of God. Some people try to excuse themselves saying "not everyone has a conscious". Yes you do. We know this because ADAM ATE OF THE TREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL. God will Judge! Scriptures also say that in times past, God WINKED (excused) their sins, but no longer. NOW He calls all to repent through Jesus. But obviously if someone has never heard doens't know to follow. They will be Judged differently, and that is based on the dispensation that they lived in. ABEL will be judged different from Joshua. JOSHUA will be judged different from Peter. PETER and I will be judged the same. The person in the Tribulation may be judged differently from the Raptured saint. Why? Because of the different dispensations. But all are judged for SIN (not necessarily sinS [which is plural]). And that singular SIN is rejection of God ... whether its offending your conscious, disobeying the Law of Moses, rejecting the Gospel, or taking the mark of the beast. SIN ... is summed up in rejection of God. That is what men will be judged for. So, that is the root of Judgment, but the means will probably depend on their dispensation.

... interesting more how some Christians do not want to talk about the "ugliness of man" ... but thay very thing is riddled IN the Scriptures. However, I tend to disagree with "mainstream Christianity" in some regard concerning this. I understand the point, about sin, and about Gods plan on Salvation, but I believe the "round about" approah distracts from the core of it all. Sayings "Gods plan of Salvation" distracts attention from Jesus as the core of it all. IT IS ALL ABOUT JESUS Jesus is the core of every thing Biblical. Every Book in the Bible points to the Messiah, to our Lord. Every. Book. Adam Noah Enoch Job Abraham Moses Joshua Ruth the Prophets ... the entire Greek Scriptures. It's ALL about Jesus. Otherwise, yes, that is a nice thing to quote.

Deut 13:1-3 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for THE LORD YOUR GOD PROVETH {testing} YOU, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Romans 2:23-28 To Know God But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8 Is To Love Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Hebrews 12:2 Him For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. Romans 8:15 Yes! That's the ticket! It's ALL about Jesus.

Well, pray about it. I'm not a new convert. Not unlearned in Biblical things either. And I am careful to not speak things that are AGAINST the Word of God or His character. I'm very careful with His Word - I try to be - because he has esteemed His Word ABOVE all His names (so said king David). Gods Word is important to Him ... so be careful with it. Yes, mid-trib do believe in the deliverance. Just look at all the examples i provided, and know that there are more. The Book of Job, for example, says the same thing that Abraham said - "FAR BE IT FROM YOU TO DESTROY THE RIGHTEOUS WITH THE WICKED". So, even before Abraham was born Job knew the nature of God and couldn't believe that God would destroy the righteous with the wicked. However, there is one thing I want you to think about. Honestly think about it. And it is this... If the mid-trib rapture were true, wouldn't you KNOW when it was going to happen? Wouldn't you be able to simple prepare 3 1/2 years after the antichrist comes on the scene? In other words, I KNEW that World Cup was going to happen this year. I KNEW 4 years ago. I could have easily made plans to be in Brazil. So, if the antichrist were to come on the scene today, wouldn't it be easy to plan out 3 1/2 years from now to be super righteous just to catch the first train smoking to Zion? Do you see where I'm going with this? Now, ask yourself, how is this an UNKNOWN event? How is this a SURPRISE? How is this a THIEF IN THE NIGHT? Surely you can plan a vacation 3 1/2 years from now. Even people who turn 47 this year know that they would be 50 in THREE years time. So, if the antichrist were to come, you would KNOW when the Rapture would occur BECAUSE you can simply count forward 3 1/2 years ... right? Now ask yourself if that lines up with the Word of God which says NO MAN KNOWS. .... I hope the Spirit speaks Truth to you in this. You are right to know that God will deliver His own. That is very good. Now, you have to see the next step. Again, pray over it. I did. Took me years to understand it fully. But I understand now. Like, I asked about 666 in 1991. I didn't know until 2001. Yup. that's how it works sometimes. Took Paul 13 years to preach from his experience on Damascus. Daniel went into Babylon at the age of about 17, but was thrown into the lions den at about age 85. So yes, God is not so flash frier, but instead He is a slow simmer. Sometimes, things can take time. Other things, the Spirit reveals immediately. But you must offer up the initial prayer asking to know His truth. And even if you don't see it right now, just remember ONE thing. Of all that I have typed, there is only one thing I'd want you to remember: Hebrew 3:19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. Romans 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, There passages are more profound than how they appear. Why? Because it does not condemn them all due to sin. They were condemned due to UNBELIEF! Believe that He will redeem you and save you from the hour of Tribulation. I don't know what God will do with the Brethren who DISBELIEVE. Only God knows. But I know that God have given Israel as an EXAMPLE. So, if He punishes for unbelief, it's not like they can't say they weren't warned or didn't have any examples. Noah Job Abraham Lot Israel Pauls teachings etc I no longer believe I no longer trust I certainly do not assume ... I KNOW He will Consider a child. Even a child TRUSTS its father even in times of great punishment from the father. And Jesus said that we must be "like unto a child". it is SAFE to do as commanded, and trust God. You do. You believe in the deliverance. That is key. But now I want you to consider the things I presented to you so that you may know WHEN the deliverance comes. ... and I'm not a great guy. :-) Far from it. I'm just passionate about Gods Word. I love the Brethren and I'm so very afraid for the Church with all the mess i see. I'm afraid for my son growing up in this wicked world. I'm fearful, knowing that God is ANGRY, not sitting on His throne happy and jolly. Angry at the wicked AND the righteous as a matter of fact (even Israel has seen His wrath). I hide in the shadow of the Lord Jesus Christ. Knowing I'm not perfect, wishing that I were, knowing I'm guilty, knowing all I seem to do (good things) are INADEQUATE, but I keep looking to the Christ, saying "Lord, You know." And i hide in Him, for I know that the Father's wrath will pass over me ... WHEN HE SEES THE BLOOD OF THE SON. That is the key. When I see the BLOOD, My wrath will pass over you. Stay in God Kingdom. See things as He sees them - hate the things that corrupt Stay in the Word REMAIN in Jesus Acknowledge you faults and sins ... for God cares nothing for offerings, sacrifices, gifts, oblations ... but a BROKEN SPIRIT and the CONTRITE HEART is the sacrifice that is sweet smelling in His nostrils. A giving heart. Know the things that He hates Know the things that He loves Fast Pray Worship This is the road to seeing His glory. I know it.

Let me know if your are successful with it or not ... cause i think I'll need it.

Oh, you'll find it ... primarily in African American and "socially conscious" online threads. Notice how there are more "racially motivated" movies coming out (7 Years a Slave, 42 and Butler)? Amid the mess of George Zimmeran/Travon Martin ... and John Spooner/Darius Simmons ... and the female who shot "in the air" against her former husband (she did not shoot int he air, the police report shows she shot AT the man as he stood their with his kids) ... and this shooting with loud music. Florida is backwards. Stephen Wonder said he will never perform in Florida until it overturns its Stand Your Ground law ... and African Americans are starting to view it as "they want to shoot us and get away with it? Fine. We're gonna kills some of them in the process." All these slavery and racist movies aren't helping a whole lot either. So, what am I saying? I'm saying that there is ... something ... brewing in the not to distant future. It is a kettle on the stove that is a slow simmer. All is quiet right now, but as soon as you turn your back to go outside, or use the bathroom, the kettle starts to whistle. Too late! The warning has sounded while you weren't paying attention! Civil war? Chaos? Another LA riot? Who knows... All I know is that Florida needs to get its act together. I mean, geesh, at least get the VOTING SYSTEM working as it should! Then maybe stop taking 2-4 years to fix a 400 meter street. Florida is one upside down, backwards, State. But, I'm seeing a lot of corruption, more than ever. They want God and the Church and the Bible and prayer out of everything. And they want to replace us with evolution, dinosaur cartoons, "free thinking" (no, they really aren't THAT smart). Do you see the C-Saw effect? We go down as violence, corruption, immorality, social injustice, godlessness goes up. Is there ANYONE in these threads whose souls are as grieved by this world as my own?

It is very ironic how the problem among the 1st century believers was Jews trying to force Gentiles into becoming Jews in order to be saved. Ever since then, Gentiles have been trying to force Jews to become Gentiles in order to be saved. If you don't believe me, spend some time with Jews who have come to faith in Messiah, and ask them how [Gentile] Christians make them feel. Who is putting a wedge against who? 1) You have minimized the total event to the first century ... and that makes the core of your response a little off. Yes, they did it in the Scriptures - we can clearly see this. But what about the Ebionites of the 3rd Century who did the same thing? Fast forward to the Spainish Inquisitions that outlawed Jews who were trying to "Judaize"? That was over 1,000 years post the first Century. What about Hellenistic Judaism? What about Messianic Jews of 2014? Don't they also demand that the Sinai Law be observed in ADDITION to repentance? (please do not confuse them for "Christian Jews") 2) There have been some silly things done, yes, I agree. There has been much unwarranted hatred towards Jews, I agree. But I've never heard of Gentiles trying to make Jews become "Gentiles". In fact, the reverse is true. After all, a Gentile to this very day can go through the lengthy process of converting to Judaism, and upon conversation, that person is henceforth called a "Jew". No blood ties to Jacob. No genealogy at all. ... but "Jew"? How does that work? On the flip side, I've never heard of Jews trying to be forced to become Gentiles. 3) Suffice to say that I live in Fort Lauderdale, a highly dense population of Jews. I had a Jew in my class actually. I work with Jews. For the greater part, the religious and non-religious ones tend to keep to themselves with their own schools, shops, restaurants, etc. This is what I know and see. But the CHRISTIAN Jews are just that - Christians. Fellow believers in Jesus. There is no special requirement for them. There is no separate door for them to enter. No different Gospel. There is no difference in that brother and the American or the islander or the African or the Canadian or the Cuban or the... My Church is multicultural. We are ALL brethren in Christ. If they want to attend Jewish feasts and ceremonies, hey, have fun with your countrymen. Nothing wrong with that. But, I suppose I understand what you are attempting to say. I mean, you have "Judaizers" right IN the Church against other Christians (usually the weak and carnal who speak the loudest, but knowing the least). 4) I stick by what I typed. I said that "ALL MEN" (Jew and Gentile alike) need to be careful to not drive a wedge between the flock, and I meant it, for there is ONE Flock and there is ONE Gospel and ONE Shepherd and ONE Door. Who is of Paul? Who is of Apollo? There is neither Jew nor Gentile to God. Grafted. Broken off. Added in again. Adopted (with full benefits). Adopted even to His good pleasure. And that is key. TO HIS GOOD PLEASURE. If God is pleased with it all, I say be careful to not profain what God is pleased with, lest a Judgment be bought on the offender. That is really the only and main point I was trying to make.

Wow. Calm down or you will blow a head gasket. 1) OK. 2) I am quite well aware that the focus in Revelation is on Israel. You seem to have read a great deal into what I wrote which wasn't there. Are you saying that no one gets saved during the Tribulation except Jews? I've actually heard others say that and I don't see how you can square that with scripture. Since the Antichrist is not here now, and we are not in the Tribulation now, why would we need to know exactly what the 666 points to now? Is it wrong to search for the answer? No. But why would there be a pressing need to have the knowledge now? Are you going to have to go to work tomorrow and tell your boss whether you will take the Mark of the Beast or not? And I never once implied that only that generation would understand. I don't believe that we will have full understanding until that time comes. 3) I personally believe that the end-time one-world religion will be a really bad amalgam of some kind of ecumenical nightmare including Catholicism, Islam, New Age and Emergent church. Even so, you are telling me you can start your hypothesis in a vacuum not knowing all the other theories when it comes to this particular issue? I've been studying Revelation since I was a kid, i.e. the early 70's and I have never, ever felt this pressing need to figure out exactly who the 666 pointed to because I have seen so many people labeled with it in that time that it numbs my brain. And I never used the words "delusion" or "lie," so you might want to back yourself up a bit. 4) Out of context? Matthew 24 is out of context? It isn't about the end times? It isn't about the Tribulation? I've studied hermeneutics, so I am not one to just cherry-pick verses and slap them down out of context. So an accusation that passages from the Olivet Discourse are out of context when discussing the Tribulation is pretty amusing. Your series of letters afterwards are aimed at . . . what? I'm pretty stupid. You might have to explain your theories to me in greater depth, because I am a low-grade moron and I just parachuted in to this whole Christian thing. I’m not upset. Don’t let a firm position come across as being upset. I’m a Military Advisor, I’ve dealt with much “worst” … and I don’t anger easily. 2) Sorry, I didn’t intend to read into anything. You typed “Christians” and I merely asked where they are mentioned in Revelation. I personally don’t see Christians during the Tribulation at all. Nor do I see the “Gospel message” being preached in Revelation. All I see, during the Tribulation, is “do not take the mark of the beast.” I see nothing about “repent, turn to Jesus and be saved.” So, if we can, let’s return to the core of my response, which is asking you to please show me where the Christians are. You didn’t address what I typed. No, I’m not saying that only Jews make it. And, it’s hard for me to call them “getting saved” because again, there is no mention about the Gospel or repentance, only a command to not take the Mark of the Beast or worship the image. Simply put, the dispensation of Grace is over. Yes, the 144,000 are only Jews. But that does not mean that others will not resist the antichrist or flee. Problem is, Revelation says three times that mankind will NOT repent. What say you to that? What’s your opinion on it? [[since the Antichrist is not here now, and we are not in the Tribulation now, why would we need to know exactly what the 666 points to now? Is it wrong to search for the answer? No. But why would there be a pressing need to have the knowledge now? Are you going to have to go to work tomorrow and tell your boss whether you will take the Mark of the Beast or not?]] Revelation says that it is for the wise to know, to figure it out. Generations do not matter. All clues point to the Vatican, and the 666 also points to the heart of that exact place – the Pope (mantle). It all agrees with itself. Scripture agreeing with Scripture. I do not suggest that there is a pressing need, or that it is important. Really, I don’t need to know Revelation as it does not apply to my Salvation, but lovers of Truth are just that – seekers and studiers of the Word of God. And even as Revelation suggest, there is something special about studying and understanding the Book. [[3) I personally believe that the end-time one-world religion will be a really bad amalgam of some kind of ecumenical nightmare including Catholicism, Islam, New Age and Emergent church. Even so, you are telling me you can start your hypothesis in a vacuum not knowing all the other theories when it comes to this particular issue? I've been studying Revelation since I was a kid, i.e. the early 70's and I have never, ever felt this pressing need to figure out exactly who the 666 pointed to because I have seen so many people labeled with it in that time that it numbs my brain. And I never used the words "delusion" or "lie," so you might want to back yourself up a bit.]] I don’t understand your first question. It doesn’t matter what you felt or didn’t feel. It is inconsequential. I feel the way I feel, but I’ve never asked or demanded someone else to feel the same. Why would I? If you are not pressed to know, you are not pressed to know. I did … from the moment I read it. And yes, I’ve seen a host of things apply to 666, including that Russian President, to barcodes, to the rapper Nas … but none of them match to totality of the Scriptures when looking at ALL the clues (rightfully dividing). And yes, Daniel goes hand in hand with Revelation, and Daniel also points to the Vatican/Rome. However, since you were never really interested, why now challenge someone who has? Does a heart surgeon try to tell a Dentist how to do her job … just because they are both in the medical field? Best thing for you to do is to show how they are all wrong, or at least look at what I’ve presented and consider them. Simply responding isn’t study. You’ve again, not done what I requested. You are evading. You said that anyone can apply it to something and I asked you to PROVE IT by applying the clues to Islam or anything else … and you have not done so. I have, and continue to [[4) Out of context? Matthew 24 is out of context? It isn't about the end times? It isn't about the Tribulation. I've studied hermeneutics, so I am not one to just cherry-pick verses and slap them down out of context. So an accusation that passages from the Olivet Discourse are out of context when discussing the Tribulation is pretty amusing.]] You apparently forget what you posted. You’re exact words were: “Jesus Himself tells us that false Christs and false prophets will appear and even perform miracles that would fool the elect, but what He says at the end is the most important: "If that were possible." It is not possible to fool the elect.” What does that have to do with THEE (singular) ANTICHRIST? Remember, you are responding to me, not me to you. You are piggy backing off of what I typed, not vice versa. I am not talking about false teachers. I am talking about THEE Antichrist … and you therefor are out of context. If you want to post a Scripture about THEE ANTICHRIST, post the ones that deal with him specifically, such as the son of perdition (singular), not those who are of the spirit of antichrist (plural). You said you’ve studied hermeneutics, and that you’ve studied Revelation since the 70’s … did you not? Where? When? [[Your series of letters would first of all imply that if someone who knew Jesus as their Savior was faced with this choice that they are so stupid, they wouldn't know what they were doing, and that the Holy Spirit cannot give them the strength to endure hunger and torture. Are you one of those people who believe that Christians have to go through the Tribulation to somehow be "tested?"]] You have ignored what I typed, and have not answered … again. You seek contention. I am merely making dialog … and you are evading each step of the way. You insert much, while accusing of insertions. No. Christians will not endure the Tribulation at all. I’m one of THOSE sorts. [[i'm pretty stupid. You might have to explain your theories to me in greater depth, because I am pretty dense and I just parachuted in to this whole Christian thing.]] No. They are merely questions. Very basic and simple questions. You can default and offend yourself if you wish. I neither suggested nor implied that you or anyone else was 'stupid' (albeit "childish" comes to mind after reading that response). I will not adjust or retype my questions. They are elementary - hardly academic. You can address them, or ignore them at your own pleasure. I asked to see what your answer would be … but you did not answer. That is fine. Nothing from nothing still leaves nothing ... and nothing, I've found, is a whole lot from someone that has claimed to have studied hermeneutics. Christians will not endure the Tribulation. I don't think. I don't believe. I know.

You err ... not knowing the Scriptures. God told them to "remember" a great many things, and they did not. God was also sick of their Sabbaths - said so Himself. It is an INSERTION to suggest that the 4th command was not mentioned because they kept the Sabbath. Again, a result of not knowing the Scriptures. The Hebrew Scriptures even show how the Jews murmured when entering such observances, saying that they couldn't wait for it to be over to get back to life as normal. And even when the JUDAIZERS tried to tell the early Christians to do what the Jews did, including observing the Sabbath, the Church made it clear that "WE GAVE NO SUCH COMMAND" ... going as far as listing things that they were to observe, and even though it would have been a perfect opportunity to list the Sabbath ... they did not. "Sabbath is made for MEN, not man for the Sabbath" - Jesus "I fear for you because you observe days, months, years ..." - Paul The Church BEGAN on a Sunday The Church continued to gather on the eight day/first day, which is a Sunday They Church gave tithes and offers on those days, which is part of worship. In four different places of Early Church writings (before the Vatican existed), we see that they gathered on Sunday, calling it also the "Lords Day" - which is the day of His resurrection. So, we not only see this in Scripture, we see it in history as well. However, if someone wants to worship on Saturday, that is perfectly fine. Scriptures make both sides of the coin perfectly fine.

Alien, See Deut 13:1-3 Also, Psa 34:8 EDIT: "proveth" means He is "testing" you.

BTW, to support what I typed, in another thread there is discussion on Prophets post the resurrection of Jesus. I appear to be the only one who mentioned Agabus. But what he said is profound. Here's why... All Prophets said, "thus saith the LORD" or "God told me to tell you..." But Agabus said, "Thus says the HOLY SPIRIT..." He is ultimately saying that the Holy Spirit IS God! Its so interesting how we miss such subtle and key things. So again, denying the Holy Spirit IS to deny God. Cursing the Holy Spirit IS to curse God. Same thing for Jesus. But it is not the Father who calls men to repentance. It is not the Son who calls men to repentance. It is the SPIRIT who calls men to repentance. So, if you deny that call ... the Scripture will apply to you ... at the moment of your death. See also Psalm 2. Notice how that is a Triune passage? Do you see the Father talking about His Son? Do you see the Son talking about Himself? Now see the part that says "Kiss the Son"? That is the SPIRIT telling us to worship the Son. So again, it is the SPIRIT who calls us to repentance ... though they are all equally God. To blaspheme (deny) the Spirit ... is to certainly see Hellfire ... IF you die in an unrepented state. Strike THREE! ... because there will not be a fourth one to come and redeem/call you. The Holy Spirit is the LAST to come.

They are wrong. You CAN be forgiven. And for you gung-ho type Christians, before you scream me a "heretic", allow me to explain. There are THREE who bear record in Heaven. Strike 1: God dwelled with mankind through Israel Strike 2: Jesus, Emanuel, dwelled with mankind. Strike 3: The Comforter is come. If you reject His call to repentance, there is no one left!! There is nothing beyond the THIRD PERSON to call you to repentance. Basically, this means you will miss the boat if you fail to repent. Forget about thinking you will "convert" post the Rapture. Revelation makes it clear in three different places that mankind will NOT repent. Why not? Because men cannot repent unless CALLED to repentance. And if the Spirit is raptured with the Church, there is nothing to draw you to God. THAT is why it cannot be forgiven. It is talking about those who die in their sins. What is the difference between cursing God and cursing the Holy Spirit? Absolutely nothing. They are ONE. What is the difference in speaking ill about God in the Flesh (Jesus) and dishonoring the Father? Jesus said there is no difference. So, cursing God is cursing God. It is like me disrespecting your family name - you are ALL the target. The key is, if you DIE IN YOUR SINS because you refused the call of the Spirit ... you can never find forgiveness because there is only Judgment behind deaths door. Of course you can be forgiven while in life. Of course you can repent. The very reason anyone is sorry for cursing God is the move of the Spirit. But, if you continue to oppose God and you continue to deny the call, and if you die in your sins, that Scripture will certainly be accurate. You will never find Salvation post death. This may be hard for some of you to understand. Pray about it. I tell you the Truth.

A prophet prophesies ... and they come true. However, speaking of what is ALREADY WRITTEN is not exactly a prophecy. And even if a prophecy comes true, if that person speaks err over the Word of God, they are to be ignored regardless of the prophecy. That is the Law of Moses. Old men will prophecy Young men will dream dreams Seems to me, and I have no reason to say you haven't experienced those things, that you are a DREAMER. Oh, and there is a little fact behind Prophets - none of them were "worthy". None of them were sinless. None of them were "special" NONE OF THAT IS IMPORTANT ANYWAY. What is important, is that you do as you must so that your name is written in the Lambs Book of Life ... even as Jesus said. Gifts are less important than the FRUITS of the Spirit, for even the antichrist will work mighty miracles (lying wonders). I don't trust in "gifts". Even the Scripture says, "The gifts of the Lord are without repentance." In other words, He doesn't make mistakes and He doesn't take them back. LOL A person could be living foul, but still healing people or casting our demons ... but heading straight for Hellfire. I wouldn't call what you describe a prophet because you have not prophesied, nor have you endured the Law of Moses to TEST a prophet (believe me, I've very good at testing self-professing Christians [Nicolaitans]), now have you shown prophecies or the fulfillment. What you are describing are closer to DREAMS then prophesies.

Essentially ... love everyone perfectly. And, does LOVE have measures? If you love, you will not deliberately harm ... and if you harm, you will make amends ... and you will care for ... and you will encourage ... and you will desire their well being ... and you will give .... Do you not feed yourself? Do you not clothe yourself? Do you not tend to your wounds? Do you not desire better for yourself? You love yourself more than you know. Maybe its the exterior things that causes you to think that you don't - popularity, looks, fitness, finances, neighborhood, lack of contentment, etc. All is vanity. And those who seek such things are typically those who find damnation in the end, not life. "Blessed are those who weep now, for they shall be comforted" - Jesus Love God. See His heart towards you. How much He desires you, how He wants you to go through the fire and pains of life just so that you can enter His Kingdom refined, as pure gold ... or whatever He allows. Love Him first ... and He will show you that your are a son of Adam, a daughter of Eve ... and ultimately, a child of God.

Kingdom, Well, I'm not trying to force you to see it as we do. So, I won't keep pressing. Instead, I'll leave you to decide whose report you will believe. Will you stand with Abraham, who PLEASED God through His faith, knowing and proclaiming that God will NOT destroy the righteous along with the wicked. ... or will you stand with your own understanding of what you think to be God destroying the righteous and the wicked? I will stand where is it SAFE. lol It is SAFE to see that Israel was sparred because she was on one side and Egypt is on the other, but in 2014, it is not so. We are intermingled. It is SAFE to trust in the Blessed Hope It is SAFE to see that the One who restrains (Holy Spirit) must be REMOVED before the antichrist comes, and how can the HS be removed when He has come for the SAINTS? Will He abandon the Bride of Christ? Never. It is SAFE to see the Scripture that says Israel did not enter, not because of SIN, but because of ... UNBELIEF!! It is SAFE to stand with Noah, who was "raptured" from harms way. It is SAFE to stand with Lot, who was not only encouraged, but dragged out of harms way. It is SAFE to stand with Enoch, the SEVENTH FROM ADAM (7 = 7000th year period of Creation, which is the Rapture?) It is SAFE to stand on Revelation that clearly shows an uncountable number in Heaven while Tribulation is going on in the earth. It is SAFE to stand on Jesus' words of praying to be counted worthy to escape (not "endure") that time. It is SAFE to stand with Abraham, our father of faith, who pleased God in his belief, that God will not destroy the wicked with the righteous - see Genesis 18:25 "That is NOT in Your nature to do such a thing! Since when have You been the sort to slay the righteous with the wicked!? Since when have You treated the righteous as if they were on par with the wicked!? When did that become part of Your Character!? You are the Judge over all the earth! Shouldn't You judge and behave in a proper maner!?" Oops. Abraham spoke sharply didn't he? He sure did. He probably slapped his hands over his mouth in astonishment as soon as he finished speaking the words. Like "O crap! Did I just say that ... TO GOD!?" And you can see in the following Scriptures, Abraham is increasingly afraid to speak to God, not that God showed any agitation, but that Abraham must have realized that he spoke to God in a condescending tone. I personally believe that Abraham could have talked God down to ONE ... and God would have sparred the city for the sake of that one. How do I know? Well ... Lot was dragged out ... wasn't he? Course he was. And that was less than 10. So, God did exactly what Abraham was trying to bargain for (spare Lot) and He said "for the sake of TEN I will spare the city" God never told Abraham that He would spare Lot. He did that automatically. He WILL deliver His people. And, there is no odd between you and I in this anyway. Mid-Tribe also believes in the ESCAPE. The Deliverance.

Izzel, I know what you're saying, but I'm saying to you that the SAINTS do not rule WITH a rod of iron. ONLY the Messiah does. I've presented Psalm 2. I've also shown you that Revelation is a QUOTE from Psalm to, and is therefor attributed to Jesus, NOT the saints. How can I go into the Greek and translations if I can't get you to see this in the English language? Well, pray over it. It'll come to you in time ... or ... if you simply take the time to read it. What is the rod of iron? His authority. He is God the Son. Do you think God needs to carry a rod? No, of course you don't. It means He will RULE the nations and His Law shall be sound. It also means His dominion will be unchallenged. It means that, just as iron cannot be bent easily, His rule will be firm. And BTW, to rule also means to dispense mercy. It basically means He will be in COMPLETE CONTROL. Complete authority. It's so very easy to understand. VERSE 27 IS A DIRECT QUOTE FROM PSALM 2. Psalm 2 is certainly, certainly NOT talking about the saints. It is painfully, painfully clear that Psalm 2 is talking about the MESSIAH.

A ... baby? Then how did he eat? How did he talk? How did he even move? On whose breast did he suckle? How did he manage to name the animals? They were not in "glorified" bodies, so he needed to eat ... right? And since death did not exist, to age means they were experiencing a road to an end ... but that is not possible in deathlessness God CREATED [man] from the earth. God would have created what would have been immediately functional, not a wailing baby that He would have had to nurse for a few years. Age doesn't matter anyway. Since the hand of the Perfect Being created them, Adam and Eve were the most perfect of Gods human beings. Perfect in body, looks, hair, eyes, teeth, smile, ... everything. I can't see how a baby, that cannot even wipe its own feces from its bumpy fits the bill of perfection.

Who said that the Law of Moses has only 1 Sabbath?\ The Law of Moses is not the "10 Commandments", it is the 613 Mitzot. Basically, if the 10 Commandments were the Law of Moses, then the Law would not exist in the first FIVE BOOKS ... right? The 10 were written by Gods own hand and given to Moses. The other 603 were ORALLY given by God to Moses. ... and so the Law of Moses is 613 ... not a mere 10. I can't copy and paste from my home computer, but if you visit www.letusreason.org -> world religions -> 7th day Adventist ... you'll find some good information on the Sabbath(s). It is a page I used to use a long, long time ago. I still visit there for certain column and article quotes ... especially the scholars who are against the renderings of the Jehovahs Witness "bible". Now concerning feasts. First, consider that the SABBATH IS A CEREMONIAL LAW. Second, consider that FEASTS ARE A DIETARY/CEREMONIAL LAW. There are no ceremonial or dietary laws that have ever damned anyone to Hellfire. No one goes to Hell for eating a pig. lol No one goes to Hell for worshipping on a Thursday either. Jesus made it plainly clear that nothing that enters your mouth for food can defile you. It simply goes in and you poop it out. He said what comes OUT of the mouth is from the heart (lies, anger, deception, distortion, murder, rage, etc) and that is what defiles you. Jesus also said that the Samaritans worshipped on the mountain, and the Jews in the Temple, but God sought TRUE WORSHIPPERS. So, a day means nothing. But the heart of truth and spirit mean everything. And God Himself is sick of feasts. Why go BACKWARDS? Why go back to the things that the Jews did and angered God anyway? What does God get out of your glutteny? Those feasts were for THEM, not you Gentiles. And they murmured anyway - saying "when will these days be over with so we can get back to living normal lives, buying and selling and profiting?" God heard their murmuring. In fact, God is so sick of CEREMONIES, He didn't even call them HIS days! He called them "YOUR Sabbaths, New Moons, feasts..." God actually disowned them. Then He clearly stated what He desired - justice! Defend the poor! Provide for the fatherless and the widows! Learn to do good! So again, why go backwards? Enclosing (and I am leaving out a ton of things). The MORAL LAW remains. Those are the only things that damn the soul. Lying. Murder. Lust. Sexual sin. Profane things. Drug use. etc. Of the "10 Sayings" ... or, more commonly known in the English language, the "10 Commandments", only 9 of them are restated in the Greek Testament. The 4th ... is absent. Why? Because only the 4th (Sabbath) is a ceremonial Law, the rest are MORAL Law. And the reckless abandon of ignoring the moral law ... leads to damnation. Eternal damnation.

Day of the Lord = Lords Day You've got to look at ALL occurrences. It has more than one application ... much like "Sabbath" does not always mean THEE Sabbath we are accustomed to (there are several Sabbaths).

I think the greatest example ... is Job. God always knows the end from the beginning. He is not looking for an answer ... but giving you an OPPORTUNITY. An opportunity to do what? To glorify Him, liberate your soul, and to shame your accuser! Also, it's not that we are forbidden to test God, for the Scriptures clearly say to test Him in Malachi 3:10. Clearly, o "taste and see" the goodness of the Lord. TRY God. But do not TEMPT Him. It's all about context and application ... and the desire of your heart. I can test God through obedience. Like, if He PROMISED something, I could put myself in discomfort so that I can LEARN His faithfulness, and SEE His power. But, if I do something because I want to gain from it, well, He may hide His face from me. Be wise about it.

That "Bible" movie was the worst I've ever seen in my life. I didn't watch the Jesus part. Opened my eyes to this Nation when I heard how so many people loved it. Gross errors. I saw this "Son of God" preview. I thought of that crap movie immediately. No way I'm giving it my $$$ Sure, Noah is "just a movie". I dont' think its meant to be "Biblically descriptive". In fact, I know its not. So, I'll probably enjoy it as "just a movie" But this freakiest 'Son of God' movie? Not a chance. Muslims would never tolerate this if it were Mohamed. ... but ... WE ... are not Muslims.

Interesting thread. ... something I have been considering. Yes, love the Word of God ... but do not forget to love the One who OWNS it while you are at it.