AdHoc

The teaching that Adam died spiritually was developed because men ASSUMED that the Sabbath was bounded by the "evening and the morning". They had no option but to develop this notion. But the spirit of a man cannot die, and there is not a single verse or narrative in the whole Bible of a spirit dying. Added to this, the notion of "spiritual death" presupposes that Adam had spiritual LIFE, which is patently not the case. He never ate from the Tree of Life. 22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: This verse is very telling. The word "also" grammatically indicates that it would have been an additional thing. And it patently says that if he had eaten of it, he would NOT be able to die. The idea of dying spiritually is a man made idea to cover for not defining the Sabbath's length properly. That we posses dual natures is only AFTER rebirth. It is only believers who "have partaken of the divine nature" (2nd Pet.1:4).

Thanks for the reply and the nice comments. I will cut directly to your main point. Consider this; When Thomas saw our Lord Jesus he no doubt believed. But he had no faith. He was "faithless" says the Lord Jesus in John 20:27. And this is because the definition of Faith in Hebrews 11:1 depends, as its substance "things NOT SEEN". 1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. No doubt Israel will believe that the one they pierced is their Messiah and that they have truly messed up. And that Israel will revere Him after that is not in question. But that is NOT FAITH. The sequence that scripture gives for the main battles is Armageddon which includes His visit to Bozrah to settle the score with Edom. Then, with Gentile military and political power crushed, our Lord sets up His Kingdom on earth as Daniel predicted. It is an everlasting Kingdom, but the first 1,000 years are set aside (i) on the earth under its present regime of the Nations still in their un-resurrected bodies, (ii) summer and winter with harvests, (iii) a rule of the rod of iron, and (iv) a period of "subduing". At the END of the 1,000 years, a whole new generation of men and women will have been born to the Nations, who never knew Satan's regime. The time will have come for God to test them, plus the Kingdom that Christ has set up, with its Capital Jerusalem. Satan is loosed and he choses Magog and God as his vehicle to attack Jerusalem. The grammar is unequivocal; Revelation 20:7–8 7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. If you go back to Ezekiel 38 and 39 and write down the circumstances of Israel, you will see sharp contrasts to the Jerusalem of Armageddon and Jerusalem when the 1,000 years of peace have had their effect. This will also explain why primitive weapons are used. All weapons factories in the Millennium will produce agricultural equipment for the great harvests and because there is no war (Isa.2:4, Am.9:13). Go well brother.

A fine appreciation of a very valid suject. What can we deduce from all these barren woman? What is the common thread.? The common thread is this; For God to change the course of history - and to fulfill His plan, He needs a situation in which HIS INTERVENTION is necessary. That is, God does not leave things to chance. He takes responsibility for His Words and Actions. In the case of Abraham and Sarah a son by the efforts of Abraham's flesh is not good enough. God refuses Ishmael (but blesses him), and His Spirit must interfere with Sarah's womb (barren by circumstance and barren by age). The line of Jesus must be by this line for "in Isaac shall your seed be called"! Again, the end of his life brings "blindness" to Isaac. Rebekah is well advanced. Issac has no offspring. What will become of the promises by blood-Covenant made to Abraham that in Isaac Christ's seed will be called? God wants it clear that the situation needs HIS INTERVENTION. In Rachel's case, God has, in His foresight, planned to bless the world, and Israel, via Joseph. He will raise up a young man to rule over His brethren and all the world, except Pharaoh, FOR THEIR BENEFIT. His mother is barren and requires GOD'S INTERVENTION. And so the pattern continues. God wants to deal with the Philistines who made life ahrd for His people. God intervenes. God wanted all firstborn of Israel to be the priests. They failed, so He raised up Levi. Levites failed so He raised up the Nazerite. The Nazerites failed so God raised up the prophets. The first great prophet who was to annoint kings and admonish them was a decisive moment in Israel's history. For this, no normal man is used. God INTERVENES in the barren womb. And then, that momentous event of the incarnation and presentation of Jesus - the Son of God - needs a special man. God INTERVENES and John Baptist is born to a barren womb. He is the "greatest born to a woman" except for those who are born by the Spirit for the Kingdom. And then, so that Jesus will not carry Adam's nature, and be infused with the nature of God from birth, God INTERVENES with a virgin - a womb where no seed has been planted. And this is the greatest and grandest INTERVENTION. The very God Who inhabits eternity becomes a Man TO CHANGE EVERYTHING. Are you feeling left out by God right now? Has He let your intolerable situation continue for days, months and even years? Like all those woman, He has not forgotten you. Are you barren in your ministry? Are you barren of opportunity to do good works? Are you barren in temporal success? Has your business failed or are you on your third and rocky marriage? Keep looking to Him. You never know. You might be the instrument of God's INTERVENTION. Stay focused on Him though, like Abraham, you see your death before the Promises are fulfilled. The 12 Apostles were promised 12 thrones over Israel. They've had to wait 2,000 years for that. And Jesus Christ, darling of heaven and beloved of the Father, has to wait 6,000 years for His honor. But it will change the world when it happens.

There is no easy answer for your questions because we are not God and see impossibilities where He does not. But let's look at His Word for a few comforting facts. Moses was in the Kingdom. That means he was born again (Jn.3:3-5). In Matthew 17, our Lord Jesus said that some of His disciples wold see Him coming in His Kingdom. Moses and Elijah were there. There are many places in the prophets were our Lord Jesus is predicted. Moses and Elijah BELIEVED in Messiah looking forward. Peter, in Matthew Chapter 16 declares Him looking at Him, and we believe in Jesus looking back and believing. David is in the Kingdom for sure. He will be resurrected and second in command of Israel in her restoration (Jer.30:9). He believed what he wrote so much about in the psalms. Adam will most probably be in the Kingdom for he believed God about "the seed of the woman". He called his wife "mother of the living". The next point of comfort is the Covenant of Promise made with Abraham. There, God promises that in Abraham's seed "all the families of the earth will be blessed. This blessing is threefold; (i) It is a promise that men will know Jesus and be infused with His Spirit (Gal.3:16). (ii) To Abraham's seed is given "the gates of his enemies". That means that righteous government will eventually be installed on earth. All men will benefit from this except criminals. (iii) To Abraham is promised the Land and the whole earth (Rom.3:14), but only in resurrection, since he would die before he got them physically (Gen.17). That means that God will solve the problem of physical death. This our Lord does in John 1:29 - for the wages of sin (singular) is death (Rom.5:23) - the devastating fallenness of Adam. Thus, we see that all men will eventually be resurrected (1st Cor.15:22). (iv) To Abraham and his seed (including Jesus) God said that Abraham's enemies would be His enemies. So we can look for justice and retribution on those men who have gone against God, Christ, Jew and Believer. According to Genesis 9 a blow against a man is a blow against God. Justice will one day reign and according to Isaiah 66:24 we will look upon men in judicial agony In Romans 8:29 God does not decide by predestination. He decides by "foreknowledge". He knows which way a man will go before the man is born. Only AFTER the man has chosen (which God knew he would do) is this man predestinated NOT to be saved, but to be conformed to the image and likeness of Jesus. That is, God can exercise His sovereignty WITHOUT touching a man's free will. God's plan is not to send the rest of mankind to the Lake of Fire. His plan is usher in benign and equitous GOVERNMENT on earth by the righteous rule of Jesus first and then men who have been transformed into His likeness. This government will have three main duties. (i) To see that all worship is directed at Jesus. Nobody will be allowed to insult Him as they do now. (ii) To create a fertile and righteous environment for men to live and worship. That means a strict rule of dealing with criminals (including fallen angels and demons). (iii) To look after the creation. Man may use the treasures of the earth but the earth must be respected and given her "Sabbaths" - a time to regenerate. When Israel entered the Good Land to conquer it, God said He would not give Israel all the Land at once IN CASE wild beasts multiplied and roamed and rule the earth. When Israel was taken into captivity by Babylon, God set the time of Israel's chastisement by the Sabbaths that Israel had not given her Land. It is true that millions of people will not hear of Jesus in their lifetime. It is true that all men must die (the only exception is those Christians living at the call for resurrection- 1st Cor.15:51-52). It is true that many will end in the Lake of Fire - but that is decided by their evil works (Rev.20) not their faith. It is true that many babies were killed in and out of their mother's womb. It is true that Jewish woman ate their babies during the Babylonian siege. The Holocaust is true because Israel broke Covenant with their God (see Lev.26 and Deut.28). It is also true that all men are not equally endowed. God is not a mass-production-assembly-line God. But for each and every problem, God has set Himself aside seven thousand years to sort it out. And He is "ALL"-mighty. Nobody can stop Him. In the "fullness of time" Jesus will head up all things on earth - and in heaven. It just takes time!

I read your article with interest. Here is the text and my comments after it: 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober From verse 1 Paul corrects a false notion. He did not write the Thessalonians for nothing. The context is about Christians wondering if the dead had missed the rapture. Paul was in Thessaloniki for only 3 weeks and could not possible had taught all the truths of the New New Testament thoroughly. So after the death of some of the saints, the question arose as to whether the dead would now miss the rapture (for all raptures are for living men). Paul assures tha Thessalonians that "the dead will not suffer any disadvantage in the rapture". The are to be raised from Hades, meet a new body on the surface of the earth (as Christ did) and "together" with the living saints, be "caught away" (lit. Gk.) to the air where there are clouds (the Troposhere). This would "comfort" the saints whose brothers and sister in the Lord had died before the rapture. Verse 1 begins witha "But". In this case the word "but" is a conjunction. The Greek means "even so". The word then CONNECTS the thief coming with being "caught away" suddenly. A thief (i) comes stealthily, (ii) does not announce the day of the robbery, (iii) remains in hidden places before and after the crime, and (iv) only comes fro something PRECIOUS. But it is not the Lord Himself Who is the Thief. It is His "DAY". According to 2nd Peter 1:20 we may not interpret scripture privately. Therefore, to decide what the "day" means, we must use scripture itself. If we study then the various "days" of the Bible, we discover that there are FIVE different "days". (i) the period of sunlight, (ii) 24 hours from the evening to the next evening, (iii) a time when a man, a nation or when God can claim a certain time as his for better or for worse, (iv) a day in prophecy is equal to a year, and (v) a "day" for God is the same as a thousand years and vice verse. What "day" could we apply here. Perhaps, since it speaks of the coming of the Lord, Luke 17:24 is the way to go; 24 For as the lightning shines which lightens from one end under heaven to the other end under heaven, thus shall the Son of man be in his day. Now Matthew 24:28-30 gives the same event as Luke 17:24 - that is, the coming of our Lord Jesus like lightening - not like a thief. And the Lord, sets in motion a series of events with His coming. He fights a battle at Armageddon. He settles a score at Bozrah in Edom, He sends His angels to gather Israel who are in dispersion to "the four winds", He judges Israel (Dan.12:2). He judges "all Nations who survive the Great Tribulation (Matt.25:31-46), He subdues any vestage of rebellion, and rules the nations with a rod of iron. The shear list of events make only one "day" viable. That is, the "day" of our Lord is the fifth day - one thousand years. The prophets of old mention "in that day" many times and often it has to do with Christ's glory after His return to Millennial glory. Luke says that the "LIGHT" of the lightening will last the whole "day". WE must ask ourselves; will Christ's "shining" ever abate? Is not Christ's Kingdom a Kingdom "in light"? (Col.1:12-13). Hosea 6:2 says that God's chastisement on Israel will last two days and then will come another day of renewal. Since AD 70, Israel's chastisement has continued for 1950 years. The only "day" that fits there is again 1,000 years. And if this is so, the "TIME" in which the Lord gets to do His will on earth starts with the Rapture and lasts until the White Throne - exactly 1,000 years - the time when Christ gets to subdue God's enemies woith a rule of the rod of iron - "THE Day of the Lord". But the passage above has a more important revelation. It asserts in no uncertain terms that a child of the light could sleep and be caught unawares. The word "therefore" in verse 6 is the summation of what went before. "He refused to wear his seatbelt THEREFORE he he was flung out of the rolling car and crushed under it". "The Christian did not watch and was caught in adultery, THEREFORE he may not enter the Kingdom of God" (Gal.5:21, Eph. 5:5). The passage above is to BOTH COMFORT and ADMONISHMENT to the Christian that whereas the resurrection and rapture is a COMFORT for the Thessalonians who were distraught with the death of their fellow brothers and sister in the Lord, IT CAN BE MISSED!!! A Thief only comes for what is VALUABLE! Paul thought so too. In Philippians 3:7-14 I quote the New King James because they corrected the translation. It reads; 7 But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. 8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; 10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, 11 if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. 12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me. 13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, 14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. The word resurrection used by Paul appears just this once in the Greek. It is literally the "Resurrection of resurrections", or "the OUT-resurrection" - a resurrection out of the resurrection. And Paul says that we must "ATTAIN" to it. Paul was three years from his martyrdom as he wrote this, and he counted himself as not being worthy yet for this special resurrection. And as if this is not enough, what about the rapture? Is there a special rapture? Our text above GUARANTEES a Rapture, but here Paul says there is a Rapture THAT IS A PRIZE!!! This is the grand revelation of 1st Thessalonians. It is this; "CHRISTIAN, DON'T BE COMPLACENT!!! THERE IS A RESURRECTION AND A RAPTURE GUARANTEED. BUT PART OF IT IS SPECIAL. YOU MUST BE WORTHY OF IT AND IT IS A PRIZE! The martyrs of Revelation 20 called it "the first resurrection". The word "first" can mean first in time, but it also means FIRST IN IMPORTANCE OR RANK!!!" Are you ready oh Christian??? Paul wasn't so sure. I'll tell my secret. I am not at all sure.

The issue of women not teaching scripture is to do with Church government, not raising a family. God has TWO dealings with His creature; (i) Grace and (ii) Government. In matters of Grace, both are equal. But in Government God builds a system that each has certain attributes and function for the orderliness and function of His creature. There are certain things that a man does better than a woman, and there are certain things a woman does better than a man. And there are things that both do better than children. In the scheme of things after the fall, the man is burdened with earning a living. That means that the woman is left to manage the house. Both are a training for when Christ comes back to rule the earth. It is clear that there are some women better able to teach than some men, but God has made His choice. Consider an automobile. Its main components are three; (i) an engine, (ii) a gearbox, and (iii) a differential. Each is part of one car and are built mostly of steel. But their design and function are completely different. As long as they keep their positions the car will run well. But if the gearbox despises the engine and says; "I should be before you", the car will still run, but when the engine reaches its maximum revolutions, the car will go no faster. If the differential wants to be first in line, the car will still go until the first corner it takes and then the car will suffer major damage. The design is everything, and the well-being and function of the car is dependent on each one keeping their position. For the mothers DUTIES see 1st Timothy 2:15, 5:10-14.

If God is "ALL"-mighty, then he may claim, as He does so in various scriptures, that He has the means and the capability to carry out His purposes. In fact, in Hebrews 6:17 He openly declares that His purposes are "immutable" (Darby renders it "unchangeable"). So when God laid forth His purpose and council in the conference of the Godhead in Genesis 1:26-28, He bound Himself to His honor and reputation. We must not think that we have any intrinsic value. But what saved us was God had joined Himself to us in His purposes. And great as God's honor is, greater is the price He paid to keep His Word - the sufferings of His beloved Son Jesus. You and I, faced with a rebellious creature who had earned death and destruction, would have cast the soiled goods aside and started from fresh. But God, bound by His immutable councils, started a process of recovery, and PAID THE SUPREME PRICE. What a God!!!

The matter of the souls under the altar is not complicated if we interpret scripture with scripture. The difficulties arise because many Christians automatically assume that the Roman Catholic doctrine of "going to heaven after death" is valid. The doctrine has its root in the fact that Rome "married" the Church in about 313 AD when Constantine declared Christianity a State religion. Because the Romans worshiped the "heavenly host", and because they believed that works justified one before the gods, their belief was that if one's works were weighed in the scales of justice and found to outweigh one's evil works, one would ascend to a "heavenly lodge". But the Bible tells totally different story. First, there is not a single verse that plainly says that men go to heaven at death. Some verses are twisted to mean this, but the truth of the matter is that this doctrine is built on innuendo. So what does the Bible really say? The Bible says that man is made of three parts, body, soul and spirit (Gen.2:8, 1st Thess 5:23 etc.). Since he was made, man is called a "soul" because that it his main part. 1st Thessalonians 5:23, a prayer by Paul, says that the "whole" man is body, soul and spirit. At death the three parts are torn apart. The body returns to the elements. The spirit returns to God who gave it (Eccl.3:21, 12:7, Lk.23:46). The soul, which is the man, descends to a subterranean place called Hades to wait for the resurrection. Even our Lord Jesus was not exempt and had to wait three days in Hades (Matt.12:40, Eph.4:8, Act.2:27). The word Hades means "hidden" and this is appropriate for: A dead man is regarded as naked (2nd Cor.5:1-4) - an unnatural state which God cannot look upon A dead man is unclean (Nu.19:11-13) Death is the enemy of God (1st Co.15:26) Finally, in every single case the dead "RISE" - an impossibility if they were already "on high" in heaven. Now we must discover which altar is meant. There are, in God plan, TWO altars. The altar of sacrifice and bloodshed in the outer court of the Tabernacle/Temple. It is made of wood covered with Brass and may not be lifted from the earth "lest nakedness is seen" (Ex.20:26). On this altar sacrifices to god are made. Brass denotes judgment because the brass was taken from the Rebel Korah and his hoard when he rebelled against Moses and was judged by fire. The altar of Incense place just before the Veil leading into the Holy of Holies. It too was made of wood but covered with Gold. Blood is forbidden to be shed on it. It carried the insence which depicts Christ the High Priest sending up the prayers of His people as a sweet savor to God. When Moses made the Tabernacle, he followed a pattern of the heavenly Tabernacle which God gave him on the mountain. In heaven, there is neither earth onto which the Tabernacle can be fixed, nor is their salvation for any heavenly creature. So the altar of sacrifice is an addition to the tabernacle ONLY VALID FOR EARTH. Added to this, the martyrs' blood was shed on earth and their blood was a sacrifice made to God. THE ALTAR OF REVELATION 6:9 IS ON EARTH AND THE MARTYRS ARE UNDER THE EARTH - AS THE REST OF THE BIBLE AGREES WITH. The are in HADES under the earth. But more important is their prayer. In Luke 9:52-56 a Samaritan village, the same place that Elijah called fire from heaven centuries before, refused to entertain Jesus. His indignant disciples suggested to call fire on them. Our Lord Jesus sharply rebuked them and said that they were from another spirit. He said that He had come to save men - not kill. How come our Lord does not say the same to the Martyrs? The answer is that the martyrs had recognized that the end of the age of grace had come. God is just and blow must be met by blow. An eye for an eye and a life for a life! But, for the sake of reconciliation between God and man, God postpones judgment in the Church age so that men may have time to discover God. Justice is not neglected though, for it falls on Jesus. Added to this, there is a judgment for the living in Matthew 25:31-46, and a judgement for the risen dead in Revelation 20. Justice is not forgotten - just postponed. There will come a day when those who have loved the Lord and been intimate with Him will RECOGNIZE that the age of grace is over. The martyrs were first, and the two Witnesses of Revelation 11 were next, for they called down fire to kill men. Let us preach the gospel with energy so that we may bear fruit and make our lovely Lord's death worth it. But let us also be aware that there comes a day, not far away, when we will be required to wield a sword in Jesus' Name. Revelation 19 shows those found worthy to enter the Wedding Feast. From verse 11 it shows that these same Overcomers will form part of Christ's army for Armageddon. Let us be under no illusion. The Overcomer will do God's will when he turns the other cheek, but in a matter of weeks he could be required to kill in the bloodbath that runs up to the bridles of the horses (Rev.14:20). The Christian, whether tendered hearted sister, or hardened ex veteran, must be ready to feel sorrow for the lost and preach the gospel on Monday, and wield a sword against a man's head on Friday. The lesson of the martyrs under the altar of their own blood is crucial. Are you an Overcomer that knows His Lord's will, whether in suffering or in administering justice?

In retrospect you are correct. Please ignore the posting. Sorry for sidetracking.

Quite. According Mark 16:17 casting out demons is a sign that Christians are at work. Added to this, the judgment they face is not whether they were saved, but whether they did the will of the Father in heaven. That is, that special assize reserved for Christians after rapture (Rom.14:10, 2nd Cor.5:10). And the grammar indicates that it was not the works that were Lawless, but those claiming to have done these things. In Acts 16 what would have happened to Paul if he had gone to Asia and Bithynia? Did he not have the words of Jesus commanding him to preach the gospel to "the uttermost parts of the earth"? Surely. But is that God's plan to today? Paul must not wait long. He is required in Macedonia. Another time he waited a week before casting out a demon that had interfered from the first day. Many Christians "do their own thing". They are believers, born again and sons of God, but like king Saul of old, they do "what is right in their own eyes". The Greek word for "know" that our Lord used is the same word as Joseph not "knowing" Mary till Jesus was born. It indicates the most intimate of relationships. Those who called "Lord, Lord" knew ABOUT Jesus, had believed in Him, had been furnished with the power of the Holy Spirit and done the works they claimed. But they are classed as REBELS.

You've addressed an important point. When God made man, He actually had four purposes with man: Man was to be in the image and likeness of God to display God to the fullest extent (Romans 1 says that the creature makes the things of God known) Man was be a "help-meet", or a "companion up to the standard of" the Man Jesus (Ephesians 5 says that marriage is the picture of a reality - Christ and the Church) Man was to first subdue and then rule the earth (The previous king, Lucifer, had brought disorder) Man was to "fence about and bring to order" (lit. Heb.) a Garden of Fellowship between God and man Now, Since God is Almighty and His councils are immutable, we would expect to see these four things achieved in the fulness of time. And if we follow 2nd Peter 1:20, that is, not interpreting the Bible with private thoughts, and if we are disciplined to only interpret scripture with scripture, the New Jerusalem, if taken literally, produces absurdities. The city is 2,000 kilometers cubed, the City is a Bride and Israel are pearls with the Tree of Life (singular) on both sides of the (singular) street of it. But if we heed John's introductory verse, and apply the rest of the bible as the basis for understanding it, a wonder, all-inclusive picture emerges - a picture that would have taken a thousand pages to describe. Rev.1:1 says; The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, The word "signified" means transmitted by signs. In John Chapter 2 our Lord Jesus really did change water into wine, but scripture calls it a "sign". That is, a "sign" in the Bible is a real thing but which depicts truths. So, if we apply ourselves to the rest of the Bible, we see the following; The City is heavenly in origin but on a "renewed" earth (lit. Gk.) The City is Christ's Wife. This can only be the Church. He is a precious Stone and the Church is like Him - precious stones The City has walls like Eden was to be fenced. It is the consummate place were God's holiness is upheld when He meets with His creature. All defiling things are outside the Walls The City has the shape of the Holy of Holies - a Cube The City has the number of God's People - 12 The City has three glories; (i) God's glory, (ii) Christ's glory and (iii) its own glory (created by the Church). Thus, the creature displays God The City is God's House - He dwells in the Church God is the House - all inside dwell IN Him The City is measured by angels - that is, it is built in resurrection life, for men in resurrection are like the angels The City is for ruling The City has Gates which let in some of the Nations and refuse others These Gates are not the city but belong to the overall function of the City. Precious stones are different to pearls These Gates must also be a people of God because they are 12 There is no death - death has been subdued as the last enemy by the general resurrection of the "rest of the dead" There is justice - those who went against God and man face the Lake of Fire and are refused audience with God ... and so on. We have, by a "sign", a wonderfully informing picture of the consummation of God's plan with the earth and Man. In the wilderness we had a "sojourning Tabernacle". God's House was transitory in enemy territory In occupied Israel we had a fixed House in which God dwelt IN Christ we have a "Spiritual Temple for aGod Who is a Spirit", but made of a living Man In the Church we have an ENLARGED House of men in the flesh which is a "sojourning House" IN the Millennium we have a House made with hands for Emanuel to live and rule from - physical Jerusalem In the Millennium we have a House that has the "keys to the Kingdom" - the Church - for ruling the Nations On the New Earth, we have the same, but perfected and consummate. Since Abraham's seed is promised Canaan as an "everlasting possession" things on earth will nt be much different from the Millennium except all things will be "NEW". The Greek word means "made pristine".

Yeah. Numbers 14 says in the opening verses that "all the people" (Joshua and Caleb exempted) wept and murmured. Now that you bring that up, the narrative of the fiery serpents is another example of the sin-nature. The people murmur. God does not shut their mouths and so deal with the TRESPASS. He allows poison to flow in their blood to show them that the onset of death is in their very being. And then, when they looked upon the Brazen Serpent, they were NOT HEALED! They "LIVED" (Nu.21:9). This indicates that the underlying problem was not the murmuring. That was the FRUIT. The underlying problem was the serpentine portion coursing through their inward parts. This confirmed by the context of John 12 where our Lord alludes to this event. The context points to the inner problem: Christ will release His inner life like a grain of wheat does. This is only for the Church The "kind" of death He would die was to deal with the Prince of this world who had the power of death. So i Numbers He takes the form of a serpent. But it is Brazen, showing judgment, but without the nature of the serpent. His death would not draw the Church only, but "ALL men". This again alludes to John 1:29 where His death is so that all men can be resurrected. The sin-nature causes death to all men. Its solution is Christ's death as the Lamb. In Egypt, had any Egyptians applied the blood of the Lamb, the angel would have Passed over them. The angel only looked for the blood - not the behavior. According to Joshua 24 and Stephen in Acts 7, Israel were worshipping Egyptian demon gods as much as the Egyptians were. The Lamb was to thwart DEATH. But as per promise of God after the Golden Calf, Israel suffer RETRIBUTION in Assyria and Babylon The sin-nature causes physical DEATH. That why babies can die. Its solution is resurrection. Christ's death (Jn.1:29) allows God JUDICIALLY to raise all men without hurting His righteousness. The trespasses that come out of the sin-nature cause RETRIBUTION. The "retribution" falls either on Jesus and allows God to JUDICIALLY spare a man, or it falls on the man and he must pay in the Lake of Fire. This is Christ's death of 1st Jn.2.2. Thanks for the exchange of ideas. Go well.

Interesting. I can see why certain men use these verses, but what do they do with the unambiguous scriptures that affirm the sin-nature of even the unborn? I agree with your summation, but would like to deal with Isaiah 7 and Deuteronomy 1 in a simpler way - mainly for the young Christian. The solution is in the grammar. They both address "KNOWLEDGE" of sin. One does not have to have "knowledge" of sin to display its nature. The "knowledge" of sin surely is for the maturer man (or age of accountability) but it pertains to the FRUIT of the sin-nature, namely TRESPASSES. The two-year-old who pulls the cat's tail or has a tantrum, displays the nature but has no recognition that it is evil - though evil it is. The teenager who puts the cat into a tub of boiling water displays the same nature but conscience has its work and he/she senses good and evil. Besides the grammar, the well versed student of scripture must know of the difference between the "Sin-Offering" and the "Trespass Offering". Christ was the fulfillment of both. Added to this, Genesis 1:11-12 makes the doctrine man's sin-nature immutable. God has set forth a Law that anything with a seed within itself will produce the same kind. Adam had no offspring before the fall. That is, every man ever to come out of Adam's loins MUST have the sin-nature by the Law of "kinds". And one need go no further than Genesis Chapter 5 to affirm this. Adam, made in God's likeness, did not produce a man in God's likeness. He produced a man in HIS (Adam's) OWN likeness. Genesis 5:1–3 (NKJV) 1This is the book of the genealogy of Adam. In the day that God created man, He made him in the likeness of God. ... 3And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth. No wonder the line of Adam must be removed from the insemination of Jesus. Finally, logic should have settled the matter. If the wages of sin (singular) is death, and all men IN Adam die (Rom.5:23, 1st Cor.15:22), it is given that all men had "sin" (singular). And this is brutally proven in that babies, in or out of the mother's womb - before they have "known" evil - still die on a daily basis. And this is why, in John 1:29, in contrast to 1st John 2:2, our Lord Jesus must die for the "sin" (singular) of the world. It again shows that if God wants to resurrect every man, this terrible legacy that afflicts both the fetus and the hoary-headed man, must be put away from before God. As long as one man carries Adam's nature, 1st Corinthians 15:22 cannot be fulfilled. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive

Government. In Genesis 1:26-28 God makes man and He gives him dominion over earth and its environs. Where shall that man dwell? Unlike God, Who is a Spirit, man is physical. He is made from the earth, to be nourished by the earth and his job is to rule the earth. The unit of Government is a CITY (Lk.19:17-19). And within this city lives the king of that city. He occupies a HOUSE in that city. David's house is built but the God of "heaven and EARTH" has no House. David purposes in his heart that God should have a HOUSE. God allows him to prepare the plans and materials, but his son, Solomon, must build it. The purpose of a house is primarily to protect from the elements. God is no different except that the elements, being unholy, defile Him if He allowed it. So His House is built a special way. It is built so that He may maintain His holiness but still draw men to Himself. The Tabernacle/Temple has a Veil and a High Priest - one to protect God's holiness and the other to mediate for Israel. Hard on the Veil is the Altar of Incense which speaks of Christ carrying our prayers up to God. The Temple of the Millennium does the same. The Nations pour into Jerusalem to learn of God, and our Lord Jesus, Emanuel, carries their prayers to God. 1st Timothy 2:5 says there is ONE Mediator between God and MEN (all men) - the MAN Jesus Isa.56:6-8 6 Also the sons of the alien, that join themselves to Jehovah, to minister unto him and to love the name of Jehovah, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from profaning it, and holdeth fast to my covenant; 7 even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer; their burnt-offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar: for my house shall be called a house of prayer for all the peoples. Micah 4:1-2 1 But it shall come to pass in the end of days that the mountain of Jehovah’s house shall be established on the top of the mountains, and shall be lifted up above the hills; and the peoples shall flow unto it. 2 And many nations shall go and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths. For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and Jehovah’s word from Jerusalem.

Nice swapping ideas with you too. Go well.

What then do you think of Exodus 29? It seems like that's exactly what the Tabernacle was for. In verses 43-46 the language is without ambiguity. But you have a good point. It is the physical Temple that is to be a "House of Prayer" for not only Israel, but the Gentiles.

Thank you for your answer Marilyn. Instead of rebuttal, may I present the events as I see them, with supporting scripture, and then, if my answer is not too long, comment on the scriptures you gave. We know that scripture has an heptadic structure - sevens everywhere. Now, without going into a long explanation, the first Sabbath is glaringly not defined by "the evening and the morning". It is defined by Adam's life. It is; "IN the day you eat ...", or "WITHIN the day ... ". Adam was made last on the sixth day, so his first day was the Sabbath. And Adam died after 930 years. Now, 2nd Peter 1:20 forbids private interpretation of scripture, so we must turn to the "days" of the Bible to define "that day" in which Adam died. A a study of the whole Bible will show that there are FIVE different "days". (i) The period of sunlight, (ii) the evening and the morning - 24 hours from sunset to sunset, (iii) an event, like the "day of the Lord", (iv) a year, when it is prophecy like Daniel's weeks or the number of years Judah must be in exile that the Land has her Sabbaths, and (v) a thousand years is as a day to the Lord. Now, which one fits Adam's life. The answer of course is number (v). Adam died WITHIN a day and he made 930 years. Likewise, Hebrews 3 and 4 speak of two other Sabbaths. (i) The time that Israel occupied the Land until the were carried away in chastisement, and (ii) a FUTURE Sabbath where God will be able to rest. Expositors and historians are divided on how long Israel sojourned in the Good Land from Joshua to Nebuchadnezzar, but the all agree on one thing. It was just under 1,000 years. If we take this proof, and add the "principle of first mention", then the "future Sabbath" of Hebrews 4 must be defined as the others were - by 1,000 years. And we find a perfect 1,000 years after Christ's return in Revelation 20. Adam succumbed to Satan and could not complete the thousand years of God's Rest. Israel succumbed to Satan and could not complete that Sabbath Rest. But Christ, Whose Kingdom is without end, easily subdues Satan, the earth and even death to complete His Father's rest. This 1,000 years is very important for a number of reasons, but it is equally important to our discussion. For if the 1,000 years is the SEVENTH 1,000 year period and God's Rest, then the rebellion of Magog is a thousand years AFTER your calculation. Let us examine the differences between the end of this age, and the rebellion of Magog. Israel is by no means returned to their Land by the end of the Great Tribulation for they are only "gathered from the FOUR WINDS (only Israel was scattered to the four winds)" "after the Tribulation of those days" (Matt.24:29-31). This is Ezekiel 37. But Ezekiel 38:8, and other verses, say that Israel has already been gathered out of the nations and dwells safely in their land. Israel live in "unwalled cities" when Magog attacks. That is, they have had years of safety. Israel of today lives in constant state of persecution. Not only is Jerusalem walled, but walls are errected to keep out the Palestinians. Ezekeil 38-39 cannot be at the end of this age. Magog comes with horses, shields and swords. Why not with tanks and missiles? Even today's enemies of Israel use modern weapons. The answer is that after Christ returns no weapons with be produced for 1,000 years (Isa.2:4). Ezekiel 38:21-22 says that God will fight that day, and by two methods; (i) Confusion among men, and (ii) raining fire. At Armageddon, Christ wages war with the Sword of His Word and gets covered in blood And, as mentioned, Christ will have reigned for 1,000 years by then. This reign starts at the end of 3.5 years, or 1260 days, in Revelation 11:15. The Beast is the grand enemy of Christ and is the general of the Gentile army at Armageddon. Magog is the grand enemy of God and is the General of his army - two different battles and two different Generals separated by 1,000 years There is more, but "by two or three witnesses shall everything be established" and I have shown 5 points of difference between Armageddon and Magog. Now, returning to your Original Point about the "fulness of the Gentiles", have you considered that it (i) must be an event in time because the word used is "UNTIL". And (ii) those who become believers are NOT "the fullness of the Gentiles". According to Ephesians 2:15 they are taken from "TWAIN", or "TWO" - the "two" being the Gentiles and Israel. And then to further complicated such a concept, those who become converted are WITHOUT ethnicity. "There is NO Jew NOR Greek in the New Man ... " (Gal.3:28, Col.3:11). Next, there is no verse that says Israel will turn to Christ. Their darkest hour is still before them - when they allow the Beast in God's Temple (2nd Thess.2:4). They "mourn" when they finally see the One Whom they pierced. Our Lord does not come from Bethlehem nor Galilee to save them, but from Sion just north of Jerusalem. Next, Jeremiah 31 promises a New Covenant of Law with Israel AND Judah. That is, Israel must be restored to their Land and ONE NATION again. It is only THEN that Israel's sins are removed (Jer.31:34). Next, in Romans it is not FAITH that causes their sins to be put away, but pure mercy. And that mercy is not because Israel kept the Law, but because of the Covenant with Abraham. Lastly, a Tree in Parable is a king and his kingdom (Joshua 9, Daniel 4, Ezekiel 31). The Olive Tree is NOT the Church but Christ's Kingdom. To make it the Church presupposes that Israel WERE already in the Church and were cut out - an absurdity since Israel never ever believed. I am aware of the prevailing understanding of Romans Chapter 9 to 11. Bible students have seen the words "all Israel will be saved" and, without warrant, have made it to mean the same salvation as a Christian experiences. But Zacharias' prediction of Israel's "salvation" is NOT rebirth and/or eternal life. It is the recovery of Israel to what God promised Israel through Abraham. I apologize for going so long. Thank you in anticipation for your time and consideration, and your courteous manner.

2. As promised, it now time to examine Matthew 13:40–43 (NKJV) 40Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear! These verses are largely ignored by student of scripture. It is an interesting exercise to try to find commentary on them which includes the deadly warning. If we catalog the facts as the grammar presents, the astute student of scripture will immediately see the somberness of it. In verse 40 the angels harvest the Tares and they are "burned in the fire". That ends the subject of the Tares. The next sentence refers to Christ's Kingdom - not the Tares. Now to be a member of Christ's Kingdom you have t be born again (Jn.3:3-5). Thus,verses 41-43 CONCERN CHRISTIANS! This doubly settled by the fact that the WHEAT is dealt with To be wheat you must come from Christ (Jn.12:24) With this double proof concerning His Kingdom, it is NOT the unfaithful who are them divided from the faithless, BUT THE LAWLESS FROM THE RIGHTEOUS - that is, WORKS are the deciding factor. With the DIVISION of Tares from Wheat it is the SEED that counts, but concerning the Wheat, its members are divided into TWO BASED ON WORKS This can only lead to one conclusion. Rebirth, eternal life and sonship to God are by FAITH, but entry into the Kingdom when Christ sets it up on earth IS DEPENDENT ON WORKS. Is this confirmed by other scriptures? In Matthew 5:20 the Lord Jesus said that OUR righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisees. He is not talking about the righteousness of God which is accorded to the believer In Matthew 7:21-23 certain men who knew Jesus and had done wondrous works are refused the Kingdom because they were LAWLESS - that is, not DOING the will of the Father In Matthew 22:11-14 the Kingdom is LIKENED to a Wedding Feast and one who accepted the call and tried to enter the Feast (which is the kingdom), is ejected because his "garment" did not fit. According to Revelation 19:7-8 the wedding garment is the WORKS OF THE SAINT - not the imputed righteousness of God In Matthew 24:45-51 the unfaithful servant, who was once faithful, is cast out of the Kingdom for his WORKS In Matthew 25 the Kingdom is LIKE a Wedding. The five foolish Virgins are the same as the wise in seven points. they only difference is that they dis not BUY extra oil. Their folly was that they did not PAY and PRICE THEMSELVES In Matthew 25 the servant who buried his Talent is still called a servant after his sentence. He is cast out of the Kingdom because of WHAT HE DID In 1st Corinthians 6:9-10 the UNRIGHTEOUS will not inherit the Kingdom. In this case it was taking a fellow Christina to a heathen court of law. The letter is addressed to "all, who in every place, call upon the Lord" (1:2) In Galatians 5:21 the WORKERS of the flesh are excluded from the kIngdom. The letter is addressed to Churches. In Ephesians 5:5 the WORKERS of the flesh are excluded from the Kingdom. The letter is addressed to Christians. I propose that the parable of the Tares not only shows the fiery end of the counterfeit Christian, but FIRE AS WELL for the Christian who does not obey God's Words.

If certain students of scripture use this verse to show the completeness of the Church, they are far wrong. Romans Chapter 9, 10 & 11 show on what basis God can restore Israel. Romans 11:25 sets the TIME that Israel will remain in blindness and unbelief. It pertains to Luke 21:24. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the nations until the times of the nations be fulfilled. This concept is used again for the reason why God delayed Israel's gaining of the Good Land to four hundred years in Genesis 15:16. 16 And in the fourth generation they shall come hither again; for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full. In Daniel Chapter 2, Gentile Government is shown by the four world powers with their types of government. "In the days of the ten toes" Christ will suddenly appear and ruthlessly destroy this Gentile government. So this government is given a TIME until which God removes them and installs Christ. Romans 11:25 tells us that Israel will remain in blindness and unbelief until Christ bursts out the clouds over Mt. Olivet, saves Jerusalem and then conquers Gentile military and political power at Armageddon in Jezreel. It then that the times of the Gentiles are full. But, I'm interested in your posting. Do you think that Christ will return without having enlivened the set number of Christians? I'll tell you why this is important. Rebirth and eternal life are only gained by FAITH. Hebrews 11:1 defines faith as the substance and hope of things UNSEEN. The moment our Lord Jesus is SEEN (coming from the clouds) faith CEASES. He can be SEEN and the formula for faith dissolves. If Israel remains in unbelief until Christ is SEEN, then their salvation is not the same as a Christian.

I agree in general with you. The Tabernacle was God's dwelling. So was Solomon's Temple. And our Lord Jesus called Zerubbabel's Temple "His Father's House" in John Chapter 2. It is not that God DID not dwell in a House made with hands, by that He will CHANGE His abode. This is revealed in John 4 as our Lord advises the Samaritan woman that "The hour COMES and NOW IS ... " that the PLACE where God is to be met is the human spirit. This is an eternal House and will never be given up. But the MAN Jesus will return to earth and set up His Kingdom at the end of this age. He will live somewhere. But besides being the "Most High" in other scriptures, to Israel He is called "EMANUEL" - that is, "God WITH us". The close of the age is a deciding point. Two thousand years ago, EMANUEL was presented to Israel. He was rejected and leaves the Temple, His Father's House, "DESOLATE" (Matt.23:38). Since then, Jesus is preached to all nations including the Jews who are scattered among them. Now, at the very end they must choose. At Jesus' trial they chose Caesar. Who will they choose now after 2,000 years? So a Temple will be built. Matthew 24, 2nd Thessalonians 2 and Revelation 11 are clear. There will be a physical Temple in Jerusalem at the end of the age. And 2nd Thessalonians 2:4 calls it "God's Temple". Israel is God's people. Canaan is God's Good Land, and Jerusalem is "the city of the great King". God lays claim to anything built there - especially if Jews build it. But Israel choose Caesar again - a Gentile king (Dan.9). And it is the final choice that provokes God. Matthew 24 advises all who "see" this event (that means that live at or near Jerusalem) to run and not stop to get their coats. Indeed, GOD'S Temple is occupied by an imposter. The rest of the events are almost undisputed by all fundamental Bible students. Our Lord Jesus breaks forth from the clouds, frees Jerusalem and marches, with His army, to Armageddon were He has gathered the combined Gentile military power. In one battle, in one place, Christ destroys the military, and political power of the Gentiles. The prophets say that His kingdom is (i) one that will fill the whole earth and (ii) an everlasting kingdom. The question is; WHERE WILL THE KING LIVE??" The answer is - in the Temple of Ezekiel. This is for TWO REASONS; The rebuilt Temple is defiled by a mere man - the Beast. God does not take second place to anyone The Temple as the Jews know it does NOT reflect the finished work of Christ. Ezekiel's Temple is different to the first two because the Holy Place is no more. The Veil was torn and the way to God is open. There is no Veil and no reason for the contents of the Holy Place as EMANUEL is the fulfillment of them all. The only question now to be answered is; What happens to the third Temple? We cannot say, but if we examine the evidence it is likely that the earthquake of Revelation 11:13 will destroy it. Summary: God has set up His House as the Church - a "spiritual House" (1st Pet.2). As the "Almighty" He does not live in a House made with hands The INCARNATE God - Jesus - A MAN, will dwell in Jerusalem and will have, as His House, Ezekiel's Temple. The "greater Solomon" will not lack is glory and pomp as King of the whole earth with His House in Jerusalem.

From the Greek word rendered "Covet" we get the word "Zealous". In modern English the word "covet" is given an illegal dimension, but it is not so in the Bible. In the Bible the object desired decides whether it is illegal or not. So; Modern English "Covet" means to inordinately and illegally desire something Bible "Covet" is to earnestly and zealously desire something. That something could be legal or illegal

There is a number of points here that many students of Matthew 13 miss. The end of the age is a harvest. If we study end-time prophecy, the general consensus is that the Church is harvested first - sometime before the Great Tribulation. (Hey, you post-Trib guys; give me three minutes and read on). But here this parable gives the harvest of the Tares first. Is not the Harvest of the unbeliever at Armageddon which is long after the Church is raptured? How are we to explain this? And then a very strange thing is revealed if we are strict with the grammar. The Tares get harvest first and burned. The next verse begins with "As Therefore". "AS THEREFORE" means "just like the Tares". Then follows the Harvest of "His (God's) Kingdom". The harvest of the Tares is over. And the tares were never "His Kingdom" because to be in His Kingdom one has to be REBORN (Jn.3:3-5). According to the grammar, the "things that offend cannot be Tares, but must be Wheat". How shall we explain this? 1. The Tares Harvested First. The Tares, literally "Darnel" is not just the unbeliever. They are COUNTERFEIT Christians. The parables says; "The Kingdom of Heaven IS LIKE ..." And our Lord Jesus was talking to a mixed crowd of (i) His disciples, (ii) Jews, (iii) Samaritans and (iv) Gentiles. That is, all peoples of earth would see the Kingdom LOOK LIKE ....". And this "LOOK ALIKE" would simulate the Christian Church. Now which entity looks and talks like the Christian Church but is an Imposter? There is only one - The Roman Church. In 300 AD, Rome was in serious decline. Added to this, the more Christians they martyred - the more Christians sprung. So in 313 AD, Caesar Constantine declared Christianity a State religion. The Roman soldiers changed their armour for priests robes and the name changed from "The Roman Empire" to "The HOLY Roman Empire". Caesar, called Pontifex Maximus, kept his designation and his fish shaped hat to show he worshiped the fish-god Dagon. But 97% and more of the "Holy Roman Empire" were still heathens. So to keep them happy, all the pagan feasts were kept but given Biblical names. The resurrection of Baal, three nights after the winter equinox was Christ-mas. And Ishtar, the fertility goddess, whose feast day fell on the first sun-day after the first full moon after the Spring Equinox, was named Easter. What with halloween becoming "all-saints", and the heathen idols allowed in the Churches, the infiltration and SIMULATION of the Church was complete. And just to crown it all, the Roman Church could now exercise its politics from the pulpit THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH. It became, and still is the most wealthy and politically active entity on earth. Even the most biased of tourists could not help noticing how the East-West facing Roman Churches dominate the skyline of every small and large city, especially in Europe. That the Russian Revolution and Hitler were supported by Rome is no secret. But be careful. Propagate this and you might have the Jesuits looking you up - fatally. Not so well known among Christians is the fact that we have had six world powers since Nimrod's Babel. Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome. And while language and local customs changed, the RELIGION of all six powers was the same - Nimrod's Religion of Babel. And if a study is made of all the Theistic religions and cults of the world today, it turns out that they are all branches of one big Trunk - the BABYLONIAN RELIGION. You could say; "Babylon and her DAUGHTERS", which would make her a MOTHER who has infiltrated or spawned all the false religions of the world. And if you said this, you would agree not only with the prophets of old, but you would agree with John in Revelation 17:5 "and upon her forehead was a name written: ‘Secret, Babylon the Great, the Mother of the Whores, and the Abominations of the earth.’ (Young's Literal Translation) And this leads us to the solution of why the tares are harvested first. If you read on in Chapter 17 you will find that the Beast, who supports Her and is her carrier, in order to get universal worship for the Dragon, must DO AWAY WITH HER! The Beast will demand and command, under pain of death, all mankind on earth to receive a Mark of allegiance and to WORSHIP him. He cannot afford to have a worldwide COMPETING RELIGION. So in verses 15-18 we read that the ten kings who gave the Beast his power on earth DESTROY THE WHORE. The Roman Church and all her branches, her daughters, will be destroyed at least three and a half years before Armageddon. Armageddon is no doubt a harvest too, but not of the Tares. In Revelation 14 we read that Armageddon is the harvest of THE VINE OF THE EARTH, not TARES. Matthew 13 concerns the Kingdom of the heavens and how it looks while in Mystery - that is, the Church age. 2. Why is the Kingdom of Wheat found to have offensive things which too must be burned? To shorten this answer to the OP, I will leave this for another day.

Shalom

Probably (I know because I do it myself) you have not read all the postings in the thread. If you had you would have seen that I objected to the OP and took a glaringly opposite view. So when you added your support to DeighAnn, we surely have some differences. But I'm the first one to seek common ground. On the other hand, we have this privilege of discussing without the same consequences that we would have if we were in the same Assembly. With that in mind, may I suggest a small correction to your statement about Abraham. The Abrahamic Promises are given solely at the discretion of God because He chose and called out Abraham. And the fulfillment of those promises hangs solely on a Contract. God Promises to DO something IF Abraham DOES something. The FAITH counts after this. Faith declares that God is able to fulfill this promise. And if so, then faith dictates that I get circumcised. The events of Abraham's life then dictated by his faith. They are FOUR: 1. Immediately after the Covenant is ratified by blood in Genesis 17, God tells Abraham that he won't inherit the Land in his lifetime. If Abraham still believes God, then he has declared his belief that God can raise the dead - and unheard of thing up to then. 2. Abraham defeats 3 kings with 318 men. He is offered the spoils as earthly possessions. He refuses. Abraham believed that he would receive the whole Land anyway - BUT at the hand of God - not men. 3. Abraham offers his son Isaac. This test was double-barreled. Abraham had been promised a great nation. Isaac was the channel for this. But Isaac was as yet without seed. This was a big test. But even bigger was the fact that in resurrection man is like the angels. He cannot die and he cannot marry. So Abraham must not only believe in the resurrection, but he must believe that God had a solution to the matter of no marrying (in the Bible, marriage is the sex act - not a piece of paper by a magistrate). 4. Abraham, when faced with death, again believes that he will receive the whole Land someday future AT THE HAND OF GOD - not men. So he refuses even the field of his sepulcher at the hand of men. He pay for it. The money he pays is for God's honor. Abraham is thus a "friend of God". This point of waiting for God to give you possession and not men is the crux of the temptation of Jesus by Satan. And it decides who is WORSHIPED. In Luke, Satan declares ownership of the kingdoms of this world. Our Lord Jesus does not deny this. But to gain the kingdoms of this world, Jesus must pass through a terrible suffering and pay a huge price. If He receives the Lands at Satan's hand he can avoid the pain and humility. But is he (Satan) who is trusted as His (Jesus') source. The one who feeds your hand is your Master. The temptation is grave for a man facing what Jesus faced, but He, in a much bigger way, refused the Land (the whole earth) at any hand but the Father's. Faith is the substance of hope in a thing unseen and in the One Who promises it. Faith is vital to please God, but it must FIRST have God's Words. All over the world, men have faith, but it is not in God's Word. We do not get God's Promises because of our faith. We are expected to have faith once His words are given.

Methinks you are going to have problems with that. Let us examine the following. The Covenant of Promises made with Abraham requires circumcision on Israel's part. If a male Israelite was not circumcised. He would be "cut off from his people" (Gen.17:10-14). So an Israelite who was seed of Jacob would not be an Israelite if he was "cut off from his people". The Promises made to Abraham included gaining, as an everlasting possession, Canaan. But this promise is expanded in Romans 4:13 to the whole earth. It is now not Canaan only, which was by being seed of Abraham, but the whole earth by being born of the holy Spirit (Jn.3:3-5, Dan.2:35). But immediately a difficulty arises. There is no promise to Abraham about this rebirth. It might be alluded to in that he has TWO SEEDS, one (i) as the sand of the seashore - that is, earthly, and (ii) as the stars of heaven - heavenly. But this is not part of the Covenant made with Abraham. Conversely, those who accept Christ by faith are predominantly Gentiles and they are NOT of Israel, but "sons of God". How then are they eligible for inhering what was promised to Abraham? So various scriptures deal with this, notably Ephesians (by adoption) and Galatians (by being IN Christ Who is seed of Abraham). But the text you answered to - that of Romans 9 - deals with another deep problem. Romans 1 - 5 show all men condemned. Chapter 6 shows the solution to being transported out of the clutches of sin by being buried with Christ in baptism. But the Jew will claim that he has the Law with which to be justified. Paul soon puts that notion to rest by showing that the Law, though good and spiritual and God-given, only condemns. The rel solution to the "law of sin and death" is the "The Law of life ain Christ Jesus" imparted the Holy Spirit. But Israel refuse that way. What shall become of them? The reason why this is so important is that God's honor is involved. God has given promises of owning the Land of Canaan by one covenant, but 430 years later he gave another covenant that, if broken, would cause Israel to be ejected from the Land. So Paul spends THREE Chapters on how God, without breaking His righteousness and judicial correctness, gets Israel back into their Land (i) WITHOUT them believing in Jesus Christ, and (ii) WITHOUT them keeping the Law. Marvelous!