Bread of Life is Hard to Swallow

[nebula]

This is the only passage that I found in the bible containing a person that was exorcised and recieved a demon again. Mt 12:43-45. I don't think that once someone is exorcised that they are locked down from all evil, I think they are more likely to be repossessed again if they allow themselves to fall back into a bad sin or practice another evil.

However, I do know of many exorcisms where the devil/demons will pretend to leave in hopes that the person exorcising them will leave thinking they won the battle.

I just found another passage talking about the demon coming back and being worse than the original in the previously possessed person. Luke 11:24-26

In those passages (well, both are the same passage, actually), Jesus is teaching something to the people. This is not an actual account of a demon or demons whom Jesus cast out of people going back in.

[Michael.]

Michael,

Jesus said this when confronted with the very same subject;

Mt

[nebula]

I can understand your tepidity towards this, however can you explain to me why then the protestant ministers couldn't cast out the demon and when they tried further the demon laughed and them and told them that they held no power over him that they were his slaves?

It could be any reason.

Dave is right - you cannot trust the testimony and actions of demons to determine truth.

We don't know if the demons were lying.

We don't know if the Protestant ministers were truly Christians, either (it happens).

[nebula]

I was merely using that case as an example that the Demon who during an exorcism cannot lie when he is invoked to tell the truth in Jesus' name, ...

I have been under the instruction of people who actually cast demons out of people as a part of their ministry (only they call it "Deliverance").

They testify that demons can still twist the truth while not actually lying.

Rule number [whatever] when casting out demons: you don't command them to tell the truth. You command them to keep quiet.

That's what Jesus did.

[Michael.]

I was merely using that case as an example that the Demon who during an exorcism cannot lie when he is invoked to tell the truth in Jesus' name, ...

I have been under the instruction of people who actually cast demons out of people as a part of their ministry (only they call it "Deliverance").

They testify that demons can still twist the truth while not actually lying.

Rule number [whatever] when casting out demons: you don't command them to tell the truth. You command them to keep quiet.

That's what Jesus did.

Ya, I have been studying alot lately on the subject. Fr. Amorth states that he does not like it when demons want to chat, he shuts them right up. However he does also order them to speak in regards to who they are and how many they are and also repeat Jesus' name as well as force them to pray. You should google him sometime, he has around 60,000 under his belt.

I am not looking to get into the deliverance business, I think I will leave that up to other people that God chooses to use as instruments. I'd probably jump out of my skin if I came face to face with a demon.

[OneLight]

Your assumption is incorrect. I am trying, and have done my best, to show you that what the Catholics believe is false (and for the record, I was brought up in a Roman Catholic church), without taking this thread into a Catholic bashing event. ...

Hi, OneLight!

It appears i gave up on you too soon the other night! My apologies. I'm certainly grateful for your efforts. My hope was (and still is) that someone will look at John, chapter 6 with me and explain why Jesus' words should be taken figuratively, but not literally. I assumed that you and Dave were unwilling to

always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have ...

(1 Peter 3:15)

Perhaps i was mistaken, and you are prepared to tell me the real meaning of Jesus' words in the 6th chapter of John's gospel. It this so?

I don't know where you got the idea I never answered your question. If you check post #3, you will see that I have already answered you.

[OneLight]

One thing that does raise a question in your posts is why do you keep referring to Socrates? The Holy Spirit is He who should be working in you to guide you, not Socrates.

I happen to enjoy reading Plato's dialogs of Socrates. If you find something untrue in the words of his that i quoted, please let me know. Do you think a person should live an unexamined life?

Nope, I just think that His words are the ones we should be studying, not any of mans. I find more wisdom in Gods words than I would ever find in mans.

[Michael.]

One thing that does raise a question in your posts is why do you keep referring to Socrates? The Holy Spirit is He who should be working in you to guide you, not Socrates.

I happen to enjoy reading Plato's dialogs of Socrates. If you find something untrue in the words of his that i quoted, please let me know. Do you think a person should live an unexamined life?

Nope, I just think that His words are the ones we should be studying, not any of mans. I find more wisdom in Gods words than I would ever find in mans.

That is the problem with Sola Scriptura, the early Church Fathers used oral as well as written. Funny tho, that to the early Church fathers and Christians alike, the bible recounted the history of the church and of Christ, it wasn't the sole means of knowing, understanding, and promoting God until the protestants cut off all the branches of the tree and held fast to the trunk.

God did not leave a bible when he went to heaven, he left his apostles and his oral tradition. The bible came hundreds of years later. So when you feel the need dear protestants to hold onto your bibles, please remember to thank the Council of Carthage for giving you that book.

[OneLight]

One thing that does raise a question in your posts is why do you keep referring to Socrates? The Holy Spirit is He who should be working in you to guide you, not Socrates.

I happen to enjoy reading Plato's dialogs of Socrates. If you find something untrue in the words of his that i quoted, please let me know. Do you think a person should live an unexamined life?

Nope, I just think that His words are the ones we should be studying, not any of mans. I find more wisdom in Gods words than I would ever find in mans.

That is the problem with Sola Scriptura, the early Church Fathers used oral as well as written. Funny tho, that to the early Church fathers and Christians alike, the bible recounted the history of the church and of Christ, it wasn't the sole means of knowing, understanding, and promoting God until the protestants cut off all the branches of the tree and held fast to the trunk.

God did not leave a bible when he went to heaven, he left his apostles and his oral tradition. The bible came hundreds of years later. So when you feel the need dear protestants to hold onto your bibles, please remember to thank the Council of Carthage for giving you that book.

Do you have something against protestants?

[nebula]

God did not leave a bible when he went to heaven, he left his apostles and his oral tradition. The bible came hundreds of years later.

That's not 100% correct.

The Scriptures were already there - in written form. We now call this the Old Testament. But it was these Scriptures that Jesus quoted from when tempted by Satan, it was these Scriptures that prophesied of His coming, and it was these Scriptures that the Apostles referred to in their Letters.

So, to be correct, you would need to say: "God did not leave a Bible as we know it when he went to Heaven; he left the Old Testament Scriptures, His apostles and His oral tradition. The New Testament came hundreds of years later."