Alcohol

[artsylady]

In street evangelism this week, I had two people come unglued on me and yell at me for just trying to hand them a tract..saying nothing to them. A Muslim gal (converted from Baptist) chased me down the street yelling at me three weeks back because I would not answer here when she said"God had sex with Mary, why?"

Servant. You should be able to answer these kinds of things and be well equipped if you are preaching to people on the street and putting yourself as a representative out there like that. You will encounter people from various beliefs and you should be ready with an answer. If you see her again, tell her that God didn't have sex with Mary. When the angel told Mary she was pregnant, she said that she was still a virgin. You can also ask her, since Muslims DO believe that Jesus did not have an earthly father, who WAS his father? You can also ask her why Mohammed had sex with a 9 year old. Young muslim converts are usually naive and there are so many inconsistencies that you can point out to her but you need to make yourself aware of them. When you say you would not answer, how did you respond? I mean this all as constructive criticism so that you will be more effective in your work. You can't just clam up. At the very least, tell them you will get back to them somehow with an answer, otherwise you will be completely ineffective and they will walk away feeling even more solidified in their beliefs because you had no answer for them.

[artsylady]

Anitarose: With your history, you are very right to stay away from alcohol and if an unbeliever asks, you can be honest with them as to why - that you cannot handle just one and that this is a problem for you. You will show them you have self control and wisdom in such a decision and that it has nothing to do with you being better than them.

[Smalcald]

Hi Servant

I know I said I would drop out ,

But I just wanted to add one thing. You mentioned having one drink and you are a "drinker" and how we would welcome a younger Christian. I have been blessed with a close Christian family, no divorce (even in the extended family), no alcoholism, kids, and the usual problems of course, but in general very blessed. I first had a glass of wine with dinner at sixteen, it was no big deal. It was not seen as some sort of evil substance that made you a "drinker" or non drinker; it was no different than having a slice of great cheese with your bread. Evil is often in the heart and eyes of the beholder.

Now I do see people I would call 'drinkers' they go to bars, they get drunk, and they look at alcohol as a way to get high. Alcohol does not have to be viewed that way, but IF you do than I certainly would say not to drink as in that case it is a problem and is sin. One glass of wine taken in one hour does not cause a male to be drunk, there is no impact beyond the taste, and I don't see how this scripturally could be wrong? I just think that we are raising alcohol to a standard that it does not deserve. Scripture says that drunkards and gluttons are going down the wrong path; it is about our hearts not the substance.

Anyway here I go again! Sorry about that. I do enjoy your posts though and they remind me much of my in laws who also believe strongly in abstinence as a command and who I love dearly.

[Servant54]

In street evangelism this week, I had two people come unglued on me and yell at me for just trying to hand them a tract..saying nothing to them. A Muslim gal (converted from Baptist) chased me down the street yelling at me three weeks back because I would not answer her when she said"God had sex with Mary, why?"

Servant. You should be able to answer these kinds of things and be well equipped if you are preaching to people on the street and putting yourself as a representative out there like that. You will encounter people from various beliefs and you should be ready with an answer. If you see her again, tell her that God didn't have sex with Mary. When the angel told Mary she was pregnant, she said that she was still a virgin. You can also ask her, since Muslims DO believe that Jesus did not have an earthly father, who WAS his father? You can also ask her why Mohammed had sex with a 9 year old. Young muslim converts are usually naive and there are so many inconsistencies that you can point out to her but you need to make yourself aware of them. When you say you would not answer, how did you respond? I mean this all as constructive criticism so that you will be more effective in your work. You can't just clam up. At the very least, tell them you will get back to them somehow with an answer, otherwise you will be completely ineffective and they will walk away feeling even more solidified in their beliefs because you had no answer for them.

Actually I gave a partial story since it was only an example of evangelism sometimes being like a zoo. She was a backslid black gal from the South, joining the Muslims. She actually said "begotten" meant sex and God had sex with Mary. She said it says sex in the dictionary. I said I would have to see what the Greek said. At that point she went ballistic.

I realized she was demonized and I do not deal with demonized people when encountering them out on the street. She was not a run of the mill Muslim, they are kind and respectful.

So that is why I did not deal with her question. I do not want to deal with every Tom Dick and Harry and their arguments, I want to get to the young kid who will get be effected by the gospel who will be getting on the bus in 5 minutes. The devil wants us all tied up wasting time on his dumb theology and he hires his own to do that

I do deal with many who have honest questions and it is such a blessing.

Edited May 18, 2009 by Servant54

[StartingToday]

I apologize if I am off topic, forgive me I haven't read all the post.

But just to comment on drinking being a sin. Jesus maybe have never drank wine (not sure if He did or not) but why would He turn water into wine then offer the wine to His followers if they weren't to drink it because it is sinful?

And what was served at the last supper? Wasn't wine offered to represent His blood?

[artsylady]

I do not want to deal with every Tom Dick and Harry and their arguments

But God loves every Tom Dick and Harry. You sound like you have your own agenda in finding that young guy about to get on the bus. Did the Holy Spirit direct you to go out and target a certain market and not have to deal with the rest? I don't mean to sound rude but I don't know what you mean.

[Servant54]

Hi Servant

I know I said I would drop out ,

But I just wanted to add one thing. You mentioned having one drink and you are a "drinker" and how we would welcome a younger Christian. I have been blessed with a close Christian family, no divorce (even in the extended family), no alcoholism, kids, and the usual problems of course, but in general very blessed. I first had a glass of wine with dinner at sixteen, it was no big deal. It was not seen as some sort of evil substance that made you a "drinker" or non drinker; it was no different than having a slice of great cheese with your bread. Evil is often in the heart and eyes of the beholder.

Now I do see people I would call 'drinkers' they go to bars, they get drunk, and they look at alcohol as a way to get high. Alcohol does not have to be viewed that way, but IF you do than I certainly would say not to drink as in that case it is a problem and is sin. One glass of wine taken in one hour does not cause a male to be drunk, there is no impact beyond the taste, and I don't see how this scripturally could be wrong? I just think that we are raising alcohol to a standard that it does not deserve. Scripture says that drunkards and gluttons are going down the wrong path; it is about our hearts not the substance.

Anyway here I go again! Sorry about that. I do enjoy your posts though and they remind me much of my in laws who also believe strongly in abstinence as a command and who I love dearly.

Here is what I think. I think you need to go back and read Proverbs 23..the whole chapter. Read it and read it and read it, you are missing what it is saying and you are being robbed by an improper interpretation of this scripture. It says do not look on the wine when it is red. looking is the strat to drink that is the start to drunkenness..even if you personally may never give in to it.

When you were 16 you not only looked on the wine, you drank it. You disobeyed the commandment of this scripture. Whether you realize it or not if this truly is a commandment of God's word you have disobeyed His word.

Proverbs 23 :32 "At the last" of my uncle's life it bite like a serpent..."he died" unsaved and ended up in hell..even though at an young age he only had an occasional drink and their was "nothing supposedly wrong with it" for years.

I believe a married man is given a wife as a help mate and so many times I have surrendered to my wife my will in a given situation and it has been my salvation..especially in areas where I am out on the proverbial diving board and she has begged me not to jump, because from her perspective she can see the pool is empty for cleaning.

We have to sometimes give in to our wife, in laws and other family members somethings we think are ok to be able to keep the family jibbing together. I gave up sold a street motorcycle, when I had small kids because I was responsible for them and had a responsibility beyond my own life. I gave up my liberty for my family not having to worry about me. A family man sees things different that an independent man.

So alcohol is something one can lay down even if they have the liberty to drink it......we can be the bigger person in family matters and lay down our side of the contention. Contention in a family is not worth an occasional liberty. Amen?

Alcohol is something that does divide families..we do not allow alcohol on our property because of our three boys....if you come to a family picnic at our house you do not bring beer. I did not want my young boys brought up under that aurora. (If someone slips one in we do not say anything, it is a general understanding) . My boys are all in college now and none drink or even think of drinking and they get their Xian friends not to drink, showing them the scriptures. I never have to worry that they are with someone who is over .o8 and driving them somewhere. That is worth any liberty I have I can guarantee you!!

I have truly enjoyed the back and forth with you also, you have brought up great points and you seem like a great person and Christian. Enjoy your week.

[OneLight]

Let's be careful to not use blanket statements. There are people who can drink and still live a Christian life while there are those, like me, who can not. Scripture tells us not to get drunk on wine or strong drink, but to be filled with the Holy Spirit. Scripture also tells us a little wine is good for the stomach, if a person is having stomach issues, but it is not a cure all.

Stating that it is a sin to have a glass of wine is placing a stumbling block in front of your brother and sister. If drinking causes you to loose your self-control and sin, then don't drink, period. If it does not, then it is not a sin to you.

my 2

[Axxman]

I apologize if I am off topic, forgive me I haven't read all the post.

But just to comment on drinking being a sin. Jesus maybe have never drank wine (not sure if He did or not) but why would He turn water into wine then offer the wine to His followers if they weren't to drink it because it is sinful?

And what was served at the last supper? Wasn't wine offered to represent His blood?

Hiya Starting Today!!! Welcome to Worthy.

You really need to go back and read the previous pages (alot of them at this point I know)...but there has been some excellent discussion, from both sides, on those very points you made.

[artsylady]

Stating that it is a sin to have a glass of wine is placing a stumbling block in front of your brother and sister. If drinking causes you to loose your self-control and sin, then don't drink, period. [/quote

I have a slightly different interpretation on the Romans verses. We know the stronger brother finds permissible something that the weaker brother finds to be a sin, right? I just don't think the weaker brother sees the stronger brother as someone who is actually stronger. The weaker brother sees the stonger brother as being weaker. The weaker brother witnessing the act doesn't then decide to partake in whatever it is he thinks is sin - this is not where he stumbles. He decides to JUDGE the stronger brother for his decision. So if we do something permissible in front of him we may put him into judgement mode, which is not a good place to put someone who is weaker.