nebula Posted June 1, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.93 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Imagine if we gave names and faces to the 1.5 to 2 million children killed each year, and publicized these stories the way we publicize the death of one of the men who killed them? Would we be outraged, or would we tend to shrug it off when we found out they were the vicims of legal murder through abortion? Then why don't you do that!!!!???? That is not really a bad idea. There's already a Virtual Memorial Wall for aborted babies: http://www.supportpersonhood.com/ I "adopted" an unknown baby and gave her a name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted June 1, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.93 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted June 1, 2009 I find it simply amazing that a muderer gets murdered and we are all aghast, offended, and prepared to find fault with Gods Church through it all. We are more offended with the murder and what it portends about ourselves and the Faith that we have than we are at the daily murder of millions of innocent babies. Simply amazing. The debate was already so heated by the time I got to the thread that I didn't post my initial reaction. I hinted of it, but I didn't actually post it. I don't agree with taking the life of the abortionist into ones own hands. But . . . the doctor got what he deserved. Sorry if that sounds cold, but I have no more sympathy for him than Elijah had for Ahab. An upstanding church member???? That just makes me sick! Like I pointed out, "He who lives by the sword dies by the sword." And wherever the Lord deemed him to spend eternity, I do hope he saw the face of every single baby he aborted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted June 1, 2009 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.87 Content Count: 43,799 Content Per Day: 6.19 Reputation: 11,244 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted June 1, 2009 I find it simply amazing that a muderer gets murdered and we are all aghast, offended, and prepared to find fault with Gods Church through it all. We are more offended with the murder and what it portends about ourselves and the Faith that we have than we are at the daily murder of millions of innocent babies. Simply amazing. Im amazed that people here defend the murder of the abortionist. Murder of the unborn babies is wrong. Murder of the abortionist is wrong too. If folks want to stop abortion, they need to work hard to change the laws of this country and to work to convince those who want abortions to carry through with a pregnancy. Whats next? Should someone kill a pharmacist because he or she dispenses Plan B or birth control pills? 1 Corinthians 5 tells us to cast out the unrepentent sinner, not kill him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpfan76 Posted June 1, 2009 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 117 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/21/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted June 1, 2009 I wonder why the guy didn't just shoot the doc in front of his office? I wonder if this may scare abortion doctors and patients away from churches rather than clinics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damo1 Posted June 1, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,822 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/23/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/16/1967 Share Posted June 1, 2009 what i am noticing christians today are picking what they want to believe in for example most males take on what the apostle paul had to say like not forbing women to teach or have authority over a man while there are men who ignore what paul had to say to were we have these men supporting women who are in pastrol roles and leadership roles to were men are submissive to a women christians today tend to pick what sin they hate and will support it while other christians dont want to rock the boat they will be friend the sinner they wil do what ever is in there power to live in harmony with the sinner this is what i am noticing as a christian i have done an honest avaluation and have seen were i have done this my self i feel for this abortion dr and his family this never should have happend he could have been spared to were those around him discipled him and allowed god to work on him wear he could have reached out to the drs he new know think what impact this man would have had ? i can see were both sides are comming from and sometimes we take things to far wear we allow the flesh to prop its ugly head and have its way i am sure god would have wept i am sure god would have been saying wake up you fools look what can be done threw this man if you just wake up and listen to me when i talk to guys its as if some are to ashamed of what the apostle paul had to say i have to admit it i was doing the same picking what i would support and ignoring what i found hard to accept i had to repent and it was hard having to repent and paul is right by what he said to young timothy when he raised timothy up he wanted timothy to not be swayed he saw that timothy being young some of the older members would not accept timothy or wil they listen to timothy timothy could have rejected what paul had to say and done his own thing were he became submissive to a female leader 1 timothy 4 English standard version 11 let a women learn quietly with all submissivness 12 i do not permit a women to teach or to exercise authority over a man rather she is to remain quiet i have not put these verses hear to come down on the women who belong to this forum or have i left these scriptures to lord it over the women who belong to this forum what i have been shown if we are to take what is said serious then we need to let go of the doctrines we are holding on to and let gods spirit lead us like the way timothy was raised and the way the disciples were raised today christians do their own thing and if you dont show any support to there cause you get shot down in flames or get told to your face you are a flake or are told like i have been often let go of how your pastor brought you up and listen to me let me teach you i have been going over the new testament and have been asking the holy spirit to show me were jesus and his disciples came down on abortionists or bombed abortion cliniks or bashed the roman drs who would have aborted pregneceys god orded that all males were to be killed pharoh was refusing to let his peopl go yet god also hardned pharahos heart herod orders all male children to be killed we either let gods spirit teach us or we listen to our doctrines we are holding on to i am not trying to but heads hear with pro life supporters i have a boy i care for kids i dont want to see a child loose their life i care for filapino kids filapino kids get sick more easly then a child who belongs to a healthy family filapino kids hang out in the tip searching for food with the older brothers and sisters even searching threw the big bins for food that has been thrown out i saw this as we were weighting to board the ferry to take us to end our journey to manila as i was weighting out side to be let on the ferry i said to my fiance how often does this happen and she said what i pointed to a young mother with her two kids going threw the dumpsters for food and she said a lot as this mother has no support when i see a rich person look down on a poor person especialy a filapino child who is begging i get mad and i fly at the rich person just like a pro life supporter would at say a pro choice supporter wer pro choice supporters support the mother instead of the child this is something i have to give over to god i care more for a poor child then i do for a rich persons child thats just who i am as a christian yet i am having to be care full that what i hold on to does not destroy what god tends to do in my life or an abortion drs life they are humen too and they too need to be accepted just as the apostle paul was forgiven i am sure some one will pick at what i have left hear but before you pick on what i have left hear ask your self the questions i am asking know is it the doctrines you have been raised under controling you or is it his spirit controling you ? damo1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axxman Posted June 1, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 24 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,292 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/21/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted June 1, 2009 There's already a Virtual Memorial Wall for aborted babies: http://www.supportpersonhood.com/ I "adopted" an unknown baby and gave her a name. Thank you so much for sharing this!!! I visited the site and was reading some of the names...but it was the comments that hit me hard. "Your Mom and I are so sorry" "A Brother missed, but not forgotten" "I can't believe you'd be 10 this year" Broke my heart..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted June 1, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Ummm....Ok shoot me down now (no pun intended), but the best place for this doctor to be was in a church! If the church, through the Lord, was working to change his positon, where better to do it than in a church? Kick him out so that he has no direction, no boundaries. I don't think so! If we decided that all sinners should not attend, or could not attend church, where would that put all of us? Out in the cold I venture to guess. God does not grade sin. There is no sin meter. Sin is sin. Man grades sin. I don't agree with abortion, or with murder, or with any other sin, or with judging others. But have you stopped to think that maybe Jesus was working on this mans heart, and to say he deserved to die, is in itself a sin! Praying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoidAndroid Posted June 1, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 39 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 591 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/01/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/27/1979 Share Posted June 1, 2009 What disgusts me about all of this is how all the outrage here is being aimed at the church congregation for allowing such people to worship as members! It took 4 pages of responses before someone even mentioned the crimes of the anti-abortionist killer, and then it took only a page later (page 5) for someone to attempt a moral justification for the killing of an abortion doctor under the guise of "justifiable homicide" (in principle if not in action). And where the condemnation of the event did come, there was often more outrage about how this will affect the Gospel of Jesus rather than the act of murder. Someone earlier stated that "if this is Christianity, I'd rather be an atheist", and in light of what has been said in this thread, I am so close to agreement. Maybe I would not go so far as to claim atheism specifically, but I suspect that was an exaggeration to prove a point. I'm not sure the "Christian" label fits any longer - I certainly do not agree with the pro-choice movement, and indeed view abortion as akin to murder. But at the same time, the rabid fundamentalism I have seen from various Worthy-members since I became a member here has opened a door to something that I just don't recognise as Christ-like. No wonder all those atheists and non-religious people attack me because of my beliefs. They aren't attacking me, they are attacking what they think I represent - the views of bigots who are more outraged by the acceptance of a person at church than with a person who professes to be Christian who takes a gun and shoots someone in cold blood. I need a new title to identify myself to non-Christians that better represents the Faith that Jesus taught and led me to. Where's the Love, because I just can't see it anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul1149 Posted June 1, 2009 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 106 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/31/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted June 1, 2009 The reason to be concerned about this murder is that our society as a whole has sanctioned the murder of the unborn. With Tiller gone, another abortionist will arise. If abortion were only a one-practitioner issue, this would be the end of it. But it's not, so the question is how this murder is going to play out. Until and unless we have transformational change in the society we will not have reformation of its laws, and that means the babies will continue to be murdered. And that's why I don't believe that this act of vigilantism is not going to be effective. If anything, there is going to be a massive backlash against prolifers, Christians, and conservatives. And this will be used as propaganda against us in the schools. The politically correct element will become even stronger, and our freedom of speech and association will be further eroded. We have had high profile killings like this before, and the same things were said about them, but the story died down with no increase in abortions. One I remember in particular was the killing of an abortion clinic doctor in Florida. A protestor shot him dead one day at his clinic. He admitted to the killing, and insisted on defending himself. He said it was a justifiable homicide. He wound up getting the death penalty for his crime, but never expressed any remorse. There were fears of a backlash like I am hearing in this thread, and it never occured. There were fears on the side of the pro-abortion crowd he would become a martyr and there would be more shootings, and that didn't happen either. Good morning, Butero, I was on the barricades during the 80s and 90s. I saw what the violence did to the prolife movement. It had been a burgeoning force in American politics, not only in the streets but on editorial pages, talk shows, and at the ballot box. It was the issue of the decade. But when the violence came it drove a huge wedge between antiabortion activism and mainstream public opinion. It paved the way for the FOCA and the RICO Act prosecutions. People began to stay away from protests in droves, and a political solution quickly became virtually impossible. The anti-abortion movement was driven to the sidelines of American politics and became anachronistic. Tremendous harm was done by a few zealots. I can understand the motivation of the sincere ones. I personally had to think this whole thing through very carefully. But I determined that because the nation had institutionally sanctioned murder, the responsibility for the abomination rested more than on the individuals directly involved, but on the societal structure as a whole. That's why a lot of people who get abortions do so partly because they were told the repeated Big Lie about what it is, and later experience remorse, and repent; and why our hatred shouldn't be directed against them. And since the entire society is under judgment, we have to work within that context to redeem it. Moses found out that his personal solution to Israel's dire problems didn't work; it had to be done God's way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted June 1, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted June 1, 2009 America is under judgement, and one of her greatest sins is abortion. When a nation is being blessed by God, Deuteronomy 28:12 states, "The LORD shall open unto thee his good treasure, the heaven to give the rain unto thy land in his season, and to bless all the work of thine hand: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, and thou shalt not borrow. When a nation is under God's judgment, verse 44 of the same chapter states, "He shall lend to thee, and thou shalt not lend to him: he shall be the head, and thou shalt be the tail." This debt and economic calamity we are going through is a result of our sins. The answer is not to go around killing abortion clinic doctors. What we need to be doing is repenting of our sins and bringing about an end to the evil by changing the law, but it is amazing how we have so many people outraged over this man killing an abortion clinic doctor, and by comparison, making light of the mass murder being commited by the doctor. Right. Which is why if we are pro-life we can see the huge damage this guy has done to the movement. In fact when I first read the news line I thought it was possible that this was done by a pro-choice zealot as it would greatly help the pro-choice cause. We are at a critical stage in abortion politics right now. The Supreme Court is more pro-life now than in the past 30 years, there are important cases and law right now around the country, this murder could sway the entire thing against the pro-life movement. In the end this murder will likely cause more abortions and keep it legal longer. Paul had some pretty good comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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