Concerning Creation

[traveller]

I whittled several posts from this thread. Please stay on topic and stop getting personal.

Thank you.

[martin frobisher]

The fact that science relies on the assumption that there are "rules" to the universe is not proof that the universe runs in that way.

Reference the experiments of Mendel and Millikan.

[martin frobisher]

The idea that the universe only makes sense with a Biblical creation model is clearly contestable even by Christians, many of whom adhere to a belief in evolution.

[sysvr4]

Allow me to explain the concept more simply:

The mathematical model presented is an array of infinite scope and density, the values of which are implicitly random. This represents an infinite multiverse. Because the (matrix) of hypothetical values is so large, any patterns or apparent "logic" that one may observe are necessarily insignificant given the scope of the set.

The point is thus:

Intelligent design cannot be proven or even rationally implied based on random data.

No...you're looking at that logic from the perspective of a mortal. God isn't subject to the boundaries of our understanding.

Indeed not. God is entitled to as chaotic a reality as He likes.

[MorningGlory]

Indeed not. God is entitled to as chaotic a reality as He likes.

The Lord doesn't DO chaos....chaos is the purview of satan. Everything the Lord does is according to His plan.

[sysvr4]

Indeed not. God is entitled to as chaotic a reality as He likes.

The Lord doesn't DO chaos....chaos is the purview of satan. Everything the Lord does is according to His plan.

One cannot plan unpredictability?

[sysvr4]

The fact remains that the universe is ordered and uniform, and without such, science would not be possible. Diversity is not the absence of order. Exploding stars does not necessarily indicate a lack of order.

I am interested in your ideas regarding universal order and uniformity, if you could expound upon them further.

[nebula]

The fact that science relies on the assumption that there are "rules" to the universe is not proof that the universe runs in that way.

Reference the experiments of Mendel and Millikan.

The rules are a discovery to how things work, and they are used to conduct further experiments, sent satellites to other planets, and everything else scientists do. If the universe isn't ordered by these "rules" then none of these would work.

Really, I don't see how one can argue that these "rules" are not there?

[sysvr4]

The fact that science relies on the assumption that there are "rules" to the universe is not proof that the universe runs in that way.

Reference the experiments of Mendel and Millikan.

The rules are a discovery to how things work, and they are used to conduct further experiments, sent satellites to other planets, and everything else scientists do. If the universe isn't ordered by these "rules" then none of these would work.

Really, I don't see how one can argue that these "rules" are not there?

It's not that the "rules" aren't there, it's that they are insufficient. They are a vey small part of a very large picture.

[Guest shiloh357]

The fact remains that the universe is ordered and uniform, and without such, science would not be possible. Diversity is not the absence of order. Exploding stars does not necessarily indicate a lack of order.

I am interested in your ideas regarding universal order and uniformity, if you could expound upon them further.

Well I don't know exactly how to expand on them. The point I was making is that scientists depend on things working a certain way in order for them to be able to conduct experiments. The universe is generally speaking, very predictable. We can expect certain elements to interact a certain way.

As I stated, astronomers must have an ordered universe in order to make predictions about the movements of stars, planets, asteroids, etc. They absolutely depend on uniformity. EVERY field/discpline within science operates as if the univsere is designed, whether they acknowledge the Designer or not.

My earlier point was also that it is the Bible that guarantees this continued order. God tells us in Gen. 8:22 that we can depend on the rotation of the seasons. The Bible tells us that God maintains and sustains the entire universe He created.

God designed the earth and indeed the entire universe to be studied and searched out. I have even read articles in the past written by scientists who claim that our earth/solar system's location in the Milkyway places it is the perfect observational location for the study and exploration of space. Far from being a hinderence to science, the Bible is a proponent of science as a means of understanding the extent and scope of God's creation. Science, when employed to truly learn about the univsere, is a means of glorifying God.

Those of us who believe the Bible is correct, expect such uniformity and regularity because we believe in a personal creator, who designed, planned, sustains and guides the created order. The Bible says that God sustains all things by his power (Hebrews 1:3). So we expect the universe to operate in a logical manner because God is logical, consistent and omnipresent.