What is the Mark of the Beast?

[BlindSeeker]

If you read it, you will have an understanding on the differences. That was what you wanted, is it not?

Alright I read some of it. Wow. Never even heard of that. Thanks for sharing the link.

Just remember, the truth need not be confined to either of these conflicting beliefs (Calvinist versus Arminian) for they are like the swings of a pendulum.

I believe you'll find it more in the middle . . .

[OneLight]

If you read it, you will have an understanding on the differences. That was what you wanted, is it not?

Alright I read some of it. Wow. Never even heard of that. Thanks for sharing the link.

Just remember, the truth need not be confined to either of these conflicting beliefs (Calvinist versus Arminian) for they are like the swings of a pendulum.

I believe you'll find it more in the middle . . .

Absolutely true.

[mizzdy]

Since I think the beast is islam I went looking to see if there was something similar in their teachings and found (I'll have to find it again) that there is indeed a mark of islam, allahs name written on the forehead with letter symbols if I remember right. Supposedly islam, to counter act the 'false' sealing of the 144 thousand, all of islam, will be required to have the mark on their foreheads. Anyone not taking this will may be killed. Also I understand as the years go by and those who prostrate themselves faithfully seem to develop a black mark on their foreheads, thought that was interesting.

I have begun to read the Qur'an in an effort to fight against the false belief that there is such a thing as a moderate Muslim. So please if you could tell me where you got this info.

Walid Shoebat and Joel Richardson co-wrote a book called G-ds War On Terror. Also this past weekend Calvary Chapel had Shoebat for a speaker and he described the mark also. Theres another guy out there but vids of his are hard to find on the net his name is Mani Erfan, he does have a few youtubes, the titles are What Every Christian Should Know About Islam. For a really good (I think) biblical view as to why islam is the beast is Rico Cortes, he is a messianic or hebrew roots teacher but his biblical explanations are completely roted in scriptures, I can give you the links if you are interested. I will try and find the particular study about this and if I forget to post it please remind me. As far as the black mark goes you can find that with a google search there are many articles about that I believe.

Yes I am very interested. The Qur'ran has proved to be an interesting read. I am only into the book 60 or so pages and I have already found several verses that controdict each other. A verse that advocates beating your wife into submission. The Qur'ran uses the word "We" when supposedly God is speaking but the Qur'an says that God does not have more then one entity. I have many questions that need to be answered from an Islamic prospective.

http://www.godslearningchannel.com/tools/vod/ Scroll down to the name of Rico Cortes, he has two series all from the biblical perspective, one is calle Is Islam the Beast and Who is Amalek. I think that talk by Walid Shoebat in the link I posted earlier is a great one and put Turkey smack in the middle of things.

[Guest kaoticprofit]

r

Edited September 13, 2009 by kaoticprofit

[mizzdy]

Scroll down to the name of Rico Cortes, he has two series all from the biblical perspective, one is called Is Islam the Beast and Who is Amalek. I think that talk by Walid Shoebat in the link I posted earlier is a great one and put Turkey smack in the middle of things.

Walid has a host of articles on Islam. My favorites are, "Allah, divine or demonic". And, "Islam and the final beast".

It's sad that so many still consider Rome as the origin of the beast. Rome's power has been declining since the 13th century. Whereas Islam has been gaining strength ever since and has always converted by the sword.

K

The Ottoman empires is smack dab where the eastern leg of the roman empire was so in a sense yes it is about the rise of a fallen kingdom but it goes much more deeply than that I think. None of these muslim countries could rise in any power unless the 'western' powers allowed it to do so and they do by political correctness. With our firing a single shot muslims are gathering and garnering power in almost every country they settle in, there is no need to take things by force if many are willingly giving it away. Did you by chance watch the vid by Cortes? Its a good series.

[Guest kaoticprofit]

d

Edited September 13, 2009 by kaoticprofit

[HAZARD]

I would like to continue this discussion.

I didn't get a chance to reply to this and I would like too.

As I said, I'm willing to look at other interpretations. If you have one, I would like the hear it.

How about it just being literal?

How long do you think it would take to physically mark every person who worships the beast?

Revelation 13

16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads,

Notice the Word says "all", not just some, but "all". That's a lot of people. The world population right now stands at 6,776,331,434. That's well over 6 billion. Even if you cut that number in half, that's still a lot of people. And those numbers are todays population. What will those numbers be next year, five years, or ten years from now?

That's only one item to be considered when we look at what the mark of the beast will be.

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None of what I'm saying is etched in stone. I'm just putting it out there for consideration.

As I stated, if there are other interpretations, I would like to hear them. If you believe it to be taken as literal, let's discuss the possibilities of how that can be accomplished.

Instead of arguing about who's right and who's wrong, let's discuss it and see where it takes us.

There will be three things men will have a choice of taking in the days of the Antichrist: The mark of Antichrist, his name, or the number of his name. What the Antichrist's name and mark will be is not stated in Scripture; but the number of his name is stated as being 666. Therefore, no man can now know his name or his mark and will never be able to know them untill the Antichrist comes. However, anyone now can know that 666 is the number of his name, as revealed in Revelation 13:18.

All that is revealed is the number of his name. His mark will not be known untill he reveales it himself. If anyone unwittingly or even unwillingly receive a mark of the beast, they will neven be rejected by God. It is only those who willingly and willfully do such things who will be rejected.

Regarding the Antichrist ruling the whole world, the scriptures speak in context of the whole world as was then known. For example, regarding the Extent of Antichrist's Reign (Rev. 13:5-18) (Dan.7:23).

The question often arises, "Will the Antichrist have power over all kindreds, tongues, and nations, and will all that dwell on Earth worship him?" While this can generally be answered in the affirmative, still much depends on what is meant by all. If all is used in the most inclusive sense and is meant to include every individual in the known world today, we can say that he will not have this power, but if it is taken to mean all that God has in mind-the latter day ten kingdoms of old Rome--we can say that all will include all affected by the decree made by the Antichrist in his empire.

The following points from scripture prove that the Antichrist will not rule over America or be a World Wide Dictator as many students of prophecy teach.

1. The word all in Rev.13 is simply part of the figure of speach called "synecdoche" in which a part is used for a whole and a whole for a part. It is frequently used in scripture as in the following examples:

1."I even I do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherin is the breath of life, from under heaven; and EVERY THING that is in the earth shall die" (Gen.6:17). If we look at this literally as men do Rev.13, we would have Noah and his family and all the animals in the ark dead, for they were also under the Heaven and in the earth and yet did not die.

2. " And they utterly destroyed ALL THAT WERE IN THE CITY, both men and women" refering to the people in Jerico when the wall fell, but "all" here must be understood in a limited sense, for Rahab and all her people were spared (Josh. 6:21-25).

3. "David and ALL THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL played before the Lord" and brought up the ark" (2 Sam.6:5,15). yet not all Israel did this, for many did not know how to play instruments and many were too young and still many more were not even gathered at that one place.

4. "Six months did Joab remain there [out of his own country] with ALL ISRAEL untill he had cut off every male in Edom" (1 Kings 11:16,17). The "ALL ISRAEL" referred to here is part of the army of Israel.

5. In Rom.1:8 Paul said, "Your faith is spoken of throughout the WHOLE WORLD," but we know he meant only that the local church at Rome was known by many in the various parts of the Roman Empire. Multitudes outside of Rome, and even many inside the Empire of Rome had never yet heard of the Christian faith, much less of the local church at Rome. The same thing is true of Col. 1:23 where we read that the gospel had been "Preached to EVERY CREATURE UNDER HEAVEN" and in Rom. 10:18 it was preached "INTO ALL THE EARTH" and ''UNTO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD" The gospel has not even yet been taken to all nations, so we know the whole world was not evangelized in Paul's day.

6. In Acts 11:28 we read of a dearth [famin] "THROUGHOUT ALL THE WORLD" which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar. That famin did not cover every part of the Roman Empire much less all continents and islands of the world.

Many hundreds of examples can be given to demonstrate the word ALL is used in a figurative sense of a part, so we do not need to believe that Rev.13 and Dan.7:23 means that the Antichrist of the future will literally reign over all the earth and kill all who do not take his mark.

We must, therefore, understand the way the word "all" is supposed to be understood in a particular scripture. If it means ALL in the all inclusive sense then there will be no limitations to it in the passage itself or in other scriptures on the same subject. If it means ALL of what it has reference to specifically and it is clear that it means a part of something and this is made clear in the passage itself or in other passages on the same subject, then we must be sensible to recognize the fact that ALL is not inclusive of all men on earth.

For example, when Paul said of God that it was His will that "ALL men come to the knowledge of the truth" (1Tim.2:24), we know that this means ALL MEN without exception. But when we read of ALL MEN being baptized of John and in the same passage and in other passages on the subject, it is made clear that many were not baptized, then we take it as a figurative statement expressing that a great many in the region were baptized of John. We can see in both Testaments that God used universal terms in speaking of the extent of certain kingdoms and the powers of certain kings. We can also see that these terms show that only a great part of the earth was ruled by these kings and empires. We can therefore logically conclude that the extent of Antichrists kingdom and power could likewise be limited to a part of the world. Because we can find a number of scriptures limiting his power and authority to a part of the Earth, and they plainly tell us what part of the Earth will be under him and what part will not be under him then we must limit the "ALL" of Rev.13 and Dan. 7:23 to what territory he rules over and not make it universal as many prophetical students do.

[BlindSeeker]

The following points from scripture prove that the Antichrist will not rule over America or be a World Wide Dictator as many students of prophecy teach.

1. The word all in Rev.13 is simply part of the figure of speach called "synecdoche" in which a part is used for a whole and a whole for a part. It is frequently used in scripture as in the following examples:

1."I even I do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherin is the breath of life, from under heaven; and EVERY THING that is in the earth shall die" (Gen.6:17). If we look at this literally as men do Rev.13, we would have Noah and his family and all the animals in the ark dead, for they were also under the Heaven and in the earth and yet did not die.

2. " And they utterly destroyed ALL THAT WERE IN THE CITY, both men and women" refering to the people in Jerico when the wall fell, but "all" here must be understood in a limited sense, for Rahab and all her people were spared (Josh. 6:21-25).

3. "David and ALL THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL played before the Lord" and brought up the ark" (2 Sam.6:5,15). yet not all Israel did this, for many did not know how to play instruments and many were too young and still many more were not even gathered at that one place.

4. "Six months did Joab remain there [out of his own country] with ALL ISRAEL untill he had cut off every male in Edom" (1 Kings 11:16,17). The "ALL ISRAEL" referred to here is part of the army of Israel.

5. In Rom.1:8 Paul said, "Your faith is spoken of throughout the WHOLE WORLD," but we know he meant only that the local church at Rome was known by many in the various parts of the Roman Empire. Multitudes outside of Rome, and even many inside the Empire of Rome had never yet heard of the Christian faith, much less of the local church at Rome. The same thing is true of Col. 1:23 where we read that the gospel had been "Preached to EVERY CREATURE UNDER HEAVEN" and in Rom. 10:18 it was preached "INTO ALL THE EARTH" and ''UNTO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD" The gospel has not even yet been taken to all nations, so we know the whole world was not evangelized in Paul's day.

6. In Acts 11:28 we read of a dearth [famin] "THROUGHOUT ALL THE WORLD" which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar. That famin did not cover every part of the Roman Empire much less all continents and islands of the world.

Please highlight that evidence for me . . . . the part about America and all . . .

[Capnmike02]

I would like to continue this discussion.

I didn't get a chance to reply to this and I would like too.

As I said, I'm willing to look at other interpretations. If you have one, I would like the hear it.

How about it just being literal?

How long do you think it would take to physically mark every person who worships the beast?

Revelation 13

16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads,

Notice the Word says "all", not just some, but "all". That's a lot of people. The world population right now stands at 6,776,331,434. That's well over 6 billion. Even if you cut that number in half, that's still a lot of people. And those numbers are todays population. What will those numbers be next year, five years, or ten years from now?

That's only one item to be considered when we look at what the mark of the beast will be.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

None of what I'm saying is etched in stone. I'm just putting it out there for consideration.

As I stated, if there are other interpretations, I would like to hear them. If you believe it to be taken as literal, let's discuss the possibilities of how that can be accomplished.

Instead of arguing about who's right and who's wrong, let's discuss it and see where it takes us.

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In the Hebrew culture, and especially in that time when people accepted prophecy as it is, the "right hand" signified strengths, for work or war, and of course the "forehead" always symbolically implied "On one`s mind" as in The Older Writings "Old Testament" when God commanded the Israelites to "Bind the Word, on their foreheads' and their "arms"...

Of course, they took this injunction in the merely temporal sense and thus the "phylactery" was created...

[mizzdy]

The Ottoman empires is smack dab where the eastern leg of the roman empire was so in a sense yes it is about the rise of a fallen kingdom but it goes much more deeply than that I think. None of these muslim countries could rise in any power unless the 'western' powers allowed it to do so and they do by political correctness. With our firing a single shot muslims are gathering and garnering power in almost every country they settle in, there is no need to take things by force if many are willingly giving it away. Did you by chance watch the vid by Cortes? Its a good series.

We are already in the Middle East trying to do something that will never work.

I think the US military will be destroyed as well as Israel. The bible says, "the mighty men (US) and the holy people will be destroyed".

A ten nation Islamic Empire is coming soon. And so is tribulation. It's time to prepare as we will all be here to endure it.

I don't know who Cortes is!

K

Rico Cortes does a series about Islam being the beast you can find the link in post 86.