What lessons can be learned from these?

[nebula]

Having been a Christian, listening to sermons in church and conferences and TV and radio, and such for my entire life, it seems I've heard pretty much all there is to hear. At least, it seems the older I get the more I hear the same teachings over and over again.

But then I considered something. Practically every story in the Bible has been dug into for what lessons we could learn - except for . . . well . . . the ones we don't want to talk about to your children. . . . .

And I am wondering - other than to gloss it over with, "Well, it just shows how evil people can be," and moving on, what can we actually learn from these accounts?

Judah's daughter-in-law

Tamar

The Levite's concubine in Judges

There's got to be something more than merely explaining history in what is written - isn't there?

[~candice~]

Having been a Christian, listening to sermons in church and conferences and TV and radio, and such for my entire life, it seems I've heard pretty much all there is to hear. At least, it seems the older I get the more I hear the same teachings over and over again.

But then I considered something. Practically every story in the Bible has been dug into for what lessons we could learn - except for . . . well . . . the ones we don't want to talk about to your children. . . . .

And I am wondering - other than to gloss it over with, "Well, it just shows how evil people can be," and moving on, what can we actually learn from these accounts?

Judah's daughter-in-law

Tamar

The Levite's concubine in Judges

There's got to be something more than merely explaining history in what is written - isn't there?

Our church just finished a sermon series on Judges and we finished with the Levite's concubine. It was sickening! Ewww...

But it really does highlight just how foul and degraded Israel (and us!) get when "there is no King in Israel" and "everyone did what was right in their own eyes". (Two phrases that are repeated throughout Judges).

Someone said something really interesting about this... we don't like to read it because it is so disgusting, and we can silently think to ourselves, oh thank God I am not like that! But we really are. We are sinful and fall well short of the glory of God.

The Benjaminites initially wanted to rape the men. They were perverse homosexuals. And this was a tribe of Israel! It reminded me about just how wrong it is for God's people to reject His ways and to do what is right in their own eyes, just like we are seeing at the moment with the ELCA.

I think the concubine being cut up and sent to the tribes of Israel was a wake up call about just how far Israel has fallen from God's ways. I remember reading in the beginning, when Joshua had just died, and they had just started in the promised land, all the hope and excitement. Long gone were those days now!!!

How often do we have pieces of a concubine land on our doorstep? How often do we see the evidence of how far the church and God's people have fallen from His ways. Do we have the same reaction that Israel had?

[jesussaves]

Genesis 38 (New King James Version)

Genesis 38

Judah and Tamar

1 It came to pass at that time that Judah departed from his brothers, and visited a certain Adullamite whose name was Hirah. 2 And Judah saw there a daughter of a certain Canaanite whose name was Shua, and he married her and went in to her. 3 So she conceived and bore a son, and he called his name Er. 4 She conceived again and bore a son, and she called his name Onan. 5 And she conceived yet again and bore a son, and called his name Shelah. He was at Chezib when she bore him.

6 Then Judah took a wife for Er his firstborn, and her name was Tamar. 7 But Er, Judah

[nebula]

How often do we have pieces of a concubine land on our doorstep? How often do we see the evidence of how far the church and God's people have fallen from His ways. Do we have the same reaction that Israel had?

Judah was both humble and merciful toward Tamar, but only after his own sin was exposed to him. Key words...to him. Before Tamar confronted him he was blind to his own sinfulness. The Lord, at times has to bring us to a place that we must confront ourselves; see ourselves as people of unclean lips like Isaiah did. We must acknowledge our righteousness is as filthy rags before a Holy God. It is then that we can see His great mercy toward us and how awesome His love is.

Good answers!

Thank-you!

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

How often do we have pieces of a concubine land on our doorstep?

Good point.

We see evidence of the vile practice of abortion on unborn babies and pieces of them displayed all the time. We do have pieces of the concubine shpowing up on our doorsteps and yet we will not repent. Matter of fact, if you mention it in Church, people get offended and say, "It's too much!"

Peace,

Dave

[anitarose]

Something else you have to consider about Tamar, Judah's daughter in law:

By conceiving a child through Judah, Tamar became part of the Messianic line (read Matthew and Luke for clarification). That line also included Rahab the harlot, and Ruth the Moabitess. YHWH has reasons for doing what He does, and it just might be that He motivated Tamar to meet Judah that day---also the fact that Tamar wasn't given to Judah's youngest son didn't help either.

As for the concubine, it was a quick notice to the tribes of Israel that they had gone down the wrong path. If you notice further on in Judges, they almost allowed the line of Benjamin to die out, and they came to themselves and asked what kind of blessing would they have if they lost even one tribe? They had vowed before YHWH that none of the tribes would give Benjamin a wife. There was an answer for that as well, if you read the last chapter.

YHWH has reasons for everything He does. We as finite humans don't understand His reasonings, but when we look at them through the light of His Word, things become clearer.

a.

[Openly Curious]

It was an awful thing that befell the Levite and his concubine all because of homosexuality. The man who took the Levite and his concubine in for the night told the sons of belial who surrounded his house calling out for the Levite who he took in for the night so they could know him meaning in a perverse sexual union that was against nature and forbidden to be done. To keep this vile act from happening he offered his own daughter and the Levites concubine to them but the sons of belial wouldn't hearken to the owner of the house. So the Levite took his concubine and gives her over to the sons of belial.

Even though the story happened so long ago my heart still goes out in what she had to suffer. The sons of belial all of them raped and abused her all that night up to the morning and let her go.

The concubine was able to make it to the door of the house where the Levite was at for the night. She fell at the door until it was all the way daylight. And the Levite opened up the door to go on his way home and he saw her and called out to her but she had already died.

The Levite put's her on his donkey and goes back to his home when he got home he takes a knife and cuts her up into twelve pieces and each of those twelve pieces was sent out to all the twelve tribes of Israel. And when the tribes saw it they said, there was never such a deed done since they came up out of Egypt. [Judges 19]

[Judges 20] All the tribes came together as "ONE MAN" and the leaders came together and wanted the Levite to tell them what happened unto his wife. The Levite told how the sons of belial surrounded the house where he lodged for the night and they wanted to know him and they took his wife and raped and abused her all night up to the morning and she died and I took her when I got home and cut her into twelve pieces and sent those pieces out all over the land of Israel to each tribe so that all Israel would know that it was the sons of belial that did the lewdness and folly to his wife. The Levite asked for there advice and counsel on what to do about it. And all the people got up as "ONE MAN" and told the Levite none of them would return home.

The children of Israel got together and put a strategy together in order to destroy all those who commited folly in Israel. vs 11) So all the men of Israel were gathered against the city, "KNIT" together as "ONE MAN"

The children of Israel asked to deliver the sons of belial over to them in order that they may put them to death and put away evil from Israel.

All of the children of Israel came together with one mind and one accord with one purpose and that was to put the sons of belial to death in order to get rid of the evil they brought to Israel.

Of, course the story continues but I am amazed at how they all was "KNIT" together in order to put away evil from among them.

[Colossians 2:2]--That their hearts might be comforted, being "KNIT" together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;

[2 Corinthians 6:14-15]--Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

vs 15) And what concord hath with "BELIAL?" or what part

hath he that believeth with an infidel? (someone who has no moral principles in which to guide them having no compehension to light at all walking in darkness.)

blessings

oc

I took

[Guest Butero]

Having been a Christian, listening to sermons in church and conferences and TV and radio, and such for my entire life, it seems I've heard pretty much all there is to hear. At least, it seems the older I get the more I hear the same teachings over and over again.

But then I considered something. Practically every story in the Bible has been dug into for what lessons we could learn - except for . . . well . . . the ones we don't want to talk about to your children. . . . .

And I am wondering - other than to gloss it over with, "Well, it just shows how evil people can be," and moving on, what can we actually learn from these accounts?

Judah's daughter-in-law

Tamar

The Levite's concubine in Judges

There's got to be something more than merely explaining history in what is written - isn't there?

You are right in that we do tend to ignore some of the stories that show people in a bad light, and we shouldn't do that. What can be learned from these stories? In the first one, you see a lesson in hypocrisy, as Judah had made a promise to Tamar he didn't keep. Tamar's actions were a result of his sins towards her. In addition, Judah wasn't exactly innocent when he was willing to pay a prostitute for sex. In the other story, you see an example of how sinful people can be, and how the wages of sin is death. You see an example of people actually trying to defend the wicked, like those of the tribe of Benjamin had done.

[sheya joie]

Something I find interesting is that Tamar gave birth to twin boys - one son to inherit for each of her late husbands.

[tah]

I don't know how to follow a thread without posting so ..here I post...