LGBT March on D.C. today

[Guest HIS girl]

'kross'

I Still, I would rather see the gospel spread and souls saved.

HIS Peace

Totally -

EVERYBODY is a soul worth saving.

Just calm down a bit. (re: your previous post.)

[kross]

'kross'

I Still, I would rather see the gospel spread and souls saved.

HIS Peace

Totally -

EVERYBODY is a soul worth saving.

Just calm down a bit. (re: your previous post.)

I am quite calm and, could you see my demeanor, you would see I make my statements in very matter-of-fact kind of way. Yes, I am a little condemning of the actions of some of my Christian bretheren, but not without foundation or understanding. I have seen the fruit of their actions first hand.

Thank you for your grace.

HIS peace to you and yours (I keep wanting to add Girly Girl to that farewell but that didn't go over so well the first time.LOL)

[Smalcald]

Around 2-3% of the population is gay.

Right now it is in "vogue" to take this gay perversion on as a civil rights issue. People need an enemy, the so called Left wing, needs an enemy, and we are it right now. What fun is it to protest if you have no one to vilify?

The question is how much ammunition do we want to give them?

I say speak the truth, and lead with our actions, we are to be "blameless and harmless in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation" these words of Paul I think fit exactly how we should be right now. In the end 2-3% of the population afflicted with this disorder will fade back into their life, the key is we need to be a rock, we need to look at the long haul, where will our congregations be two or three hundred years from now? Are we preparing the future on solid ground?

I am not called to minister to gay people; I think Kross is, so we should support him in his efforts.

[Botz]

Ladies and gentlemen,

What I have read in this thread is that there are people who would rather stand in condemnation of sinners than try to break down the barriers that have resulted in signs decrying us as hateful and intolerent.

It seems that there are many who feel they have removed the beam from their own eye. I do not feel that way about me. I am far from the perfection of JESUS and as such I can not stand and point fingers at others who are far from that perfection.

It is my opinion that the greater sin lies with those who have built the barriers between sinner and savior than with the sinners who are trapped in sin and can not know any better.

Since I seem to be the minority here, I am ready to bow out of the conversation.

Kross...Although I haven't posted, I have been reading what has been posted and happen to agree with you 100%...it is not a question of compromise but truly demonstrating the love of G-d but without the chains of heavy condemnation...I am sure we are all aware of the goals of the Homosexual lobby, and many militant homosexuals, but much of the Churches attitude to this group of people has been horrible....and as you say in the body they are often talked about as if they are vermin.

[OneLight]

Let me ask this question. If a homosexual tells us that they have accepted Jesus as their savior, became ordained as a pastor and now has a church they are a head of (all which has been done), are they really in His will?

If you say yes, I ask that you present scripture to back your statement.

If you say no, how would you approach this person, and their church, to tell them they are wrong without condemning their actions?

[Guest LadyC]

kross, i'd like to ask a question, and i'd like a very direct answer from you.

how do you lead a homosexual to Christ if you're not telling them that they have to walk away from their homosexual lifestyle?

[kross]

kross, i'd like to ask a question, and i'd like a very direct answer from you.

how do you lead a homosexual to Christ if you're not telling them that they have to walk away from their homosexual lifestyle?

I hate to say it out loud, but I never tell anybody that I have lead to the LORD that they have to do anything for salvation other than accept what JESUS did for them on the cross and turn their life over to HIM. It is up to GOD to clean the fish, I just land them.

I do the same for people who smoke, do drugs, are caught up in other sins and addictions. I have never seen JESUS fail to act in the hearts of those who have been loved into the kingdom.

If I were a sinless person, I would tell people they have to be sinless to worship GOD. Since I am not, I do. I know salvation is of the LORD and so is sanctification. I have never seen the HOLY SPIRIT fail to convict the saved of their sins.

Different understandings of what is required to be saved results in different aproaches to sharing the message of salvation.

None of this gets done if you can not first break down the walls.

[Guest LadyC]

really? you never tell anyone whom you lead to the Lord that they have to repent and give their lives to Jesus? if you're leading them to the hill and not telling them how to get to the cross than i hate to tell ya, but you're not landing a single fish for God to clean. if you are letting a person believe that they can "turn their life over to Christ" while still actively engaging in homosexual behaviour, you're not doing them any favors. i can't count how many times i've heard a homosexual claim to be a devoted christian, sincerely believing that they can live their life according to their flesh and still be accepted into God's kindgom.

now, when i witness to a gay person, or a drug addict, or an alcoholic or whatever, i don't tell them "you have to give this up to be saved", i tell them to ask the Lord's forgiveness and for His help in turning away from those things that separate them from Him. do you not do anything of the sort? do you LET THEM BELIEVE that it is ok to have homosexual relationships and still serve God? do you not shine the light of salvation on their path so they can choose the truth or reject it?

[Guest LadyC]

by the way, you act as though you're the only one who can "break down walls" with gay people. i've had numerous friends who were gay, numerous neighbors, and in the past, even roommates who were gay. and not once did i EVER make any of them angry when i witnessed the TRUTH IN LOVE to them. not once did any of them ever start trying to avoid me, or accuse me of condemning them, or anything. and i suspect that the vast, vast majority of christians have the exact same experience when witnessing to the gay people they cross paths with. because we tell them the TRUTH, (the WHOLE TRUTH) in a loving manner without condemnation.

unfortunately, by your silence, if you're not sharing the whole truth with them, by letting them believe (even if only because of your silence) that they can enter the kingdom of heaven as a practicing homosexual, then YOU are condemning them.

[kross]

Let me ask this question. If a homosexual tells us that they have accepted Jesus as their savior, became ordained as a pastor and now has a church they are a head of (all which has been done), are they really in His will?

If you say yes, I ask that you present scripture to back your statement.

If you say no, how would you approach this person, and their church, to tell them they are wrong without condemning their actions?

Time to come clean;

The person who lead me to the LORD was a Black (I'm white) homosexual (I am not) male who took me in as a room mate when I was looking homeless and jobless dead in the face. He was one of the most passionate men of GOD I have ever met. Every day he would spend hours on his face praying to GOD for his deliverence and crying his eyes out.

He never got that deliverence. He is a passionate homosexual male fighting his sin every day of his life and trusting in the promise that all who call upon the name of the LORD will be saved. Now, to some Chrisitians, he is not worthy to worship with them. He is not welcome in their church and he has felt more than a little hate and intolerence.

I know he is one of GOD's truly elect and a better Christian than most I have met.

Now, as I stated before, no homosexual should be ordained to the ministry if they are practicing homosexuality. No church should join two people of the same sex in marriage. Any church who ordains women or homosexuals to the pulpit are wrong and doing what is contrary to scripture. No Christian and no church should condone homosexual behavior.

Equally, no Christian should spend their time trying to establish a life style or way of living for anyone who is not a Christian. What we do as Chrisitans, in the Christian community to establish life styles and a list of do's and don'ts is appropriet for those who are GOD's children. We should not compromise either speaking truth or living our lives. But, as scripture clearly states, it is not our place to judge those outside of the church. Lead them to the LORD and then explain what a Christian life looks like. Better yet, model one.

I have no problem with telling the pastor of a Metropolitan church and some of his flock that the teachings and twistings being used to say homosexuality is not a sin is not true. I have read the junk and have heard it spewed. I believe in boldly proclaiming truth to the bretheren with clear and sharp rebuke when they do wrong.

As you can tel by some of what I have written in this thread.

OK, bowing out now