Church Gimmick Fills Pews

[MorningGlory]

Come on, Axx, you act like you're surprised by all this. Why would you be? Isn't it the same old, same old...'if everyone doesn't do everything the way I do then they're wrong' spiel that repeated on this forum about nearly every subject? It grows tiresome, eh?

Yeah...I kinda do take it personally because I hear alot of the same stuff about my church. My church is huge (membership-wise) therefore everything we do is called into question. "Oh, your a mega-church? You must be an apostate!"

I guess it shouldn't surprise me...but I do wanna stick up for them if I can. (Seems I've been sticking up for the "wrong" people alot lately... )

One should hold to their principles as long as they don't contradict the Word of God. If you believe in your church then support them! My church promotes the rodeo lifestyle (it's a Cowboy Church), plays heavy rock music during church services and is very much into fund raising for missionaries and many other things. They are STILL a Bible based church though. And attendance is through the roof. Times change and, if the old ways don't attract the worshippers, then the church has to try different things. As long as they're Bibical, there's no harm.

[CSLewis]

The question I have is worship about God or is it about me? Is it centered around the cross and scripture or is it centered around promoting a lifestyle? At the heart of worship is it about God or is it about us?

I love rock music too and my faded blue jeans - but it's not about me it is about Him.

[MorningGlory]

The question I have is worship about God or is it about me? Is it centered around the cross and scripture or is it centered around promoting a lifestyle? At the heart of worship is it about God or is it about us?

I love rock music too and my faded blue jeans - but it's not about me it is about Him.

Of course it's about Him...always. But churches have to attract worshippers....it's just the way it is. Once they come in then they can hear the Word.

[OneLight]

Hi Onelight....sorry computer was down for a day...beastly bugs!

I don't think you understood that I was not quoting Isaiah 6:8....I was referencing a members post who goes by that name...just check back a ways....so there ain't any twisting of Scripture going on...and I am aware that any of us can be misled and make mistakes from the Pastor to the newest convert....and we do.

Sorry, I say what looked like scripture and I immediately went there. My bad!

I did not know I needed to reply directly to the Scripture you gave from Ephesians, where you equate what this Pastor is attempting as being party to vs 14:'THE TRICKERY OF MEN'...it is in the context of deliberate deception, and I think that is a very harsh judgment on the guy. I don't really see it as gambling either, because no one is losing any money or getting addicted to something that takes over their lives.

I have to ask, do you think Christ would do such a thing? Are we not to be His ambassador, to be like Him?

You and I might not do what this Pastor is doing....but we don't know him, we don't know if he is just interested in making headlines or proud of getting a large congregation or is actually trying out an idea that enables him to both teach the congregation, and preach to the unconverted, and yet people are making all sorts of judgments here, as if they know him personally.

I don't judge his salvation and never would. I can judge his actions as we are told to do.

I still have not seen one thing by which I feel I can condemn him...in fact the opposite, for whether he is right or wrong, he has some chutzpah and some vitality in him, and appears to be trying his best.

I too am dead against all sorts of trickery I have witnessed in the Church...but this man is not trying to trick anyone...and I do not see 'Church' as some sort of Holy place...it is a building, nothing more, nothing less....and as for wearing suits out of some sort of respect and just sing the tradition classical hymns, may be ok for some, but is not a blue-print for others.

Anyway...as someone has already stated, there are two schools of thought here....and both schools are based on a certain amount of assumption and speculation...on the one hand are those of us who say...'give the guy a break' on the other side are those that say 'string him up real high'. Are they both 'zealous for the L-rd'?...I guess only the L-rd can know as He looks into our hearts and sees our motives for saying what we think.

He does have some chutzpah. Many do their best, but they be doing it wrong. What would you think if a pastor decided to give a keg of beer to the one luck person sitting in the right place if they came to church? Same idea, just different substance.

[Fez]

Come on, Axx, you act like you're surprised by all this. Why would you be? Isn't it the same old, same old...'if everyone doesn't do everything the way I do then they're wrong' spiel that repeated on this forum about nearly every subject? It grows tiresome, eh?

Yeah...I kinda do take it personally because I hear alot of the same stuff about my church. My church is huge (membership-wise) therefore everything we do is called into question. "Oh, your a mega-church? You must be an apostate!"

I guess it shouldn't surprise me...but I do wanna stick up for them if I can. (Seems I've been sticking up for the "wrong" people alot lately... )

One should hold to their principles as long as they don't contradict the Word of God. If you believe in your church then support them! My church promotes the rodeo lifestyle (it's a Cowboy Church), plays heavy rock music during church services and is very much into fund raising for missionaries and many other things. They are STILL a Bible based church though. And attendance is through the roof. Times change and, if the old ways don't attract the worshippers, then the church has to try different things. As long as they're Bibical, there's no harm.

What I like about my church is that it is about family. We are small compared to our relating churches (2000 - 3000 or so), and comprise of about 60 families. And it is this that has attracted people to the church. They say that they just feel at home from day one.

One wonderful problem we have is that we have raised leaders, many who leave to go and start churches, or take over churches who for various reasons are struggling. The home group I host for instance has grown to 23 people when everyone attends (which is not always), and we are now seeking answers as to if we should start an evening service instead of the home group. He will answer in good time..... we also really need new leaders to be shown to us in our church, we are spread thin on the ground in all that we do at the moment. People are getting tired and we need more leaders

[nikki1]

Axxman

Christ's church is NOT moving further into apostasy or becoming part of the world. Having fun and living joyful happy lives is not a sign of apostasy or worldliness no matter how much you want it to be. My church is incredibly fun and the Lord blesses my church tremendously...even though we give away tons of our tithes to people. Go ahead...tell me how gimmicky and sinful we are for giving money away

If Christ's church has not been moving into apostasy, it would not be using worldly gimmicks to prey on the lost. Good, I'm happy that your church gives away tithes, but we're not talking about your church giving away tithes.

You seem to be confusing having fun in the spirit of the Lord, with extra-biblical worldly gimmicks. I am all for having fun and joy in the Lord, which is totally scriptural and Bible believing churches do all the time. This is what I said, and not your intepretation of what I said.

Nikki

Neither Jesus nor any of his chosen apostles ever used worldly gimmicks and deceptions to bring the lost into His kingdom and we don't have the authority to cheapen His name or His church by doing so either. Jesus quoted God's Word from the Old Testament as He taught His followers, and did miracles to prove who He was.

Blessings,

Nikki

[Believer1997]

Come on, Axx, you act like you're surprised by all this. Why would you be? Isn't it the same old, same old...'if everyone doesn't do everything the way I do then they're wrong' spiel that repeated on this forum about nearly every subject? It grows tiresome, eh?

Yeah...I kinda do take it personally because I hear alot of the same stuff about my church. My church is huge (membership-wise) therefore everything we do is called into question. "Oh, your a mega-church? You must be an apostate!"

I guess it shouldn't surprise me...but I do wanna stick up for them if I can. (Seems I've been sticking up for the "wrong" people alot lately... )

One should hold to their principles as long as they don't contradict the Word of God. If you believe in your church then support them! My church promotes the rodeo lifestyle (it's a Cowboy Church), plays heavy rock music during church services and is very much into fund raising for missionaries and many other things. They are STILL a Bible based church though. And attendance is through the roof. Times change and, if the old ways don't attract the worshippers, then the church has to try different things. As long as they're Bibical, there's no harm.

What I like about my church is that it is about family. We are small compared to our relating churches (2000 - 3000 or so), and comprise of about 60 families. And it is this that has attracted people to the church. They say that they just feel at home from day one.

One wonderful problem we have is that we have raised leaders, many who leave to go and start churches, or take over churches who for various reasons are struggling. The home group I host for instance has grown to 23 people when everyone attends (which is not always), and we are now seeking answers as to if we should start an evening service instead of the home group. He will answer in good time..... we also really need new leaders to be shown to us in our church, we are spread thin on the ground in all that we do at the moment. People are getting tired and we need more leaders

What is a Cowboy Church - I've heard of them, but never been to one - it sounds like great fellowship!! I'd love to visit Fez's church, too. And Axxman, I've never been to a mega church but would love to go to see what it's about!!!

[CSLewis]

I have been to a

cowboy church wedding it was ... Different. Not my cup of tea - baptism in a horse trough ? No thanks.

[Believer1997]

I have been to a

cowboy church wedding it was ... Different. Not my cup of tea - baptism in a horse trough ? No thanks.

A baptism at a wedding - well, that's a little different. Horse trough or marble pool - as long as Jesus is present and your commitment strong, it matters not.

[CSLewis]

No baptism at the wedding- I just saw it there- didn't mean to insinuate that- not my cup of tea but don't see anything wrong with it - but I do with the story here - the gambling with the tithe shows indiscretion in my opinion. I don't go to a traditional church because I like the music but I go to glorify God with songs and hymns that glorify Him. If we start to go to church in order that we may get something then we are not there for the right reason- whether that is money or to receive special prayer or hear music we like,

Really Id rather be in a church that has five members who came together to worship Him and glorify Him than 2600 member church trying to win the lottery.